question: regarding the use of the word garrett

[7upMan]

So is any name starting with Ger/Gar forbidden, or would Gerhard (for whatever reason someone would use that name) be still okay?

 

By the way, what you guys did with TDM ist incredibly great, and I think you can rest assured that sooner or later the first campaigns will start showing up. I know for a fact that several multi-parted FMs are in the making, so no pressure on you. 

 

 

[etdarkb]

Most probably it is better no names at all. Do you remember the Doomguy?

[New Horizon]

So is any name starting with Ger/Gar forbidden, or would Gerhard (for whatever reason someone would use that name) be still okay?

 

Anything that isn't or couldn't be mistaken for Garrett. Ideally, I think the team will have to choose a name and put it out there.

[7upMan]

Anything that isn't or couldn't be mistaken for Garrett.  Ideally, I think the team will have to choose a name and put it out there.

 

So why not open a thread with suggestions, and after a certain date make a poll with all entries, to see which one wins? Was this idea already rejected, or has it just not been thought of?

[etdarkb]

Since it is the team I'd say: `Ferret'(right?) from Chalice of Kings.

[Melan]

Palmer? That could be an interesting choice. There is even a picture of him.

 

(Really, people should use their own imagination and create their own interpretation of their favourite fictious thief, whether it is Robin Hood, Ali Baba or The Grey Mouser.)

[Baddcog]

So why not open a thread with suggestions, and after a certain date make a poll with all entries, to see which one wins? Was this idea already rejected, or has it just not been thought of?

 

There actually was a long discussion, voting, name lists, etc... Actually not sure what 'won' as I was happy with simply calling him 'thief'. But mostly I think the consensus is freedom to authors to choose whatever they want, there's a very losely based 'storyline' on the wiki that lists factions and whatnot, the rest is for authors to fill in.

Basically without an official campaign none of that matters, it mattered in Thief because they were selling a game/storyline, it's up to TDM authors to do that work now.

[SneaksieDave]

This topic gets way too much needless attention.

 

TDM has at least three thief characters already, and of course you can call your thief whatever you want. But I think anyone who can't fully enjoy stealth gameplay without a particular name attached to their in-game persona is really missing the boat.

[etdarkb]

Evidently some people enjoys the story more than other. I personally think that a FPS game is more than just bunch of missions.

[New Horizon]

Evidently some people enjoys the story more than other. I personally think that a FPS game is more than just bunch of missions.

 

I think the story is important to the mission, the difference with TDM is that you're not forced to play as Garrett, it's 'you playing whoever you think you are'...maybe you think of the Thief as yourself...or maybe you have made up a personality for him. We fill in the world around you, and give some guidelines but in the end...you are who you make yourself to be.

 

If a group in the community chooses to make a campaign, they can create a character for the story. Fair game.

[SneaksieDave]

Evidently some people enjoys the story more than other.

Story of course. Hell, I've teared up playing Thief (shhh... ). But my point has several facets:

-the thief in LGS' games could've been named Harry and it wouldn't make any gameplay difference

-TDM represents new story possibilities

-call the TDM thieves whatever you like on a personal level (yes, including that name if you must to enjoy yourself; there's no thought police)

[Baddcog]

I like a good story in a mission, I think it's one of the things that can really make a mission stand out.

 

However if it's Garrett, Harry, whatever makes no difference to me. It wasn't the name (although I guess Garrett is a good one) that made thief fun, it was the entire storyline about this one guy, but moreso just the gameplay.

I could play 50 different thiefs in fm's and as long as they are good fm's it's all enjoyable.

 

The thing with Garrett imo is that he is just played out. 3 games, 400+ fm's (most used Garrett). His story is full and complete, adding to it without interfering with canon or current FM's is almost impossible. Even Edios hinted at this at the end of T3, maybe it's time for the same gameplay with a new story...

 

I think of Fm's as standalone stories. Each can have it's own unique story within the world as whole, they can be standalone or tie in together. It's a citry, gotta have more than one taffer running about.

[Fidcal]

Just to set the record straight since it was raised here, the player character in Chalice of Kings (Thief's Den 2) is named Farrell. He was also in Thief's Den 1. He is also in Thief's Den 3 (Heart of Lone Salvation) to be released in a few months.

 

Everyone is free to use the name; it is not my copyright. In fact I'd be delighted if some did so others won't feel inhibited about using the name. It was the most voted for (by far) by the team's internal discussion. But it was not publicised because we felt it better to let the community decide what they want to do.

 

It is useful to have a named player character not only to give substance to the story but also it is technically helpful when you need to include a readable message aimed at the player character. Otherwise how will the player know if he finds a scroll addressed to him? This was the main reason I have used the name.

 

In Thief's Den there was a message from Farrell's informant, Sam, and this message was addressed at 'F' as at the time it was undecided if the name 'Farrell' would be 'released'. In Chalice he was directly named as he will be in Heart.

 

There is a little history to the character if anyone wants to know.

[aidakeeley]

When I play Thief... I am Aida.

 

Aida plays just like I would

 

Which is cool.

 

Has the same haircut too.

 

Which is way cool.

[Mortem Desino]

Does he have the same black jack, too?

 

That'd be wicked cool.

[aidakeeley]

It's true, the blackjack thing. Truly wicked cool.

 

What's the coolest? When I play TDM? I too am Aida! And there is no reason to fret about Gerhardt Garrotte Gavotte de la Guardia Le Ghosting Guest-uninvited guiltily.

[Forje]

Everyone is free to use the name; it is not my copyright. In fact I'd be delighted if some did so others won't feel inhibited about using the name. It was the most voted for (by far) by the team's internal discussion. But it was not publicised because we felt it better to let the community decide what they want to do.

 

 

--Aha! I had been trying to sort through alternate names I might want to use on my own, but this settles it. I like it.

 

There is a little history to the character if anyone wants to know.

 

I'd actually be interested in hearing about it.

[Springheel]

I posted it somewhere before, but can't recall where offhand.

[Fidcal]

This is compiled from two or three sources but I think is a fair representation of agreement:

 

"Farrell was born of a wealthy family so was educated, smart, and used to being in authority but his father squandered the estate and became bankrupt eventually dying in a debtors' prison. Young Farrell, struggling to stay alive on the streets, fell in with the thieves' guilds where he mastered his trade and became particularly expert at stealth. But he became disillusioned because the more lucrative and dangerous his heists, the bigger the cut the guild took. So he left, leaving behind some enemies but generally an uneasy alliance. The guilds respect his skills and information and use him now and again for special assignments. In return, Farrell is able to use some of their fences and informants. Thus Farrell has the freedom of being an outsider with the advantage of many useful contacts."

[7upMan]

Is Farrell the first or the last name? I've grown particularly fond of the name "Palmer", which was named earlier in the thread. It's a nice pun to "palm", I think, although some surely will find it lame. Anyway, Farrell's second (middle) name could be Palmer too, right? In that case, you'd just have to think about a family name - or a first name.

[Fidcal]

Farrell is his surname. Like Garrett his first name has not been revealed but I'd call him John. The bland names seems to blend into the background with no fireworks - much like a decent stealthy thief ought to. If his middle name is Palmer, he never speaks of it. But then, he doesn't say much anyway.

[Springheel]

Farrell is his surname. Like Garrett his first name has not been revealed but I'd call him John.

 

Huh? Since when was Garrett the character's last name? I know Constantine called him "Mister Garrett" but I thought that was a formal greeting, just the way people used to say "Master So-and-so". It seems highly unlikely to me that a street urchin would even have a family name, let alone be called by it.

 

As far as Farrell goes, I was also assuming that was his first name. Going by a family name would provide people with too much information, especially if it is well-known to noble families.

 

Here's the backstory that I posted on TTLG a while back:

 

What seems to make the most sense is that he was a lesser son of a noble family who was looking forward to an easy inherentence, without the responsibility of taking care of the family fortune. His elder brother died or was killed, and he wound up with the entire family fortune after his parent's death. Lazy and unmotivated, he spent his money frivolously while family 'friends' handled the day to day business. One day, the character realized that his fortune was gone, and bill collectors were coming to take away his house and goods. His family's friends were nowhere to be found (and were substantially richer). The character was thrown out of his house onto the streets, where he spent many years.

 

Eventually, he wound up as an informant for a local thieves' guild, where his knowledge of various noble houses was worth a coin or two. After a while, contact with the guild lead him to rise from begging to muggings, and eventually to learning some real skills. Because he worked as an informant for a while he would have contact with several different guilds, possibly rivals. And his knowledge of noble families (and floorplans) could explain why he is willing to take on risky jobs like breaking into mansions. There are plenty of opportunities to suggest he visited some of these places in his youth.

 

It's a shame, as I love the backstory, but really can't get comfortable with the name.

[Fidcal]

Both Garrett and Farrell are well-established surnames. Might be used occasionally as forenames but mostly surnames. Farrell is certainly a surname in my FMs.

[Springheel]

Both Garrett and Farrell are well-established surnames.

 

Well established by who? Are you talking about game canon or the real world? I'm willing to accept that there might be evidence that Garrett is a family name which I'm unaware of, though it sounds like a first name to me (and I still think it highly unlikely for a street urchin to have or use a family name.) Many European countries didn't use last names until the 16-17th Century, and the lower classes were usually the last to adopt them.

[aidakeeley]

 

Might be evidence possibly if even unaware still you should be willing to at least listen to and divine some willing way to accept the theoretical maybeness.