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This is the (lengthy) thread about it. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=7263 There are still a few issues to be worked out before it is finalized.

Where's the new rig? I looked all over the forums to find more info but I found very little about it.

The spider needed the dir joint so I had to add them to the spider's skeleton in order to get the walking animations and walk ik working: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=107450

Based on this thread: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...mp;#entry180959 Summary of it: Basically fog shades can be used to fake shadows which increases performance if you choose to use them. Idea: In-Dark-Radiant shader editor for lighting. Would consist of two parts: Draw floor lights button Draw wall lights button First what you'd do is make your objects. Say you have a global light value but you don't want to have shadows behind the blocks from the light which is infront of the player start. Place brushes which you think would be an accurate representation of how the shadows would be: Click the Draw floor lights button and it DR would take your selection and turn it into a light material file with the dimensions of the green box, and also include a slider to adjust the darkness of the shadows your placing. The dimensions would be the x by y divided by some denominator in order to save memory to a maximum size of 512x512 perhaps. You'd enter in a height for the floor lighting and DR would dray up the shader file and place it under darkmod/textures/mapname and place a material file for it under darkmod/materials/mapname. You should also be able to use patches to get the desired effect and even complex models could be faked by using them as references for the shadow generator by rotating them to simulate the shadow. Thus you'd have created shadows in-game and their textures without ever leaving DR. (super efficient) The same process would occur for wall shadows except they'd be placed vertically. Anywho, just an idea, let me know what you guys think

Yep: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=180065

I don't take it seriously, but if I'm reading the forums at work, I don't want "Rape Fantasy" to ever go thru the Big Brother monitoring filters. It still appears in the root forum view even if I stay away from the Off Topic forum, because people keep posting here and making it the most recent thread in off-topic. EDIT: Unless it is something like a CNN.com article, "Dick Cheney Killed in Bizzare Rape Fantasy Gone Wrong." That would probably be okay.

Ok, ok, I guess you guys have a point. No sense in going it alone. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=9104

Well, we can add shadow meshes to plants. Most of the plants do have alpha maps. This cuts down drastically on polys which is good for plants, there will typically be alot of them scattered about. But adding shadows does increase computation, and to get shgadows that look like the plants will require quite a few polys to be added to the models. A very basic 'blob' shadow mesh can be added but won't ever look like grass, it will just help darken things and hide player. I wonder if shadow2 can be used on a patch? I don't see why not. That could help authors just make a general area shadow where lots of plants are. Probably better than every plant obj having it's own shadow mesh. Plants that brush aside would probably need either an AF file (meaning animations, md5 files, ect... major pain, little benfit. most fm's will most likely be more city than vegetation jungle type maps) or maybe a script to make the plants move when touched, probably thru source/receptron. That would be a major lag on the system. ------------ I think it's one of those things that would be REALLY cool to see in game, but the computation is above the engine/modern computers. Also, alot of our plants (trees/bushes/grass) will probably be particles. They look alot better than old style models, but try and make particles behave that way. Don't think that's very likely, they like to face the player, that's about it. -------- Edit-- Just saw your new post and link... The problem I see with that is that it is for a 3d program. There are things a 3d program can do a game engine can't. one was the leaves, they are using clusters to make the leaves appear in certain areas. D3's particles aren't that good. Also, that program is not keeping track of all the game related stuff, only the trees. Don't know if you've seen our particle trees yet, they look pretty good. As good as Oblivion IMO. I think it would take alot of work to do it better, and that's as good of a tree as I've seen in any game to date.

I never thought that a simple screenshot could be so confusing What is implemented is support for the vertexColor and inverseVertexColor stage keywords in material definitions. These keywords allow a material stage to be multiplied by the vertex colours which are included in the model file (after being added by a modelling program, there is no vertex painting in DR). These vertex colours have two purposes. Firstly, they can modulate and darken the texture on a model in particular places, such as to give the impression of dirt or rust. This is illustrated on the second model from the left in the skins tutorial: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...ost&p=52511 Secondly, by using two diffuse/bumpmap stages, once of which has vertexColor and the other inverseVertexColor, it is possible to blend between two textures on the same model by using full-black to full-white vertex colours. This latter function is not yet implemented in the DR renderer, since currently only a single diffuse/bump/specular triplet can be rendered on a model.

I have to login once when I get to work, then once when I get home, every day. While I'm still at work (or still at home) I can visit the forums multiple times and still be logged in, even after closing my browser, restarting laptop, etc. It seems to only require a new login from me when the IP changes. Perhaps your ISP at work or wherever you are is somehow alternating IPs?

The quality is not particularly good. If someone is looking to add a bunch of good textures, I still have BlackThief's excellent stone/mansion textures somewhere. They just need material shaders, but I keep forgetting to get around to it. If anyone is up for it just let me know. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...amp;hl=textures

I get this as well. Rather, I got it for a week or so, a few weeks ago. Now it has started up again, and worse than ever. I'll often be in the middle of looking at new posts, and it'll inform me "This menu has been disabled" and that I must log in to see member forums. These past few days, this will happen perhaps 4 times a day. Very odd. By contrast, I visit first thing in the morning, and all is fine (later today, I'll be forced to login a bunch again though, I am sure). Not sure what the heck is going on. I've force-refreshed the page, and purged the cookies. Rather not wipe my entire browser history for one site which is having an off-and-on prob; rather hoping it's just an invision board bug. The only thing that has changed here recently is that last week I installed flashblocker and adblocker, but they're both disabled.

I loved that reference. I've played some way through the demo, and I think it's pretty damn good. It never claimed to be anything other than an FPS with lots of environmental interaction; that's what was promised, and that's what we've got. Taken at that level, it's a brilliantly-realised game. This one's definitely going on my to-play list (though I might wait until they patch out the SecuROM crap). Is it the best game ever? I don't know. I don't particularly care. Since when was this a pissing contest?

Great work Orb. Another step for DR toward accurate previews for mappers. We should talk to the guys I mentioned in this thread. http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=9041 This was the email I received from the lead coder.

Hi, I'm currently studying for an Msc in computer animation and trying to work out a possible masters thesis. I'm very interested in contributing something to this mod as my project. The thief series has long been an inspiration for me and I've followed along with the development of this mod with great anticipation and awe. Used to post on the old ION storm forums a little following thief 3's development, used dromed back in the day too Just wondering what are the general areas most in need of assistance? Obviously as a masters project it would need to be substantial and based around a proposal and research. I mainly come from a coding background which is what makes up the majority of the course. We've been working with OpenGL, python and renderman mainly, for differing applications. Before that I had a few years with Java amongst others. We've also done intro modules to maya and houdini etc. One small assignment I've been working just recently has been a basic 3d collisions game which I've based around the old arcade classic Breakout. As a group project I also did coding and level design/editing for a hl2 mod. Just to give you an idea of some of the areas we've looked at. Personally I'm very interested in level design and I'd like to incorporate something into a small but solid map using dark radiant too. I'm very interested in AI as well, not sure where you're at currently with this? Anyway, I'm wondering if you guys have any thoughts/suggestions? Below is a link to some of the past projects people have investigated to give you some idea of what I might offer. I don't know if it's a feasible idea really, if not, no worries. It might need to be something that is currently way of your radar in terms of implementation but that is applicable to the game as a future target but workable now. I just thought I'd throw this up here, I'd be really interested to hear from you all regardless. Thanks and keep up the inspiring work! Previous Masters work examples

He's merely pointing the fact that in the *originals* is hard. Playing the demos isn't a prerequisite for suggesting a better system (not to mention there is no rope arrow in the demos) Sometimes fans (like myself) sound like we are demanding things.. but we are only excited Btw - probably not very relevant - but I'm working on a game based on rope dynamics. It's a totally abstract game, but I was inspired by the thief rope. Maybe some feature I implemented, such as the double rope, inspires you guys here's a link to the thread in the 3dgs forums: link

We could use some help in the animation department, as I believe we're only just on track to deliver a basic core set of animations, for various reasons. Springheel (art lead) could tell you more about that. Do you have any examples of completed animation work? The programming department is slightly less in need, I believe. But there is still a bunch of work to be done, and I'm sure greebo wouldn't mind having some work taken off his plate. We do have a bunch of great mappers already, though of course you're very welcome to join in. Beta mapper access is normally granted based on examples of previous/existing work. If you're lacking in relevant portfolio material, you can show off your skills using DarkRadiant and Saint Lucia assets (all publicly available). I don't know how new and exciting a Computer Animation masters project has to be. I'm going to assume that you can't just make a bunch of awesome assets (e.g. animations) - if you could that would be perfect. The Doom 3 SDK is reasonably open, with only a few bits of it being closed-source, so if you're interested in implementing a particular piece of technology all the better. I notice a few of those projects had to do with procedural animation, for example. (Word of warning, though, the guts of D3's animation code are pretty impenetrable and completely uncommented.) Stuff like flocking is less likely to be useful, unless you use it for ambient animals (like birds), since our AI is pretty computationally intensive - you generally can't have massive crowds on-screen at once, without implementing some kind of fancy "group awareness" system. Anyway, welcome to the forums, and I hope we can figure out a mutually-beneficial arrangement.

@Baal : Yes it's just .vfp and material-file modifications. All vfp files get some basic information passed in, like eye-position and vertex-info etc. For example the vertex-program part of this is just copied from bumpyEnvironment.vfp that comes with Doom3, and the fragment-program part is customized. Did you also use a custom .vfp file for the image here ? http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...st&p=175427

I'm just playing around with what Ascottk was talking about here: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=179298 Basically, if you add the lines: "copy_joint Neck" "Neck" "copy_joint Head" "Head" to both entityDef atdm:ai_noble_man, and entityDef atdm:ai_nobleman, you can compare. The old skeleton (atdm:ai_noble_man) works (although the neck is stretched). The new skeleton (atdm:ai_nobleman) has a rotated head. The heads are the same, so it must have something to do with the neck and head joints. "editor_var copy_joint jointname" "specifies a joint in the head to copy the specified body joint's animation from"

Anything No one's been in charge of sound. I'd say download all the music & sound from SVN to check out what's there, and see what else you can add. Go crazy! Actually we'd like some more aesthetically pleasing lock picking sounds http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...mp;#entry179449

Squill, I did some researching into the head_control issue (so that there would be no gap when the head turns). It seems like something on the new skeleton is rotated in a way that causes this not to work. Can you check the thread: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showt...mp;#entry179372 Hopefully we can address this on the new skeleton, because we could then make AI without big collars to hide their neck. Is there any obvious different between the head/neck joints of the old and new skeleton?

Ok, I'll give you Contributor permissions now. There are two things we need to get sorted out before we can dive in head first: Please read through this: http://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?showtopic=6694 It contains most information needed for starters (how to set up SVN, our working culture, etc.). You'll need to be familiar with the license which TDM will be distributed under. Although it is not fully discussed yet, TDM will be released under some sort of GPL or Creative Commons license, which means that all your contributions will fall under the same license. Basically, we want that TDM is open source and free for all to use. If you have a problem with any of that, please say so. Ready to go?

Yes, if someone can move this debate to a new thread that would be good. The title might draw in more debate. I'm not sure the lowest mutterings should be counted at all. Over at Eidos, the 'official' ghosting rules are defined: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.ph...highlight=ghost These rules are extreme: no damage, doors re-shut, etc. Yet is states: "If a human grumbles, shifts in place and goes back to "relaxed", you are clean." - they don't count low levels because they are mere unconfirmed suspicions 'must have been rats' and the player is not detected. I agree these are not actually alerts (although technically they might be 'Alert 1') but warnings to the player they are at the borderline of being noticed. The next level up where AI go to investigate an extinguished torch should count but very low say 1%. This is again because the player is never detected. The AI are simply investigating a torch that has blown out unnaturally. In Thief 2 they usually say something like 'Oh, not again. It's so draughty in here." Where AI go to investigate a noise arrow or thrown object then this is more unnatural and even though they might not detect the player I would deduct 2 or 3 or even 5 points. But I'm finding if I release a noise arrow upstairs I'm getting 2 upstairs AI investigating and shouting and 5 more come running up from downstairs. (not sure if this was because I had not properly visportalled my lift shaft until last night.) So I would like say 2 points for each AI. If several are there then it is quite a commotion. But I don't feel so strongly on this point. Maybe 2 or 3 points is enough no matter how many. Firing off 10 noise arrows throughout a mission is not stealthy so deducting 20 or 30 points seems reasonable. Incidentally, I accidentally found it useful when extinguishing a torch in the hall that a sentry went to investigate so leaving a room unguarded and I took the opportunity to slip in there! Two birds with one stone. Later I could explore the hall in the dark. So by my values that would only deduct say 1%. And as said before, a major alert is surely 25 to 50% deduction. I personally count the mission failed when I get such an alert and reload my last game save just the same as if I had been killed. There may also be a case for deducting 1% for each KO? For a player to clean out a city leaving it a ghost town I don't see why they should get the same stealth score as someone who slips through undetected. I have to confess I detect in myself a kind of gratification at the thought of many players realizing they are not as stealthy as they thought when they start getting regular scores of 60 to 80% even without a major alert. At the same time, they are not compelled to play differently.

Thanks Dom. Jobs are really, really scarce, thats why I had to try to make it into a good program or otherwise you are wasting your time. I still have tons and tons of work to do but this is a big step in the right direction. Thanks sparhawk, its very good news, basically this class will give me the academic standing to take harder courses and after a lot of other work to eventually apply to a top level PhD program. I do not have any publications yet worth mentioning, thats another big goal in the next few years, to get my research project in decent enough shape to submit it for publication. But I would be happy to let you read the paper, once I get busy cleaning it up, another professor just tore the bulk of its to shreds so I have to patch it up first.

@Ishtvan, I actually type in the shader name ( //base/shadername ) with notepad in the ase files after I export them. 3dsMax leaves file names to textures, doesn't read mtr files. So I'll have c:/blahblah/.... to manually correct. I think LightWave actually lets you put the shader name in the file though. @Springheel. For the wheel barrows I think 2 models might be best. We could have wheelbarrow and wheelbarrow_full (?), wheel barrow full could just use skins. That way authors don't have to place/align the piles. We don't have to decide if the piles go with barrows under tools so they are easy to find... As for my pots I was thinking of making one round dirt piece. It could be resized by author to fit any pot vase since thre are so many sizes. It doesn't really need physics I guess. don't know, this is one that actually sucks, don't really want to make a new sizeof dirt for every pot. Don't want to double number of pots. But don't want stuff to be dropped thru dirt either. Then again, I guess authors could just make a quick dirt patch, or I could make some and have them as prefabs?