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No idea. What I meant was just that leaning can expose you (a lot) depending on the lighting, so presumably you won't get "invisible shots" with the new lean. I haven't tried it yet, so I could be wrong, but that's probably the case. On a side note, personally I don't like that as it is that much. Getting so exposed makes leaning so useless in so many situations... I'm always scared of leaning because of that. I think it's one of those realism vs gameplay things where I'd rather favor gameplay. So much about hiding in shadows and sneaking is hyper unrealistic anyway. But favoring the player usually makes a more gratifying gameplay. Like when you're making a 2D game and you make the player hit box smaller than the sprite, to make it more forgiving and less frustrating.

To cater to both audiences. I mentioned LibreGameWiki as one example. nbohr1more mentioned other uses. Explicitly allowing reuse and spread will help TDM reach a wider audience and would hopefully attract more volunteers. More volunteers which can help improve both TDM versions. There are several benefits for a project of being in the Debian repo. One is that TDM Debian-users can report defects on any package directly to Debian (no need to register on separate forums). Debian may then fix the issue themselves (in their "TDM-libre" package) and will offer the patch upstream to TDM, who can then choose to accept or reject the patch. I envision "TDM-libre" to have the same capability of downloading any mission as regular TDM. The only difference is that "TDM-libre" would come packaged with the regular engine (which is GPL+BSD) and an included mission that has libre media/gamedata. When I play TDM by myself, I want the unlimited-play and can accept commercial restrictions. But if I were to promote it somewhere, or charge for a stream when playing online, or make a video, I would want a version without commercial restrictions (and can temporarily accept limited-play) to make sure I don't violate anyone's copyright. Perhaps. That's what I'm trying to find out.

I suggest you use the term "I", to make clear that it is something YOU want, and that you speak for yourself. But, as wesp5 mentioned, I don't really know what this is about, at all. And, I'm also wondering about all the newly registered people lately, who just arrived at this forum, and already want to revolutionize this mod. This is a thing I noticed 2 or 3 years ago, and which hasn't been present in the 15 years I play this mod and frequent these forums now. Really seems like a common thing these days, to not knock on the door, but kick it in, and stomp right in.

I did play Thief and FMs, but I don't play it any more, except for major things like Black Parade. The clunky movement and antiquated Dromed editor is what discouraged me from interacting with it over the years. I regularly play and sometimes make content for TDM, because it has much better movement model than Thief. I know that most missions don't use it well, but if you construct your geometry (gaps, ledges, distances) using power of two measurements, movement and mantling feels fast and snappy. There's no need for regression in that regard, in my opinion, there's a need for assets and missions made with the movement model in mind, to showcase its strengths properly. Even if TDM originally intended to "simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief, many things will be familiar to veteran Thief players" the actual mod history was a bit different. The team came up with a mission platform that has its own identity when it comes to mechanics. The way assets were made might have been a huge mistake, but that didn't prevent the platform from growing. Since you like anecdotal evidence, noone other Skacky once said that TDM movement model was super clunky, after playing The Painter's Wife. It was really hard to convince him that if a mapper places geometry this poorly, and isn't aware what spatial measurements play to the strengths of a movement model, no movement model will save his mission. And there is no fixing of this problem on the engine side, although it's not the first time when TDM team tries to address the asset problem with engine changes, which I suspect will ultimately lead to even more problems down the line. In game development, things like core mechanics and player tools are locked-down first, in one of the pre-production phases, because all the levels will be constructed around them. Making changes in core mechanics in a project this mature is very risky, I assume you don't plan on going through all playable spaces in all released TDM FMs to check for errors. Instead of making incremental changes in fundamental mechanics, I'd encourage you to create a fork, or some kind of major version bump candidate, like 3.0, where all things could be revamped: movement, player tools, UI, new frob mechanics, perhaps with UI contextual icons, new training map to incorporate all that, etc. Once all new elements fall into place and create something new, with a map or maps to back it up as relevant changes, it will be easier to convince existing player/author base that it was worth it. I assume the existing fanbase is already fragmented, as a result of all those heated discussions around the topic. But with multiple versions available for download, the transition to hypothetical "TDM 3.0" should be easier. It could be similar to UE2 and UE3, and you could also use this as an occasion to draw the line for backwards compatibility. I know there are old systems and variables kept in place just in order not to break existing missions. This way you could e.g. redo the LOD system, implement lights using math functions instead of textures, etc.

TDM is marketed as: It's a tremendous achievement - a detailed tribute to the Thief series. (link) Since The Dark Mod is designed to simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief, many things will be familiar to veteran Thief players. (link) It should be of no surprised when folks suggest making a change to TDM that fits more closely with Thief when it makes sense. The majority of active TDM players and mission authors I see today are also Thief players. And, besides the folks here on this forum, there aren't many places where the dev team can get player feedback on TDM, especially players who gave up on playing TDM all together. The Thief (including TTLG) community is one of the only places where we can get feedback in general and from veterans of this stealth game type. Feedback I received from a player: This is great news for our community. For our community, more players increase the likelihood of more devs, mission authors, and content creators. For the content creators, more players experience the content they make. That said, I think most agree that TDM is not meant be a 1:1 copy of Thief, and that's a good thing. Changes to TDM should be carefully considered and playtested before release. EDIT: To clarify, addressing player complaints does not mean copy Thief game mechanics. It means that when player complaints are addressed, a solution that is appropriate for TDM is implemented.

TDM has tons of textures from "free" texture resources that do not allow redistribution and cannot be incorporated into a commercial project. Someone would need to create a huge replacement pack of textures that do not break the look of existing missions and do not infringe on the copyrighted textures. Also, many artists who contributed to this project do not want 3rd party entities to use their work in commercial projects. They intended the models, textures, sounds, animations to be exclusively used for Darkmod content. You would either have to replace ALL assets or contact every contributor and ask them to re-license their assets. Many contributors are no longer active with the project and haven't visited the forums in years so it would be no easy feat. I cannot speak to Debian policy but I think that they treat installers that add non-free content the same as non-free content itself. One could argue that Steam is such an installer but I guess Debian would counter that there are a few fully Libre games on Steam. I think Debian, Ubuntu, or Linux Mint need to consider a repo that allows for games (etc) that include non-libre content but intentionally offer this content for free to the community with no stipulations other than "don't try to sell it as a product".

The gamepad implementation allows for a great degree of flexibility to personalize settings, aside from a few minor issues that I mentioned here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22337-gamepad-bindings/ I would say that playing TDM with a gamepad works very well, especially considering that it was implemented as experimental and hasn't been changed since then. If I could, I'd go back to 2021-you and congratulate you on buying that gamepad. I notice that your DarkmodPadbinds.cfg looks very different from mine...

I dom't use it, i found it here with the filter set to OpenSource. the TOS and PP isn't excluding for an OpenSource app, if they use ads mean that they also need to pay an server for this online service. OpenSource is not synonymous with free either, perhaps after the beta phase it is no longer free, so perhaps you can take advantage of the fact that it is still free to create a series of textures that can be used or search another one in Futuretools. AI generated textures and assets, by definition, don't have any copyright, so you can use them as you want. https://www.futuretools.io/?pricing-model=free|open-source&tags-n5zn=gaming

Initially wanted not to post about this, I told myself it's just another useless feature that would waste time before a release and all. But it does carry actual gameplay limitations I run into: I often have no way to tell if an enemy is dead or just knocked out. If the FM has a "don't kill anyone" objective that makes it clear, otherwise you need to pick up the body and see what the text says. In the past you could tell by their eyes: Dead AI would have them open while knocked out AI had them closed. Last time I played it seemed like even this stopped working and both cases had their eyes shut... a recent bug perhaps? In any case it's often a difficult cue to find, so I wonder if anything better would be possible. Obviously AI become ragdolls so animating any important bones is surely impossible: I'd suggest making them move slightly so it's clear they're still breathing, but this would likely send the ragdoll shaking all over the place since they probably can't handle an animation being mixed in. So here's one idea that should work great: Alongside the eyes we could have the mouth be open, which is easier to spot from a close distance. Knocked out AI have their mouth closed, dead AI have it open which is a clear cue and also looks more... well, dead. Another would be to add the snoring sound to knocked out AI... now I'm curious if in real life someone being knocked unconscious snores like when they're asleep, don't try it out of course

Thanks! 1) Doing LONG_PRESS PAD_A (what I, for lack of knowledge, call "jump-mantle" or "_jumpmantle") differs from doing PRESS PAD_A ("_jump"). "_jumpmantle" differs from "_mantle", so they must be mapped to different button-calls. "_jumpmantle" differs from "_jump", so they must also be mapped to different button-calls. This appears to be the case, but it is not evident (or changeable) in DarkmodPadbinds.cfg. "_jumpmantle" seems to be hard coded to always connect to the same button as "_jump" but with a long press. It is as if bindPadButton PRESS PAD_A "_jump" is not actually just binding PRESS PAD_A to "_jump", but rather interpreted as "link PAD_A (regardless of button press time) to behave exactly like keyboard SPACE for short and long presses". I would have expected the default DarkmodPadbinds.cfg to explicitly read: bindPadButton PRESS PAD_A "_jump" bindPadButton LONG_PRESS PAD_A "_jumpmantle" bindPadButton PRESS PAD_B "_crouch" bindPadButton LONG_PRESS PAD_B "_mantle" ... but neither LONG_PRESS PAD_A or "_jumpmantle" is listed in the file. If there are actions "_jump" and "_mantle", I suppose there must also be an action "_jumpmantle" since it is possible for the player to do all those movements: * "_mantle" does the movements "crouch on the high surface, then stand up" * "_jumpmantle" idoes the movements "jump slightly forward, then land standing on the high surface" * "_jump" idoes the movements "jump up, then land exactly where you started" If the actions "_jump" and "_moveup" are not synonymous, then perhaps the action "_moveup" is what i call "_jumpmantle"? 2) Thanks for the link! It was useful in more than one way. I'll link to that page from https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Bindings_and_User_Settings#Gamepad_Default_Bindings if I can get an account on the wiki, which proved more difficult than i thought (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/). However, it does not answer my question how to find out the name ("<button>") used for a button on my gamepad. Basically, I would need to press the button on my gamepad and some program could tell me "That button is called 'PAD_A'". In my case, I have a gamepad "Logitech F310" (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logitech_F310_Gamepad.jpg) which has a "Logitech button" (see image) that I want to use. I was hoping to find out the "button name" for that button and then edit DarkmodPadbinds.cfg to map it to a function. 3) ... but if that button has an "unusual name" that TDM does not recognize, then it may perhaps not work. E.g. if that button is called "PAD_LOGITECH" and TDM cannot recognize that name, then I cannot map anything to it via DarkmodPadbinds.cfg. Using QJoyPad I can map any keyboard key to it instead, as a workaround, but I cannot map MODIFIER to it (since MODIFIER cannot be set to a keyboard key). If current implementation is still called "experimental", then I must say it works very well; @cabalistic: kudos for that! I may not have continued playing TDM had it not worked with a gamepad.

It is possible that this is a setting that needs to be activated to work: https://mantisbt.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23221

After having trouble dragging the body where he wanted, the player said, "No. Noooo." (29:09) Player said, "I'm sorry. I'm not trying to look up there. It's just very awkward to drag bodies." (30:08) What I see is a player having trouble being stealthy while playing a stealth game, so this video just adds evidence in support of making shouldering the primary action over dragging. I never saw that he figured out how to shoulder a body. I think we are wanting to optimize for two different scenarios: One is to optimize for a stealth experience, and the other is to optimize for a "comical" experience. If I'm understanding you correctly, you have a strong fascination with body manipulation. Earlier in this thread, you stated: What you find as "comical", I see as the player suffering with the gameplay and struggling with the controls. Players have written their frustration with the pre-2.12 controls and stopped playing TDM all together. I've already seen players write about their interest in trying 2.12 based on the recent changes, which is huge. They're willing to give it another go, and that's great for our community. I am interested in watching playthrough videos and reading player experiences with the 2.12 version once released. Then, we'll be able to get more feedback about the 2.12 controls. Body manipulation is still available, and I find that it's even easier to do with the 2.12 controls. @STiFU commented something similar: @snatcher, given that body manipulation is so important to you, then I suggest creating a group and creating content about body manipulation. This could be similar to the groups that ghost or ironman the game. For example, Rule #1: Bodies must be dragged. Shouldering bodies is not allowed.

Risen 1 definitely is more like Gothic. I also played it through 2 times now, the last time a couple of days ago. Risen 2 is different, but, I find the setting and gameplay very coherent. That pirate stuff fits nicely. I'll probably also play through Risen 3 when I'm finished with part 2. I never played that one through, after always failing at the oracle spider boss last time... By the way, looks like Piranha Bytes are in a lot of trouble, and will probably be closed down: https://www.gamestar.de/artikel/piranha-bytes-gothic-elex-schliessung,3406996.html Unfortunate, but, the whole game industry seems to be quite messed up these days.

Mandrasola is a small sized map in which aspiring thief Thomas Porter steals some herbal products from a smuggler. The mission was created by me, Sotha and I wish to thank Bikerdude, BrokenArts and Ocn for playtesting and voice acting. Thanks goes naturally to everyone contributing and making TDM possible. This mission occurs chronologically before the Knighton's Manor, making it the first mission in the Thomas Porter series. Events in chronological order are: Mandrasola, The Knighton's Manor, The Beleaguered Fence, The Glenham Tower and The Transaction. The winter came early and suddenly this year. Weeks of strong blizzards and extremely harsh cold weather hit Bridgeport hard. With the seas completely frozen, a rare occurence indeed, most of the City harbor commerce has stopped completely. Vessels are stuck in the ice and no ship can leave or enter the City, resulting in the availability imported goods declining and their prices skyrocketing. One of these imported items is Mandrasola, a rare herbal product, which is imported overseas from the far southern continents. Mandrasola has its uses in alchemical cures and poisons, but mostly this substance is used for its narcotic qualities by commoners and even the nobility. The problem with Mandrasola is that excessive use is extremely addicting and the withdrawal effects are most grievious. Many are utterly incapable of stopping using Mandrasola and are transformed into quivering human ruins if they do no get their daily dose. And now this expensive and rare substance is running out from the whole City. Me and my fence, Lark Butternose, would love to grab this monopoly to ourselves: selling the last few doses in the City would probably be worth a fortune. According to Lark's sources, there remains only one smuggling lord who still has Mandrasola in stock. The problem is that this individual maintains an exclusive clandestine operation and only supplies a few nobles. Despite our best information gathering efforts we couldn't learn who the smuggler is and where he or she operates. Luckily we have an alternate plan. While searching for Mandrasola related information, we learned that a noblewoman called Lady Ludmilla is addicted to the substance and has paid high prices for small amounts of it. We also know that she has visited frequently someone in the Tanner's Ward waterfront, and since she goes to the area personally we believe she is visiting the smuggler. The plan is simple: I must monitor Ludmilla's most likely entryway to the Waterfront and then follow her to the smugglers hideout. I'd better be very careful around Ludmilla. She must not realise I'm following her or she probably won't lead me to her dealer. Hurting her is also out of the question. After she leads me to the smuggler's hideout, I can take my time to break in carefully and steal all the Mandrasola I can find. While I'm there it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab some loose valuables as well. I've now waited in the blistering cold for a few hours already. Looks like there are a few city watch patrols in the area to complicate matters... I think I heard a womans voice beyond the north gate. That must be lady Ludmilla, I haven't seen many ladies in these parts. I'd better get ready.. Links: Use the ingame downloader to get it. WARNING! Someone always fails to use spoiler tags. I do not recommend reading any further until you've played the mission.

I am going to sort-of reveal that this is loosely like the nature of my upcoming mission. I noted it here when JackFarmer asked about things that are coming along in this post: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/profile/37993-jackfarmer/&status=3943&type=status It too is a builder church. The player is requested by a hopefully famous character in another mission to handle some business that is affecting the congregation. I am looking to invoke some info and history laid down in other missions as a hook story.

I created the page: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Lightgem In the source I placed the following text: <!-- Page text made by forum user Fiver: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/&do=findComment&comment=491145 --> Personally I think the page isn't really necessary because the info is already present under HUD.

Summary Greetings dear friends! To celebrate the tenth anniversary of the release of my FM, I have published a (hopefully) worthy update to it. Version 2 of my FM called "Sneak & Destroy" uses many new features that have been added to TDM over the years, fixes numerous bugs that were overlooked at the time, but the FM still remains true to the original one. So if you had problems playing this FM lately, if you never played this FM or if you wish to revisit a tiny but lovely part of the TDM history, this update is for you! Download the latest version via the in-game downloader and celebrate the past 10 years with me together! Improvements Visual improvements to city area and interior rooms Enriched the scenes with additional audio Fixed critical bugs that were introduced as TDM was updated Added triggered Conversations for NPCs Added EFX support to all areas Changed multiple aspects of the map in terms of better gameplay and progression Corrected and inserted new writings in books and notes Reduced amount of loot necessary to end mission Added lantern and looking glass to inventory Made use of new particle effects to enhance visual quality Screenshots Credits Thanks go to: bikerdude for being on call to bugfix and improve the map with me Dragofer for pushing ideas for scripting things jysk, Baal & datiswous for finding even the tiniest bugs Springheel for reintroducing me to DR after almost 10 years with his tutorials Greebo for working on the newest tools to update my rusty FM Grayman – I hope I made you a little bit proud Have fun! SeriousToni - 12.04.2012 - 17.11.2022

All right y'all. We need some good ole data instead of 28 pages of -- well, you know. The "mantle roll" is the amount the view rolls or tilts during a mantle. So, if you could be so kind as to: Launch TDM 2.12 Beta Go to Settings -> Gameplay Set "View: Mantle Roll" to: 1.0 and test in game (100% of original mantle roll) 0.5 and test in game (50% of original mantle roll) 0.1 and test in game (10% of original mantle roll) Finally, vote for your preferred setting. The increased mantle speed changed the feel a bit and perhaps the mantle roll would feel better tweaked some to match it. (Edit: To clarify, this is about a potentially different default mantle roll value. The "View: Mantle Roll" slider in the settings will remain, regardless.) This thread is for your click-ity click vote on the poll at the top of this page. All constructive comments about the increased mantle speed in 2.12 are welcome on its own, wonderful thread:

In the first post of the other topic Geep proposed: Then Stgatilov's answer: But I think applying subtitles in different languages shouldn't be too hard I would think, but I don't know how the current translation system works. The engine should apply the correct subtitles based on the applied language setting, this doesn't need a whole new language system I think. Not sure who's going to write those subtitles though. I can only do Dutch and English and nobody needs Dutch I think. I suggest further discussion of this to take place in topic https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/

There is no dedicated article for it, but, it's covered in quite a lot of articles, including the "The Dark Mod Gameplay" article, which is surely one of the starting points for new players: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?search=lightgem&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=default&fulltext=1 It's also pretty straight forward anyway?

Our friend Skacky ( and his team "Feuillade Industries" ) has released a full sized Thief expansion \ campaign "The Black Parade": https://www.moddb.com/mods/thief-the-black-parade t is finally here! After 7-ish years of development, The Black Parade is finally released. So, what awaits you in this campaign? - 10 huge, open-ended and meticulously crafted missions with varied themes packed with content. - A brand new protagonist thrown into a dark, intricately woven story of crime and conspiracies. - 4 new tools happily supplied by the undermarket, at a price. - Many tweaks to the AI to make the game a bit more challenging but still fair. - A brand new "banter" system where AIs greet each other during their rounds and nightly life. - 28 voiced characters totaling roughly 1,800 new lines of dialogue. - 30 minutes of gorgeous hand-drawn briefings and cutscenes. - Brand new AI motions making the denizens of The City look more alive. - Full English subtitles. In The Black Parade you play the character of Hume, a hardened criminal who was sent into exile as a punishment for his crimes. The year is 833, you are now back in The City, a sprawling metropolis of soot-caked brick, greasy fumes and noisy machinery, with many a sinister conspiracy whispered behind closed doors. Lost and without a penny to your name, you are back to your life of thievery and must find your old associate Dahlquist. Shadows and silence are your allies. Light is your enemy. Stealth and cunning are your tools. And the riches of others are yours for the taking. The Black Parade aims at being a love letter to Thief: The Dark Project, and we hope we succeeded! It is recommended to have played through Thief: The Dark Project and/or Thief 2: The Metal Age at least once beforehand, since these missions are overall tougher than the base game. The Black Parade also comes with a few tweaks to the classic Thief gameplay formula: - Hume is not a Keeper and thus never received Garrett’s training: AIs will now notice you if they bump into you or vice versa, sometimes even in a perfect shadow. Be careful! - Hume can move banners aside instead of having to slash them. - Hume has additional footstep sounds for chains and pipes; these are metal sounds that aren’t as noisy as regular metal (about as noisy as stone/wood). - Water arrows can now be used to expand moss patches. - Servants will re-light extinguished torches on higher difficulty levels. - Servants may clean moss on the floor if they notice it on higher difficulty levels. - Zombies now smash wooden doors open instead of simply opening them. - Electric lanterns carried by guards can be turned off. - A few guards in the campaign are outfitted with heavy armor and helms so they cannot be knocked out using the Blackjack. - Hume can pick up small creature corpses such as spiders or sweels. DOWNLOAD (912 MB) MIRROR 1 MIRROR 2 Here is a very handy guide by nicked on how to set up Thief Gold for Fan Missions. !!!IMPORTANT NOTES!!! The Black Parade requires NewDark 1.26 or above! Make sure you use the latest version of TFix/TFix Lite before playing! The Black Parade should be launched with FMSel, NewDarkLoader or AngelLoader. It is not recommended to launch this campaign with DarkLoader or GarrettLoader. Note that mods such as Thief Gold HD Mod, NecroAge or Enhancement Pack are not compatible with this campaign. Remember that this is a campaign for THIEF GOLD, not Thief 2! Known issues: - Due to the complexity of the missions, there can be cases where some NPCs might get stuck walking against walls. There is unfortunately not much that can be done about this. Happy 25th anniversary to Thief: The Dark Project, and have fun taffers!

I haven't played any Thief mods before or even looked at the game since probably 2000. Going back to the old Thief graphics was a bit of a turnoff at first, but the gameplay more than makes up for it. Wow, this mod is massive. I'm over 20 hours in and just started The Jaws of Darkness (mission 8 of 10). Really enjoyable so far, great maps. It can get pretty intense at times, but in a good way. I ran into a couple of frustrating places where I couldn't find the objective and resorted to google (that sprawling mansion early on was easy to get lost in). Overall, very fun though.

Creating a new thread for this as it was being discussed in an old beta-testing thread starting here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/&do=findComment&comment=490751 I suppose the main questions are: when should this spawnarg be used, if at all? why was it introduced in the first place? Can we get it documented properly on the Wiki so misuse isn't propagated? @stgatilov @Dragofer

It totally is more complex than the original missions. Actually, a bit too complex to my liking... it's manageable, but, if every mission is that gigantic, it kinda defeats the focused gameplay, and breaks the rhythm a bit. You also have to remember a hundred things if the missions are that large. I've recently started to use the Steam in-game notes taking function.