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I'm happy to present my first FM, The Spider and the Finch. There may be a spider, but no ghosts or undead. It should run a couple hours. It's now available on the Missions page or the in-game downloader. Many thanks to the beta testers Acolytesix, Cambridge Spy, datiswous, madtaffer, Shadow, and wesp5 for helping me improve and making the mission to the best of my abilities. This would not be have been possible without Fidcal's excellent DarkRadiant tutorial. Thanks also to the many people who answered my questions in the TDM forums. Cheers! 2023-12-13 Mission updated to version 3. Fixed a bug where the optional loot option objective was not actually optional. Updated the animations for Astrid Added a hallway door so the guards are less likely to be aggroed en masse.

No, it does not. Caulk, shadowcaulk, or any other opaque material are the same for the sake of area/portal structure. All brushes with such textures are blockers of the same kind. The difference is that caulk is not rendered, is not lit, and does not cast shadows. Shadowcaulk is supposed to cast shadows (while still not being rendered and not lit).

Aha, thank you for this clarification! I see what's happening now: I was expecting that the building modules still cast shadows by default, which I was in fact hoping got disabled since their performance impact can be felt... in addition I thought texturing the walls with normal caulk would still work as they create closed rooms, but indeed caulk isn't a shadow caster so I shall replace them with shadowcaulk as suggested. There's another bug in latest dev I was waiting to report: I noticed I can place electrical lights in DarkRadiant where they show up just fine, but when opening the map in TDM they do not spawn any longer. The console provides a warning which suggests an invalid newline causing the engine not to load the def though DR doesn't mind it. I don't override the file in my FM nor had any errors while running the installer and updating so I'm presuming something got broken. WARNING:file def/tdm_lights_static_electric.def, line 612: newline inside string

The modules are comprised of models, they are completely ignored by the area-portal graph. And now they don't cast shadows if it is proved that light beams travelling though visportals don't touch them. If you use caulk to create areas, then there is nothing that would cast shadows: brushes don't cast shadows because they don't exist (caulk), and modules don't cast shadows because according to area-portal graph they are not hit by light to begin with. There is internal material called "shadowcaulk". As far as I understand, it is not drawn as ordinary surfaces, but it does cast shadows. I think in order to work properly with new optimization, shadowcaulk should be preferred to caulk for the brushes.

@MirceaKitsune try something other than caulk on that brush and see if it goes away. Make sure it's not a no shadows or transparent material.

It's not that no: I didn't modify the properties of the default entity or its flame, in this case it's the standard atdm:lamp_oil_wall_lit entity... also I have player shadows enabled, the player as well as other architecture elements cast shadows fine. Walls are the building modules, eg: model models/darkmod/architecture/modules/interior_set01_corner.lwo with skin diamond_wallpaper as a test. This is the closest to the setup I still have: The origin of the light is well beyond the face of the module surface for shadow casting. Though this shouldn't even matter since the light is in the other room and the caulk brush should itself mark this. I think I noticed this on other maps too while playing, but only now saw it obviously enough to realize there's likely an issue somewhere. I remember seeing the glow of a light from another room shining on the floor / ceiling when it shouldn't, though I didn't document it at the time.

Make sure the gas lamp light is not set to no shadows. Same with the wall texture, make sure you didn't accidentally use _ns version of a texture

Public release v1.7.6 (with Dark Mod support) is out. Improvements since the final beta 14 are: Fixed a few remaining bugs with zip/pk4 support. Game Versions window now properly displays TDM version. Import window no longer has a vestigial off-screen TDM field (because TDM doesn't need or support importing). Web search option is now disabled if an unknown/unsupported FM is selected. If an FM with an unknown or unsupported game type is selected, the messages in the tab area now no longer refer to Thief 3 ("Mod management is not supported for Thief: Deadly Shadows"). The full changelog can be viewed at the release link. The de facto official AngelLoader thread is here: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149706 Bug reports, feature requests etc. are usually posted there. I'll continue following this thread though. Thanks everyone and enjoy!

Good work! I enjoy short missions because things are nice and focused - you get in, you get out. Also I tend to do better with the loot amounts and I was able to get all the loot without too much trouble, which is rare for me. If I were to make a suggestion though - I found the intro briefing sequence a bit distracting because it was so obvious the narration was pitch-shifted to make a deeper voice. If you felt the original voice wasn't deep enough for your needs, I would either get someone on the forums to record it for you or just leave as is. That's my only real complaint and it's not even about the mission itself, so pretty good first start!

Beta 11 Fix finished-on state auto-update was unreliable Slighty improve scanner title/author detect Tags are now named some whatever regular-version-looking thing to force GitHub to put the newest at the top

I'd like to better understand what you want. The design of dragging bodies is to hold frob (key down) to drag and release frob (key up) to let go. That way it's impossible to walk away while unintentionally dragging a body. Plus, it's quick to grab and move several body limbs in rapid succession. This is thought to provide a better experience, especially for new players. Towards the beginning of this thread, I created a "tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior" cvar. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22198-feature-proposal-frob-to-use-world-item/&do=findComment&comment=487580 "tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior", default:"1" Which drag body behavior? 1 --- on frob key up, drop body (limb). 0 --- on second frob, drop body (limb), TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. That cvar was removed shortly afterwards, because it was said that it wasn't needed. With that cvar set to 0, a second frob would be required to let go of the body. Is that the behavior that you want? If so, I can add that cvar back. Also, I saw elsewhere that you want the ability to revert back to the old way. If you mean that all of the controls match TDM 2.11, that can be done with "tdm_frobhold_delay 0" and there will be a menu setting to disable it as well.

The issue with the bounds of visportals "glowing" has been quite apparent in my WIP: If it is helpful in resolving the issue they are only visible when soft shadows are enabled. Using the "Maps" lighting mode also seems to reduce how visible they are. The performance improvements are quite significant so it would obviously be good to keep as many of the optimizations as possible.

Not to be a nag, but I was thinking about the columns problem. If you go to the view source tab in the wiki article: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Fan_Missions_for_The_Dark_Mod&action=edit The raw table data is accessible directly: |- !align=left|{{TDM-FM|written|Written in Stone}} |Bikerdude, Amadeus, Dragofer |{{Forumlink|https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21265-written-in-stone-beta-210-only-20220128/}} |2022-01-28 |338 |Yes |Yes |CCC 22, Elixir |City Missions |Undead, Horror Themes |- Each pipe character represents one of the columns.

I wrote about it here: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=5172#c16126 This is broken by my shadows optimization. Basically, this map breaks Doom 3 assumptions by replacing some parts of world geometry in the doorway with caulk. No idea how to fix it in engine (aside from disabling all the optimizations). UPDATE: We had a major performance issue with shadows. Imagine we have a small fully closed house with a light source inside it. The light has huge light radius, which covers a lot of stuff outdoors. Previously, all that stuff did cast shadows, despite everyone agrees it is not necessary. This is no longer the case: the latest dev build won't cast shadows for the entities outdoors. Now imagine that part of the wall of the house is replaced with caulk. The engine still thinks it is a solid wall because it's fully enclosed with opaque surfaces, so it drops shadows of outdoors entities. But outdoor objects might get lit. This map does the same.

Terrific! The beta test thread is up: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22238-beta-testing-the-spider-and-the-finch/

Welcome to the Dark Mod forums MarsManon! Thank you very much for the kind words about SLL, it's always nice to hear We all worked real hard on bringing Grayman's map to life and I'm glad you enjoyed it

I was so enchanted by this FM, I had to sign up to the forums the same day I finished it to come thank the authors Genuinely, truly incredible work! I was so overwhelmed in places that I resorted to just shouting joy at my monitor two, three, maybe four entirely separate times while playing. Exploring, puzzling, finding something new, trying to use it, and finding it does a whole new, separate, wonderful thing! There aren't enough words inside me to describe the feeling. It was breathtaking. I don't have any specific feedback that hasn't come through this thread before Thanks so much for making this, for all the inspiration and ingenuity and effort it took. If I never play another level this good, in any other game, in my life, I'd be fine with that.

For the menu setting, maybe we could re-purpose the "Show Menu Tooltips" setting. Who would want to not see the tooltips? They aren't intrusive! As for examples, two come to mind. Player frobs some junk item: Don't let everyone think an elephant entered the room. Hold down the 'Creep' key while you move objects to avoid making a ruckus. A guard starts searching the player: A guard is searching for you. If you dare blackjack them, get the drop on them from behind. Forget about bashing from a side or upfront, you'll only make things worse. First one has been a thing for a while if I'm not mistaken and should be communicated; thought we had to rely on the TDM Modpack... The blackjack effectiviness is known to cause confusion, especially on Thief players, since Garrett seemingly knows just the right spot to bash no matter the alert level of a guard. And I don't believe adding the Deadly Shadows-like animation to TDM was a proper solution; players should be able to read the situation instead of focusing on the blackjack, which sometimes you can't even see because everything is pitch dark. Of course, the second example should take in mind a previous standard explanation on blackjacking under normal circumstances when you equip the blackjack, for example.

There's a group of players who have meticulously tested and adjusted ghosting rules for The Dark Mod. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Why alienate an established group of dedicated players?

https://downloads.khinsider.com/game-soundtracks/album/thief-deadly-shadows Lots of game soundtracks there.

No idea. What I meant was just that leaning can expose you (a lot) depending on the lighting, so presumably you won't get "invisible shots" with the new lean. I haven't tried it yet, so I could be wrong, but that's probably the case. On a side note, personally I don't like that as it is that much. Getting so exposed makes leaning so useless in so many situations... I'm always scared of leaning because of that. I think it's one of those realism vs gameplay things where I'd rather favor gameplay. So much about hiding in shadows and sneaking is hyper unrealistic anyway. But favoring the player usually makes a more gratifying gameplay. Like when you're making a 2D game and you make the player hit box smaller than the sprite, to make it more forgiving and less frustrating.

I have been following this thread and I tried Wellingtoncrab's build. I thought about all this time ago and I made up my mind back then. I understand the desire for these changes but at the same time I understand why things are the way they are. The current TDM design is consistent and there isn't much room for improvement if we stick to what's available. Shortcuts won't cut it, a modern solution requires something else: less keys and more visuals, sorry to say. With my comments I am trying to warn that we probably are focusing too much on the goal and too little on the side effects 99% of players we will never hear from might face: A candle unintentionally extinguished is frustrating. Dropping bodies while operating doors is frustrating. Trying to hide a leg in the shadows only to end up shouldering the body is frustrating.

This mission has an amazing architechture true to the orginal thief games. But I feel it needed a bit more optimization. My rtx 3060 struggles even with stencil shadows on low.

OK I think I've got to the bottom of this. I've created this forum thread (with bug report): https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22221-bug-drowning-ai-in-shallow-water/ I can apply a workaround, although it won't be perfect and the bug itself needs fixing in the engine. There are a few other things that need fixing so will put an update together soonish.

If any mappers have encountered weirdness with kill objectives not working with drowning AI, I think I've found out why. I don't think it would be a particularly difficult one to fix either. I've raised this bug report: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6323 Some context here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21837-fan-mission-the-lieutenant-2-high-expectations-by-frost_salamander-20230424/&do=findComment&comment=487316 I think this is a bug, but just raising here in case some people think otherwise.