Nosslaks stuff

[Fidcal]

Is your original material defined in the model bitmap line named exactly:

		*BITMAP "//base/privacy_screen_body"

 

Is your skin folder in darkmod or in a game folder and is Dark Radiant and Dark Mod correctly pointing at it with fs_game?

 

If you select the entity in Dark Radiant and click the skin line in Entity Inspector then click the button that appears below to select a skin, does your new skin show in the matching skins?

 

Is all the above correct but it stills shows black in game? Or it shows as the original texture?

[Nosslak]

Is your original material defined in the model bitmap line named exactly:

		*BITMAP "//base/privacy_screen_body"

Yes.

 

Is your skin folder in darkmod or in a game folder and is Dark Radiant and Dark Mod correctly pointing at it with fs_game?

The model was only in the darkmod folder and I had fs_game assigned to darkmod in Dark Radiant. I also tried to copy it to my mission folder and use that as my mod base but that didn't work either.

 

If you select the entity in Dark Radiant and click the skin line in Entity Inspector then click the button that appears below to select a skin, does your new skin show in the matching skins?

I'm not very confident in using the editor but afaik the enitity inspector is the panel to left with model/origin specifications and such. If that is what you mean then I can't find anywhere it says skin at all. If you perhaps meant that I should click on the small + in the model browser then I can't because DR doesn't seem to recognize that it has more than one skin at all. So in other words it looks just as it did before I even tried to make a skin.

 

Is all the above correct but it stills shows black in game? Or it shows as the original texture?

It shows original texture.

[Fidcal]

If you have a game folder then in Dark Radiant you should have:

 

Preferences > game:

mod fs_game mygamefolder

mod base darkmod

 

The skins folder with your skin file can be either darkmod/skins or mygamefolder/skins

 

If you are not using a game folder then...

 

mod fs_game darkmod

 

In that case the skins folder must only be darkmod/skins

 

Having made the skin it still needs applying to the individual model entity in a map. This is what to do:

 

In Dark Radiant, with your map open:

 

Create the model

Select the model entity

Type a new property:

 

skin

 

And give it the value:

 

privacy_screen_plain

 

Alternatively, give it a few random letters as value and press Enter and the skin selector button appears at the foot of the Entity Inspector panel. Click it and you see skins and if there are any matching skins. In this case, if all is well, you should see one matching skin - this new one.

[Nosslak]

Alright, we're finally getting somewhere.

If you have a game folder then in Dark Radiant you should have:

 

Preferences > game:

mod fs_game mygamefolder

mod base darkmod

 

The skins folder with your skin file can be either darkmod/skins or mygamefolder/skins

 

If you are not using a game folder then...

 

mod fs_game darkmod

 

In that case the skins folder must only be darkmod/skins

 

Having made the skin it still needs applying to the individual model entity in a map. This is what to do:

 

In Dark Radiant, with your map open:

 

Create the model

Select the model entity

I've got everything working up until this.

 

Type a new property:

 

skin

 

And give it the value:

 

privacy_screen_plain

 

Alternatively, give it a few random letters as value and press Enter and the skin selector button appears at the foot of the Entity Inspector panel. Click it and you see skins and if there are any matching skins. In this case, if all is well, you should see one matching skin - this new one.

This doesn't seem to work. I assume that when you say I should type a new skin property I assume you mean in the first blank textbox in the inspector and then in the second I wrote privacy_screen_body_plain (changed the name as it describes it better) and clicked on the "choose skin..." button. No matching skins turned up but I did manage to load it from "all skins" instead. So when I look at it in the editor I can see the right texture but not in the game, it's just black in-game. What should i do?

Edited August 16, 2010 by Nosslak

[Fidcal]

Funny it doesn't show in matching skins because your skin file looks right. Check that the model line in both the skin file and on the entity in Entity Inspector are both exactly the same

 

model models\darkmod\furniture\privacy_screen.ase

 

 

If there is a tiny difference there that would explain both why it is not in the matching skins and why it shows black in game.

 

[edit] note that these forums mess up the format of some of these long unbroken lines so there is no space of course before ase above

[Nosslak]

Funny it doesn't show in matching skins because your skin file looks right. Check that the model line in both the skin file and on the entity in Entity Inspector are both exactly the same

 

model models\darkmod\furniture\privacy_screen. ase

 

If there is a tiny difference there that would explain both why it is not in the matching skins and why it shows black in game.

It's weird but for some reason I can find the texture in matching textures even though I looked closely to see that nothing would change. For some reason it still doesn't want to render the right diffuse in the game, but it do show the right editor diffuse in the engine. Weird.

[Fidcal]

If you mean you can now find your skin in DR's matching skins list and it correctly shows the skin in DR but not in-game then you need to check your path for Dark Mod. Is the skin in darkmod/skins or mygamefolder/skins? And are you running Dark Mod pointing to the game folder if so? This assumes that you have re-started Dark Mod. I don't think it reloads skins with reloadDecls.

[Nosslak]

If you mean you can now find your skin in DR's matching skins list and it correctly shows the skin in DR but not in-game then you need to check your path for Dark Mod. Is the skin in darkmod/skins or mygamefolder/skins? And are you running Dark Mod pointing to the game folder if so? This assumes that you have re-started Dark Mod. I don't think it reloads skins with reloadDecls.

Thanks for trying to help, but I've got it working now thanks to a lot of help from Serpentine.

 

Here are all the four versions (which have been colored in DR):

Lowpoly: 256 polys, 512*1024 pix textures (diffuse, normal, spec) for the frame and 512*1024 pix diffuse for the body.

Collision: 36 polys

Shadow: 52 polys

 

There is a small issue at the top with the circle where I have mirrored normals on a flat surface, for some reason the normals get inverted (it's not really visible here but if you zoom in on the model you can see it). Is there really no way to solve this?

 

Other than that it's finished. What do you think about my most excellent privacy screen collection?

 

EDIT: Quick question: Is it possible to make Doom 3 save screenshots in another folder or to make it save them as jpeg or png?

Edited August 17, 2010 by Nosslak

[Nielsen74]

you just creat a folder namede screenshots in your darkmod folder, it should the save any screenshots in there!

[Fidcal]

Very nice too! I'll be using these soon as I can.

[Nosslak]

you just creat a folder namede screenshots in your darkmod folder, it should the save any screenshots in there!

Yes, I know. What I meant was if it's possible to make Doom save the screenshot in a completely different folder such as username/pictures/screenshots and preferably save it as jpeg or png.

 

Very nice too! I'll be using these soon as I can.

I look forward to seeing them in a mission. In the meantime you can find the model here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/m231y15vi183kf3/privacy_screen_by_nosslak.rar

[Fidcal]

There's a problem with lighting. I get a strange shadow when I light it with the player lantern or a candle. I can't see anything wrong with the material so I can only guess it's the shadow mesh - but that is beyond my knowledge I'm afraid. Perhaps someone can recognize the problem from the image below.

 

 

BTW what's privacy screen 2 ? Is that just an obsolete version?

[Baddcog]

that's strange for sure. I'd have to see wires/shadow mesh,etc.. to figure that out.

 

it looks like there's a sharp divide in lighting at the same spot horiztonally, just one screen is catching light above and one is catching it below. Does that 'flick' top/bottom when you move the candle up/down?

 

is there a normal map seam there? or mirroring?

 

Does the fabric have a sub-division across there? is the material completely flat?

[Fidcal]

No it doesn't flip over. If I crouch then the dark area moves down lower.

 

There is no normal or specular map on the central section - only on the frame which is OK.

 

It is odd that on the plain skin the shadow is reversed compared to the wallpaper ones. Yet the material is very simply just a diffusemap in both cases.

[Baddcog]

hmm, @ Nosslak.

 

Is that a 'double sided shader' that's on the screenwall, or is it 2 seperate planes of polys?

Possibly having double sided shader could make it light weird.

(not sure if the shading will be optimal on this set-up) If they are Doom will just add the extra polys , and they would be on the same plane, thus possible shading issue.

 

if it's 2 planes of polys, but they are right next to each other (no space in between - like Doom would do with two sided shader) they might be z-fighting in a way, throwing shadows on each other .

Would be good to space them out a bit.

 

This also brings to mind an issue I had with alpha planes on the door models. The hinge/lockplate alpha planes were very close to the door itself, at long distances they started z fighting (due to the engine dropping decimals I guess). If the metal alpha planes are really close to the material planes same thing can happen. (Most likely these will never be seen at really long distances like doors will be outside but it's something to look at as a possible issue.)

[Nosslak]

There's a problem with lighting. I get a strange shadow when I light it with the player lantern or a candle. I can't see anything wrong with the material so I can only guess it's the shadow mesh - but that is beyond my knowledge I'm afraid. Perhaps someone can recognize the problem from the image below.

I had that problem too so I added some extra lights and it disappeared. I just assumed it was my crappy lighting skill that caused it. I really have no idea what it can be.

 

BTW what's privacy screen 2 ? Is that just an obsolete version?

Yeah, it seems I forgot to delete that. I just used it to quickly copy the bitmap settings for each mesh. It doesn't have any shadow mesh so you probably don't want it.

 

that's strange for sure. I'd have to see wires/shadow mesh,etc.. to figure that out.

I'll upload a new file for you if you can't open an .ASE file. Would .OBJ work?

 

is there a normal map seam there? or mirroring?

There is only a normal map on the wooden screen so that's not it. I have used mirroring but only vertically, not horizontally.

 

Does the fabric have a sub-division across there? is the material completely flat?

I have made two horizontal subdivision on the fabric part but none of them are even close to that place.

 

Is that a 'double sided shader' that's on the screenwall, or is it 2 seperate planes of polys?

Possibly having double sided shader could make it light weird.

(not sure if the shading will be optimal on this set-up) If they are Doom will just add the extra polys , and they would be on the same plane, thus possible shading issue.

I have made 2 separate planes for it, both of the planes have their normals pointing outwards and I haven't made anything particularly weird with the material file either it shouldn't be double-sided.

 

if it's 2 planes of polys, but they are right next to each other (no space in between - like Doom would do with two sided shader) they might be z-fighting in a way, throwing shadows on each other .

Would be good to space them out a bit.

There is space between them, not a lot but there is some. I'm not completely sure but I think there is 0.2 Doom units in between them. Is that too little?

 

This also brings to mind an issue I had with alpha planes on the door models. The hinge/lockplate alpha planes were very close to the door itself, at long distances they started z fighting (due to the engine dropping decimals I guess). If the metal alpha planes are really close to the material planes same thing can happen. (Most likely these will never be seen at really long distances like doors will be outside but it's something to look at as a possible issue.)

This could perhaps be what is happening here but you'd think that it'd work when you're this close to it.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Nosslak

[Baddcog]

I'd think maybe either 0.2 doom units is too little space, or possibly the alpha plane material is casting shadows (does it have noshadows and noselfshadows in the shader?)

no shadows casts no shadows on other objects/terrain.

NoSelfShadow won't cast shadow on itself (usually we leave this on all materials as it's kindof an AO on objects - an arm casts a shadow on a torso...)

 

 

if the subdivisions aren't near there that rules that out.

 

 

I don't think the alpha planes are causing z-fighting, I just mentioned that because if you are say 1000 doom units (or more, not sure how far) away the metal details might start to 'flicker'.

 

and .obj file would be great.

[Serpentine]

Ah, Noss said he'd fixed this stuff up - I'm not 100% sure on what it is but when it was happening with the lamp post I cleaned up the model in meshlab to sort it out... I however cant recombine obj's into ase very easily, hmmm I'll see what we can do later/tomoz

[Arcturus]

Try using 'Apply Scale/Rotation to ObData' before exporting to ASE.

[Nosslak]

I'd think maybe either 0.2 doom units is too little space, or possibly the alpha plane material is casting shadows (does it have noshadows and noselfshadows in the shader?)

no shadows casts no shadows on other objects/terrain.

NoSelfShadow won't cast shadow on itself (usually we leave this on all materials as it's kindof an AO on objects - an arm casts a shadow on a torso...)

I had forgotten to turn on noshadow and noselfshadow but they doesn't seem to have made any difference at all, it's still black.

 

I don't think the alpha planes are causing z-fighting, I just mentioned that because if you are say 1000 doom units (or more, not sure how far) away the metal details might start to 'flicker'.

Nope, that doesn't seem to be the problem as the problem still exist when I remove everything else (frame, collision and shadow mesh). When I tried to resize it the problem persisted until I scaled it at least 20 times the width but seemed to work when I had rescaled the width of it by 100 times. Twenty times the current width is not acceptable (it would go way beyond the frames), so we will have to come up with something else.

 

and .obj file would be great.

Here you go!

 

Ah, Noss said he'd fixed this stuff up - I'm not 100% sure on what it is but when it was happening with the lamp post I cleaned up the model in meshlab to sort it out... I however cant recombine obj's into ase very easily, hmmm I'll see what we can do later/tomoz

Truth to be told I wasn't sure what you meant when you talked about the black model stuff and it looked good in my over-lit map so I assumed everything worked as it should. I had completely forgotten about this problem until Fidcal showed it. I'm pretty sure its not a problem with the smoothing groups this time as there is none on the fabric part (because it completely flat).

 

Try using 'Apply Scale/Rotation to ObData' before exporting to ASE.

That seems to have been the problem. I can't believe it was that simple. Thanks a lot, Arcturus.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Nosslak

[Arcturus]

Rotation and scaling done in object mode need to be aplied before exporting. I had this problem before.

[Baddcog]

I'll look tonight.

 

About smoothing groups. Speculation...

 

Does it have one or none? It won't hurt to have one assigned, it'll still light flat as it's flat. lol.

And I don't know if having none would cause a bad effect or not. maybe, something to try at the very least. (really all models should have just one smoothing group, it's just the seperation of lines that makes them seperate. In Max you can assign 20 to any poly, they don't export though)

 

-------

 

A couple things I'm thinking..

 

One, maybe try replacing the planes with a cube, it'll add a few polys around the edges, but if they help it render better..

I'm just thinking that maybe having to render the smooth group all the way around the cube MIGHT force it to light better.

 

Two, are both planes one mesh, or 2 seperate meshes? If they are one maybe split them apart and re-export (frame, frame alpha, fabric front, fabric back).

[Serpentine]

Truth to be told I wasn't sure what you meant.

Serp's terrible explanations and poor choice of words strikes again

 

That seems to have been the problem. I can't believe it was that simple. Thanks a lot, Arcturus.

Mystery solved, should fix up the mesh issue your streetlamp too.

 

Arcturus might know about the normal maps too... mmm

Have you ever run into problems with the directions in Blender's normal maps being incorrect? i.e some parts are swapped horizontally and others vertically, but all are part of the same normal map. Xnormal gets it right but due to the way the specific model is made it's too fiddly to paint out some of the projections that xnormal gets.

[Nosslak]

I'll look tonight.

No need to. Arcturus helped me fix it, it works flawlessly now.

 

About smoothing groups. Speculation...

 

Does it have one or none? It won't hurt to have one assigned, it'll still light flat as it's flat. lol.

And I don't know if having none would cause a bad effect or not. maybe, something to try at the very least. (really all models should have just one smoothing group, it's just the seperation of lines that makes them seperate. In Max you can assign 20 to any poly, they don't export though)

Blender doesn't really do smoothing groups actually. Blender just splits the edges, so there's no need to assign it to a special smoothing group or anything like that.

 

Serp's terrible explanations and poor choice of words strikes again

Yeah, but I should probably just have asked what you meant.

 

Mystery solved, should fix up the mesh issue your streetlamp too.

Yeah, I'll fix it later when you get around to posting the fixed normal map .

 

Here's the new (hopefully) final version:

Most excellent privacy screen

[Baddcog]

So was it just a bad normal map from Blender, and Xnormal was good? Always good to share the solutions so if someone else has the problem it's documented.