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What happens if you frob something while carrying a body? Will the body be dropped at the same time? If so I suggest to go with that chakkman wrote and revert the setup: short frob pulls a body and extinguishes a light and long frob takes the body and the light and also drops both while short frobing works on everything else at the same time.

This pinned thread's purpose is to collect links to all the discussion threads for new features to be added in 2.12: [2.12] Multi-addons support [2.12] Auto-search bodies [2.12] Turrets Allow mantling while carrying a body New lean for 2.12 Frob to use world items [2.12] Viewpos on player HUD and screenshots English Subtitles for AI Barks Subtitle Enhancements [2.12] Improved Interaction Culling and a related bug report thread HERE As well as older feature collection threads: [2.10] Feature discussion threads [2.11] Feature discussion threads

Must say: I like the new hold-to-frob system. A bit confusing at first but far more intuitive and welcoming once you learn it. When I noticed normal frobbing keeps picking up bodies instead of dragging them I thought the FM overrode the behavior with a script, then I remembered this change being mentioned. However I believe I also found a bug that was surely introduced by it: You can now pick up and mantle the bodies of dead mice. Picking them up normally like a physical object makes sense, but now you mantle them with both hands and can't use anything else as if carrying a human AI's body... pretty sure the player could just put a dead mouse in their pocket it's not that large and heavy On my map I just placed an atdm:env_ragdoll_rat somewhere and happened to frob it: With the new default (normal delay) it triggered the mantling I'm describing on single click.

Slight necro... What would be useful is a global surface parameter that allows frob to stick to non-solid, invisible surfaces. Then it would be possible to define a material like this: textures/common/nodraw_frobable { description "used to make invisible, nonsolid brushes that nevertheless accepts frobs" qer_editorimage textures/common/nodraw_frobable.tga nonsolid noshadows allowfrob //new global surface param } Then it would be child's play to do all sorts of useful things like: * Make barred gates less irritating by painting the bars with it, so that you don't have to aim pixel-perfect at the visible geometry. Facing the gate, even looking between the bars, will do- and being non-solid you could still shoot projectiles through it. * Less messing about with atdm:target_set_frobable brushes which, let's face it, are finicky and often don't work right. If you want to block a frob, just make a func_static out of the new nodraw_frobable material and then just trigger the func_tastic to remove the frob block. * If you need a frobable shape for an object that differs significantly from its visible shape or collision surface, a frob_peer made of this would be perfect. Regular nodraw doesn't work, and the various clips are pretty gunky for this purpose.

Boosting performance by replacing frob material stages with a shader (very first post) sounds like an improvement but gameplay-wise the issue perhaps is something else. People got used to the current frob highlight and the fact that after 15 pages there is no consensus (or even middle ground) makes me wonder if a frob outline or even a different frob highlight color is the solution we want. I found a kind of exploit and I am trying to do something different - if only as a proof of concept - but boy there is a difference between what you plan in your head versus what you actually see (and feel) on screen

I did play Thief and FMs, but I don't play it any more, except for major things like Black Parade. The clunky movement and antiquated Dromed editor is what discouraged me from interacting with it over the years. I regularly play and sometimes make content for TDM, because it has much better movement model than Thief. I know that most missions don't use it well, but if you construct your geometry (gaps, ledges, distances) using power of two measurements, movement and mantling feels fast and snappy. There's no need for regression in that regard, in my opinion, there's a need for assets and missions made with the movement model in mind, to showcase its strengths properly. Even if TDM originally intended to "simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief, many things will be familiar to veteran Thief players" the actual mod history was a bit different. The team came up with a mission platform that has its own identity when it comes to mechanics. The way assets were made might have been a huge mistake, but that didn't prevent the platform from growing. Since you like anecdotal evidence, noone other Skacky once said that TDM movement model was super clunky, after playing The Painter's Wife. It was really hard to convince him that if a mapper places geometry this poorly, and isn't aware what spatial measurements play to the strengths of a movement model, no movement model will save his mission. And there is no fixing of this problem on the engine side, although it's not the first time when TDM team tries to address the asset problem with engine changes, which I suspect will ultimately lead to even more problems down the line. In game development, things like core mechanics and player tools are locked-down first, in one of the pre-production phases, because all the levels will be constructed around them. Making changes in core mechanics in a project this mature is very risky, I assume you don't plan on going through all playable spaces in all released TDM FMs to check for errors. Instead of making incremental changes in fundamental mechanics, I'd encourage you to create a fork, or some kind of major version bump candidate, like 3.0, where all things could be revamped: movement, player tools, UI, new frob mechanics, perhaps with UI contextual icons, new training map to incorporate all that, etc. Once all new elements fall into place and create something new, with a map or maps to back it up as relevant changes, it will be easier to convince existing player/author base that it was worth it. I assume the existing fanbase is already fragmented, as a result of all those heated discussions around the topic. But with multiple versions available for download, the transition to hypothetical "TDM 3.0" should be easier. It could be similar to UE2 and UE3, and you could also use this as an occasion to draw the line for backwards compatibility. I know there are old systems and variables kept in place just in order not to break existing missions. This way you could e.g. redo the LOD system, implement lights using math functions instead of textures, etc.

No, I remembered the old system, but I also was using my patch so I suspected at first I messed something up before I remembered that the handling of bodies and lights are so counter intuitive right now. I could easily add my own patch solution to make extinguishing lights short frob again, but I would rather see a consistent version of it in the core game! To provide some background information, I had just finished both the Cyberpunk DLC and The Outer Worlds DLCs, both of which use short-use and long-use systems too so my mindset somehow was expecting something more consistent ;).

There's a bug I've been noticing for a long time, but for some reason it didn't click with me to mention it till someone else just mentioned seeing the same thing and I realized I'm not the only one. The contents of some chests and small containers like drawers will sometimes not become frobable when you open that container: You may need to close the door and open it again, after which you can frob any scrolls / keys / etc inside. Most likely something is happening with target_setfrobable getting triggered at the wrong time. Even when they are frobable, tiny items in small containers will sometimes only highlight from a very specific position and angle: I've had cases where I needed to lean forward and look at a coin just right and it would only highlight when my crosshair was on that one pixel. I'm sorry I didn't think to note down a FM and viewpos where to test it; If you need I'll keep that mind for when I play the next one. This doesn't happen a lot any might be hard to catch, but often enough as to be noticeable... in most recent FM's it seems to occur at least once in some drawer or lockbox.

It's enabled by default in 2.12. Most players will keep it, I guess. On second thought I think we better not. The text on frob servers three purposes: Get to know the name of AI (if any) without the need of shouldering. Get to know the status (KO/Dead) of AI without the need of shouldering. Get to know if something is in the grabber, but this is minor, and it could only be considered a feature if all objects had a proper name. The player triggers the text with his/her actions. If we do it on highlight then it is us who is triggering it, and the player may or may not want it displayed at that moment. Back on topic, Yeah, this is something I noticed too. I like this idea very much. I think it could work. Also, a new arg for mappers: on_death_tongue_out.

I believe TDM takes a minimalistic approach to he HUD, which I think is a good idea since we prefer realism and focusing on the environment rather than having icons and indicators everywhere. Something like modifying the frob helper crosshair when looking at a body could work though, eg: Empty circle when AI is dead or the normal white dot when alive. It works that way by default yeah, it's what I was referring to: If you pick up a body the text confirms it, will say "person" or "person's body" accordingly. It does require picking up and moving the AI: A solution might be the text appearing just by highlighting the body, still relies on the HUD confirming it but that would be like checking the AI's pulse so it works.

You can look at the andersarken mask pedestal in an attic in The Painter's Wife. It has multiple ways of placing the mask on the pedestal: - Use the mask on the pedestal - Frob the pedestal while the mask is selected - Possibly also holding the mask near the pedestal (this is based on stim/response). Might not be implemented in this example, though. Seeking Lady Leicester also has similar setups wherever you can use the torc.

Approach the body and frob it, available in the TDM Modpack & the Unofficial Patch for some time now. (Not really useful in 2.12 with default settings)

DarkRadiant 3.8.0 is ready for download. What's new: Feature: Support new frob-related material keywords Improvement: Mission selection list in Game setup is not alphabetically sorted Improvement: Better distinction between inherited and regular spawnargs Improvement: Silence sound shader button Improvement: Add Reload Definitions button to Model Chooser Fixed: Model Selector widgets are cut off and flicker constantly on Linux Fixed: DarkRadiant will not start without Dark Mod plugins Fixed: GenericEntityNode not calculating the direction correctly with "editor_rotatable" Fixed: RenderableArrow not drawing the tip correctly for arbitrary rotations Fixed: Light Inspector crashes on Linux Fixed: Models glitch out when filtering then showing them Fixed: Skin Editor: models not centered well in preview Fixed: "Copy Resource Path" includes top level folders Fixed: Skin Editor: internal test skins are shown if Material Editor was open previously Fixed: Changing Game/Project doesn't update loaded assets correctly Fixed: Model Chooser: initially hidden materials aren't revealed when enabling them Fixed: Choosing AI entity class 'atdm:townsfolk_commoner_update' causes crash Fixed: Sporadic assertion failure on shutdown due to LocalBitmapArtProvider destruction Fixed: Prefab Selector spams infinite error dialogs on Linux Windows and Mac Downloads are available on Github: https://github.com/codereader/DarkRadiant/releases/tag/3.8.0 and of course linked from the website https://www.darkradiant.net Thanks to all the awesome people who keep using DarkRadiant to create Fan Missions - they are the main reason for me to keep going. Please report any bugs or feature requests here in these forums, following these guidelines: Bugs (including steps for reproduction) can go directly on the tracker. When unsure about a bug/issue, feel free to ask. If you run into a crash, please record a crashdump: Crashdump Instructions Feature requests should be suggested (and possibly discussed) here in these forums before they may be added to the tracker. The list of changes can be found on the our bugtracker changelog. Keep on mapping!

I would rather have an icon show the status of the body when it is frob-highlighted. So a skull icon or an healthy face with closed eyes icon, for example.

One clearly defined entity that can only be used with frob on another clearly defined entity?

I think that was directed at me, as I usually argue for the new control scheme (albeit with some modifications). I liked that post because it contained some valid points of criticism: Especially the first point frequently happened to me. Yes, the new frob-to-loot feature is there to help, but I still sometimes accidentally shouldered a body.

If the "mission fails as soon as stealth score turns non-zero," that would not be good for ghost players. They might need to find out "how" they failed and experiment to avoid alerting guards. They might need to take those score points as a "bust". They might need to take those score points to complete an objective. Then, mission authors would need to encode exceptions into their missions, which would be a lot of work (if they decide to do it at all). However, part of what makes ghosting challenging and fun is when mission authors do not create their missions with ghosting in mind. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Writing code for these rules would be a huge undertaking. Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Creating an official mode could alienate these dedicated ghost players, because it would clash with what is considered ghosting in the community. Including the Stealth Stat Tool mod in the official release would be more useful. Or, making the audible alert states of guards quick and easy to recognize could help as well. For these reasons, I don't agree with an official "Ghost" mode. If the dev team were to do it, we should consult with @Klatremus so we get it 100% correct or not pursue it at all. (This ghosting bit should probably be in its own thread.)

The time has finally come for me to release my 5th mission for The Dark Mod. This project started sometime around 2015-2016 (couldn't find any old files to confirm) with me starting poking on a city mission and for some time I built quite randomly without a plan. I expected I could plot a story later; You can never go wrong with a city section, eh? I had a hiatus and did other projects in my life with model painting and skydiving and mapping became more and more scarce. Now and then I felt an itch to map and some kind of responsibility towards the mod team to produce something, to provide and give something back, if you will. At the start of the pandemic I started building more focused on this misson, but still no exact goal on what I wanted to achieve. Finally I decided I wanted a mission where you follow a person and the mission continued to grow in a linear fashion. I am not the quickest mapper and have severe problems on how to imagine a scene without building it first. This means that I often have to redo scenes and lots of stuff gets unnecessarily built just to be removed later, hence the almost absurd build time (about 1900 hours all in all). Betatesting came about and I got very good tips and feedback and decided to redo a lot of the mission. This need for a rework could have killed my motivation but fortunately, as the map was designed, it only required a modest amount of work and the mission became so much better for it! Sometimes I believe I'm somewhat of the uncrowned king of missions with a bit more unusual and experimental playstyles and this mission also have some elements that isn't used that much. In contrast to some of my other missions though, this one isn't depending on any quirky meter or sun shining down on the player (Reap as you sow *cough*). As mentioned, it is a sprawling city mission with lots of exploring that I hope will satisfy you! So DeTeEff gives to you: Who Watches The Watcher? ver 1.0 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YYoJJnxr2UbGxemTR-WoWmH64fbazusH/view?usp=sharing The night is creeping over Bridgeport. You squint in the street lights as you trot down the small alley to where you're about to meet your contact. As a man who straddles the line between lawful and outlaw, it's not often you have peaceful interactions with the City watch but as you're about to learn, this time they have more problems on their hands than to deal with petty thieves like yourself. You see the trademark silhouette of a City watch helmet approaching and you make a last take of your immediate surroundings, should you have to flee if things get awry. The guard presents himself as Albert and you listen carefully to his story and you quickly realise that you don't have much to fear from this man; The Citywatch has wrestled with some internal problems lately with missing reports and evidence that disappear. Albert strongly believes they have a mole on the inside that works for the Greynard RoughBoys; a band of ruthless thugs that doesn't hesitate to maim anyone who oppose them. You learn that he thinks the mole is no other than a Sergeant named Clerwick. Your mission will be to find this man, and collect intelligence on his doings for the night. And as it is payday, you should of course also help the inhabitants to carry some of their heavy purses. Mission type: Creepy elements? Undead? Spiders? Thanks to: My wonderful girlfriend who endures my constant talking about mapping and for helping me with readables and story design and some voice lines. Dragofer - Scripting help Springheel - All those modules Sotha - Hangman model Henrik Swenson for providing some ambients Digiffects Sound Library for some custom sound bites Betatesters: Acolytesix Datiswous Duzenko Jaxa Mezla Nort Prjames Shadow Thebigh Wellingtoncrab Wesp5 And a big thank you to the community for keeping the mod alive! I hope I haven't forgotten anyone... Known bugs: -The AI in TDM is inaccurate in some ways. They will sometimes behave strangely when returning to their original routes after being alerted, like sitting on chairs in weird ways or turning in places, especially if they meet another AI in narrow places. I have done my best to adjust these weird behaviours but with the complexity of everything that's going on and the player making different desicions/noise, it's probably impossible to adjust for everything. I believe I have ironed out the last wrinkles I can, with respect to my knowledge/skills. -Frobbing out of boxes/chests/drawers has always been a pain but I think this is largely an error within the code and how frobing works as the frob highlight wants to lock onto the box itself and not its contents. -There seems to be some kind of bug with the skybox, especially in places where there is water reflections present; The Sky/water volume switch between an opaque variant to a more translucent one. Neither is straight up ugly, but it's jarring to see the sky switch (as it seems randomly). I don't know what is causing this, and I have decided to let this one pass (if any players knows what is causing this, please let me know so can I squash this annoying bug. PLEASE POST ANY QUESTIONS/SPOILERS IN SPOILER BRACKETS

With TDM 2.12, after the credits finished, the "Mission Complete" screen did not display. I found that the screen was black and I could hear my footsteps when I tried to move around. I think the reason for the mission not completing successfully was that the "Do not kill or harm allies" objective was never marked as "1 = STATE_COMPLETE" instead it was left as "0 = STATE_INCOMPLETE". Note, I didn't use noclip throughout the mission. Same as: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18054-fan-mission-the-accountant-2-new-in-town-by-goldwell-20160509/&do=findComment&comment=458491

How about using TDM automation framework (and maybe pcem/qemu)? More info see: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/19828-automation-features-and-discussion/

It's in the brothel(?) More precisely, it's on the top floor windowsill, but you can't see it unless you have frob helper on.

I don't know if it's mentioned anywhere else on the Wiki, but it's worth mentioning that the first global keywords are for sound: // Use on of the predefined surface types like: // none, metal, stone, flesh, glass, wood stone And this: //surftype15 //description "carpet This is a carpet texture." I think this is sound as well, but I also think 'description' does other stuff, for example for using with vine arrows: stone description "vine_friendly" If someone has a list (or link to code) where all this is defined for TDM so mappers are aware, that would be useful. I would also move the 'special keywords' section up so it's before the obsolete stuff - that old stuff needs to be relegated to the very bottom. I would also change the title of that section from 'No ambient and frob -stages needed' to something like 'Deprecated stages' and say it's just there for historical reference.

Never mind, I was able to get it without cheats now. You have to lean forward and run on the far left side, repeatedly pushing the frob key. Occasionally, you dip down between the bags and that's when you can manage to take it. Still, a longer frob distance and making the bottle more visible is probably smart.

It is confusing. The first example shouldn't have the frob highlight section in it, and a note should be added to the text saying the example is for version 2.11 and greater. The subsequent stages should be under a different heading clearly labelled as being deprecated/obsolete and they are only there for reference.