Search the Community

Re-playing this, I had a lot of issues with blackjacking them. Not just when they're squatting down, also when they're standing or walking. 9 out of 10 blackjack attempts failed. But then, blackjacking is the #1 issue of The Dark Mod in general anyway. It just doesn't work well. Seemed to be even (quite a bit) worse with the apebeasts though.

@MirceaKitsune I don't say this to be discouraging, but a developer has already responded that replacing the AA in the game is not arbitrary and has no ETA so not sure what else you are looking for? Even if the engine is overhauled to the point TAA is an option, there is still no perfect AA solution. The image quality of the most modern games often reveals shortcomings under scrutiny - there are always trade offs. So how helpful is your suggestion which paraphrased is basically: "we need a bespoke AA solution that cheaply provides perfect results" when it comes to actually solving this problem? In a game where the image is typically dark and there isn't much high frequency detail it does not take much AA to provide an acceptable image in 95% of circumstances imo. It is we mappers who ultimately control what you are seeing in a given mission, and these scenes in SLL are very brightly lit with large volumetric light volumes. This for example reveals a lot of limitations in the resolution of shadow maps for these lights and presents normal map interactions that are not typical for the game, all that were quite obvious in development. Ultimately we liked the overall effect, so we accepted the trade offs. While there will always be room for improvement and advancements (just look at the VL light quality improvements coming from 2.10 to 2.11) it is that overall presentation, including those compromises, that is what real time game art is all about.

It is odd, they haven't created a mission where the only way into a Fort Knox style Gold Bar Repository is to swim through the sewers up the pipe and crawl out of the toilet. Wasn't there a sewer in the very first level of Thief The Dark Project?

Which specific Dark Radiant features are involved with that screengrab?

Had to backpeddle on Vertigo after all the features added in the latest Dark Radiant release. Here is an image of the FM utilizing some of these features.

Of course, it is one of the reasons for the decline of online forums, since the advent of mobile phones. Forums on a mobile are a pain in the ass, but on the other hand, for certain things there are no real alternatives to forums, social networks cannot be with their sequential threads, where it is almost impossible to retrieve answers to a question that is asked. has done days ago. For devs for internal communication, the only thing offered is a collaborative app, such as System D (not to be confused with systemd). FOSS, free and anonymous registration, access further members only by invitation, full encrypted and private. https://www.system-d.org

Ignoring is somewhat inadequate as you still see other members engaging in a discussion with the problematic user, and as Wellingtoncrab says such discussions displace all other content within that channel. Moderation is also imperfect as being unpleasant to engage with is not in itself banworthy, so there is nothing more to do if such people return to their old behaviour after a moderator had a talk with them, except live with it or move away. I'd be more willing to deal with it if it felt like there were more on-topic discussion, i.e. thoughts about recently played fan missions or mappers showcasing their progress, rather than a stream of consciousness about a meta topic that may or not have to do with TDM. I guess the forums already serve the desired purpose, or they just compartmentalise discussions better.

I am most definitely still working on the FM. I do not plan on giving up, considering it is a personal passion project. I would assume the layout is 75% complete. I'm slightly deviating with other FM's I'm working on (Vertigo), to keep me from burning out. Unfortunatley there are days where I simply do not have the time to mess with Radiant.. (life can take wild turns).. that is simply the only reason why it is taking me a melania. I hope one day everyone can enjoy the FM as much as I enjoy creating it.

@snatcher did you play the FM? @computertech82 Your review is almost identical to that of the other review bomber, neonstyle, who didn't play the FM for even 5 seconds but who noclipped to an area where he airdropped before the same door which confounds you. How did you get to that door if you didn't use a rope arrow in the vents? If you were a bit observant and were actually trying to play the FM you might've noticed that the building with that confounding door has two floors, the second of which is ringed by a wooden balustrade where a well placed rope arrow (!!) allows the nimble or even not so very nimble player an entrance to a hall where there's a shooting gallery of open windows to use the water arrows (the player should have 20 or more of them by now) to extinguish the confounding torches. There's also a keyed (!!! how awful !!!) door up there where the thoughtful player might expect a key might be snagged from off the ass of one of the guards sitting up ahead playing poker. That allows the easiest entrance. But oh what the hell. Once targeted by bombers ever targeted and there's nothing to do about it. In a post above I appended an edit to a response to vozka that, since it was an edit, probably went unnoticed so I'll repeat it here since it's really my last word for the time being, given my circumstances of having to learn how to edit all over again (yes, I found myself in a situation where I lost the ability to do even basics like change the ambient light setting! and a lot of the necessary fixes are difficult). @vozka I can now give a more coherent reply and I'm recovering nicely. I agree with every point of the critique and I'm in a quandary about how I should go about applying fixes. I think your preamble to the actual critique shows an exact understanding of what I was attempting to do in the FM. You understand that it is story driven. You understood the main elements of the story, that basically a farm boy of pagan background entrusts himself with a mission. His village needs help. Because he's earned a certain bad reputation and fits the bills requirement for having daring and a certain amount of cunning, so the mission is a natural fit; also amongst other things he wants to earn himself a good name. He has friends to help him along the way, and makes friends of friends along the road of the pagans. The FM uses devices to distinguish the pagans from the enemy they face and divides the space into distinct enemy and pagan areas, and areas in between. The pagans are opposed by corrupt nobles and their army of fundamentalist Builders, as corrupt as the nobles they serve. It's very black and white. Then there's the city guard who, being ousted from real power by the Builders are resentful and won't help the Builders and will ignore the player unless attacked or the player is caught trespassing in their inner court. That's about it. The critique mentions some gameplay elements that detract from the story and I agree about those. It also mentions gameworld failings that interfere with enjoyment, with gameflow and immersion. It seems to me that to fix these flaws will require a total rewrite of the FM, rebuilding the entire thing. For example, I understand the problems mentioned w.r.t. the lighting and know how to fix them, or at least bandage them over so technically there's no apparent problem. But I have a notion that the not so apparent problem here is in what's being lit. That there should be a rearrangement of things so light can be more focused and contrasted with the dark. I'm only starting to think through ways that I might do this. Needless to say anything like this would take time, probably a year, and I'm not sure whether I'm up to it. I've been playing a new mission by Kingsal and know I haven't anything near that level of skill. IMO the FM is unplayable right now. Actually I had asked that it be removed from the TDM database. I don't like the idea of leaving a blot. Thank you again.

I don't recall a system for noise masking. It sounds like it'd be a good idea, but when you get into the details you realize it'd be complicated to implement. It's not only noise that that goes into it, I think. E.g., a high register can cut through even a loud but low register rumble. And it's not like the .wav file even has data on the register of what it's playing. So either you have to add meta-data (which is insane), or you have to have a system to literally check pitch on the .wav data and paramaterize it in time to know when it's going to cut through what other parameters from other sounds. For that matter, it doesn't even have the data on the loudness either, so you'd have to get that off the file too and time the peaks with the "simultaneous" moment at arbitrary places in every other sound file correctly. And then position is going to matter independently for each AI. So it's not like you can have one computation that works the same for all AI. You'd have to compute the masking level for each one, and then you get into the expense you're mentioning. I know there was a long discussion about it in the internal forums, and probably on the public subforums too, but it's been so long ago now I can't even remember the gist of them. Anyway the main issue is I don't know if you'll find a champion that wants to work on it. But if you're really curious to see how it might work, you could always try your hand at coding & implementing it. Nothing beats a good demo to test an idea in action. And there's no better way to learn how to code than a little project like that. I always encourage people to try to implement an idea they have, whether or not it may be a good idea, just because it shows the power of an open source game. We fans can try anything we want and see if it works!

On a separate note, does the stealth score behave as expected now? 2.11 had some fixes regarding detections by guards in dark places and civilians.

You should check your brightness and gamma settings then. If you can't see the blackjack or other weapons, you definitely set it too dark. If you didn't know it already, the pre-installed Training Mission has a section where you can set brightness and gamma.

Which one? A Machine for Pigs? It's unfortunately the weakest part of the series (pretty dumbed down gameplay and incomprehensible story), and, it also wasn't developed by the original developer which developed The Dark Descent, Rebirth, and, now, The Bunker. The also did Penumbra, which is really great (seriously, I highly recommend that if you like Amnesia), and SOMA.

https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/videos/the-way-to-black-heart-manor It looks like the original video might be lost or very buried, but here's some details for it. Posted September 9, 2008 6:43 duration 720x576 resolution "The Way To Black Heart Manor" TDM_BLACKHEART.avi Just kidding, it works on ModDB, the first browser I tried didn't load it. https://cdn.dbolical.com/cache/videos/mods/1/4/4000/encode720p_mp4/TDM_BLACKHEART.avi.mp4 I downloaded. >100 MB, a bloated re-encode of the ~50 MB original. Same 720x576 res.

The mystery is solved, because I just tested it on the Bafford mission. I only engaged with one guard; clubbed him to death with the blackjack, and then knocked him out while his death animation was still playing (this is slightly qwerky to pull off and is generally more likely to occur in dark areas). But it registers as both a KO and a kill on the stats screen, in spite of the fact that it was the same guard and he was killed before he was knocked out! lol

The Unofficial Patch you can get from the ModDB link below. The stat is a paper size window, but it will only stay open a short time, so you might need to change that to be permanent for your setup... https://www.moddb.com/mods/the-dark-mod/addons/the-dark-mod-unofficial-patch

I'm using the version from kcghost. I just tested and I can't see any difference inside the inventory. On the stats itself it doesn't show the different loot types (still seen in the inventory), but instead gives more info on stealth score. Edit: I see Dragofer made an updated version of his script. I have to check that out. Edit2: That version works: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=21272&key=02755164a3bed10498683771fe9a0453

TDM was never meant to be fully realistic, it would become impossibly difficult were that the case. None the less I still find myself wishing more could be done to make AI feel less like AI, especially when handling hostile encounters (usually the player). While like most aspects this could never be truly perfect, one area feels like it could be noticeably improved: Giving AI some form of long term memory, rather than just one alert level which goes back to zero after a short time. Here is the reason why I'm saying this: Walk inside your average heavily guarded mansion and step into the bright lights, making all the guards clearly see you and chase after you to attack. Once you've had enough fun repeating the process, hide somewhere and give everyone enough time to cool down. At the end of it all, hide somewhere in the shadows where you can barely be seen and let a guard walk past you: The guard will just say "is there something over there", at best waiting a few seconds and saying "probably just the shadows" before walking away... the same man that may have chased after you for 30 minutes and should by any logic know an intruder is still in the house, I mean come on Now I'm aware we have a basic persistence system: If I remember correctly an AI that's encountered the player and was alerted enough to draw their sword will have its acuity permanently increased by a slight amount. This however makes no noticeable difference as the AI behaves mostly the same. They'll keep telling fellow AI an intruder is in the area, this definitely helps but it's only a dialogue change not accompanied by noticeable modifications in behavior as you'd expect. Obviously massive modifications might be hard to do now without upsetting existing players since it would make everything harder. As such any such attempt would likely be an experiment and, if successful, a new menu option for the difficulty settings. Still I felt like suggesting my imagined solution just in case there's a point in considering tackling this. My idea: Replace the one-time bump in acuity with a paranoia level independent from the alert level... think of the existing alert system as short-term alert and the new one as long-term alert. The standard alert level of guards is slowly added to their paranoia level, thus the more time a guard spends being alert and the higher that alert is the more fear increases. Paranoia level may be allowed to decrease over time but at a far slower rate than the alert level: If an alert guard will typically take 3 minutes to fully calm down after losing track of the player, the paranoia level should take at least 30 if not 60 (real life) minutes to fully go down to minimum... even then it shouldn't drop below a certain degree after that point was reached, for instance just 50% of the maximum paranoia. This long-term fear level would have several effects on an AI as they patrol on their normal route... the ones I've thought about are: Increased acuity as they'll be more alert. This system would replace the existing simple bump we have in that regard, with a more fluid effect and also stronger effect. Increased playing of voices and idle animations: Due to being afraid the guard may talk to themselves or others a lot more frequently and babble excessively. Walking could be replaced by running for a while, even on path nodes that don't have the run flag. The AI would still patrol that same route just at a faster pace. As a map feature set by FM's: Some path nodes can be filtered by fear level, may already be possible with the simple system but I never tried it. An AI paranoid the player is still around but having resumed their normal patrol route may choose to patrol a more sensitive area it normally wasn't going to, which would be a fair way of punishing the player for being seen by having that AI start guarding a sensitive location from then on. If the paranoia level is allowed to slowly decrease, the guard may decide to go back on this decision... the player could then do something else for 15 minutes around the map till the guard abandons the paranoid patrol route. Here's an idea I like: AI randomly getting scared for no reason, thinking they see the player in every shadow even when there's nothing there. A scared guard normally walking on their patrol route would randomly become alert for no reason, typically when walking through a dark area, causing them to draw their sword or randomly run around for a second. The problem here is this effect would be random: Imagine you're hiding accordingly but a guard randomly freaks out and bumps into you, most players would find this unfair.

I looked but didn't see this video posted in these forums. It's pretty cool.

I mentioned this in a similar thread on TTLG. If there's going to be a new Thief game, my vote is for a remake of the original Dark Project.

I was thinking about the new gameplay in next Thief game because I think it should be improved along A.I. I would like Thief has blunt arrows which he can shoot first guard in the below knee area. Thief shoots from the dark shadow so he's not seen. Guard tumbles down, then stands up and he sees second guard and thinks the guard pranked him with the blunt arrow. This could lead to intense gameplay and funny dialogue. G#1: "You shot me with the arrow." G#2: "No I didn't." G#1: "But we're the only ones in the room." Garret is in the shadows and yellow is vision cone of the first guard who tumbled down.

After a long time waiting for the right moment, here's a remastered playthrough of Requiem, which happens to be my 100th video covering The Dark Mod:

It wasn't a "sacrifice", it was a deliberate decision. People wanted the game to be as close as possible to the original, including pixelated graphics. If you ask me, the former version based on the Unity engine looked and felt better. But, hey... I guess I'm not the right person to judge that, as I never played the original, and always found that the art style of System Shock 2 is much better anyway. This also illustrates the issue with community funded games: Too many cooks spoil the broth. In game design, you need freedom, not thousands of people who want you to do this and this and that. Just take a look at the Steam forums and see how all those wimps complain again about everything. Hopeless.

So giving it none of those tags, but making the AI invisible, silent, non-solid, and on a team neutral to everyone would not work? Oh well, it was a horrible inelegant idea anyway.

What I understood is that the idea of TDM was born from that it was unclear if T3 would get a level editor at the time. Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20050218173856/http://evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268