Translating the TDM GUI

[Springheel]

What should I be doing with that? Can I change it to the actual English inventory name, or am I supposed to be supplying a mapping somewhere from "#str_*" to the actual string?

 

I hope mappers aren't going to be forced to start referencing some list of numbers to choose inventory names...I wouldn't care for that at all.

[Tels]

I hope mappers aren't going to be forced to start referencing some list of numbers to choose inventory names...I wouldn't care for that at all.

 

Man, you really have a knack to get on my nerves. Some days I wonder if you don't want me just to stop working on TDM, and leave everything as broken as it is...

 

Mappers are never forced to do anything. They can of course produce FMs the old-fashioned way. And in case you missed my point, I am currently developing a method so they can continue to work the easy way in DR, and we automate the rest.

 

Anyway, if you want to have a FM that works with other languages, yes, you have to work with string numbers. (That is how it was with D3, and that't the only way it can work). You can, of course, use hard-coded strings like "Silver Key", but then you have to live with that:

 

* that somehow the code magically works with "Silver Key", too. That will work with a few generic strings, but it will fail with everything else

* That some other poor schmuck does all the work for you and transforms your FM into a working-state, so that later the translators can translate it

* Or that the automated script works flawless enough to work with that.

 

I know that as a mapper, I'd do this step in one way or another, to reach a wider audience for my FM.

 

(This is a bit like the difference between the writer who writes for himself, and the wrider who writes to reach an audience. You can make it easy for the "producing" part, or easier for the "consuming" party. The former might look nice for the producer side, but might well lead to the "I don't care for your work, because I cannot read Chinese" effect on the consumer side - and now think what the ratio of producers:consumbers is in TDM

 

Anyway, a hope is that DR will some day gain some support for this. A first step would be that DR loads the core dictionary. This way you could just type the string, and DR would replace it with "#str_12345" if it is already know. A second step would be that DR lets you maintain the FM specific dictionary, too.

 

So the mapper always works with strings, but the FM is saved with the correct dictionary. But DR is not under my influence, all I can do is ask for features.

 

Edit: Just in case that did not come out in my post, I am _all_ for making it as easy for mappers as possible. That is the sure-fire way to assure we get more high-quality FMs, and god knows, mappers have already way too many things to care for. However, I cannot do magic, and a bit of work will always be involed, unless someone writes an "FM Wizard" that lets you create "an FM in seven easy steps".

[Tels]

I brought up the readables editor today for the first time since internationalization was begun, and I noticed that the inventory_name defaults to "#str_02495".

 

What should I be doing with that? Can I change it to the actual English inventory name, or am I supposed to be supplying a mapping somewhere from "#str_*" to the actual string?

 

If you change it to the hard-coded string, than you will have that name displayed even under another language. The only way to get it to work under translation, you have to have a "#str_XYZ" number in it, and supply this string.

 

You can either choose a string from the core dictionary, or supply your own dictionary under strings/fm/english.lang.

 

(Edit: The other way is to work with hard-coded strings for now, and the use the script to transform your FM. That is WIP atm, tho).

 

As for the readable contents (body/headlines), I have not yet tried that with the I18N support, so I am not sure it will work correctly. That was on my list of todo for today.

 

I added a bit of documentation to http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Internationalization - if you think that the instructions are unclear, or are not enough, please post here and I will see if I can improve them. Thanx!

 

As a personal side-note: I think it might be a bit tricky to develop an FM with the current SVN state. Things are in flux here, and not guaranteed to not break - we only can guaranteed that for releases. If you don't mind occasional hickups, that's fine, tho

[ECHELON]

Tels, at page 8 there are my translated strings.

Edited August 20, 2011 by ECHELON

[Tels]

Here's the translated strings:

 

Thank you very much

[Tels]

Improved the documentation on the wiki, also created this:

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=I18N.pl

 

And tracked two bugs, one for finishing this script ( http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=2844 ) and one for core support for image/sound based assets http://bugs.angua.at/view.php?id=2843 - so that two versions of an ingame map or streetsign can live side-by-side in the same package, and the GUI displays the one that the current language says it should use.

 

The (renamed to I18N.pl) script now also has the ability to create PK4 files, generates a new darkmod.txt file, and copies over all files (that it doesn't modify) from the old PK4.

 

Next are the readables, and rewriting the .map file.

 

So we are getting closer

[Sotha]

Mappers are never forced to do anything. They can of course produce FMs the old-fashioned way. And in case you missed my point, I am currently developing a method so they can continue to work the easy way in DR, and we automate the rest.

 

Phew.. I was getting worried here.

 

I know that as a mapper, I'd do this step in one way or another, to reach a wider audience for my FM.

 

As a mapper, I'm interested in mapping. I'm not at all interested in translations. I therefore have zero or negative motivation to do any work for translations.

 

My maps will never be translated by me, nor will I do any extra work to make them translatable. I personally find the task of translating TDM of very low importance.

 

In the end, when the translation thingy is working and if someone really wants to translate my missions and they promise do it properly and with respect, they may do so. But if I make later an update, I'll be not considering any translations at all, so it will have to be done again for the updated version by someone else.

 

End of declaration. I know I may sound surprizingly strict, but I really have no motivation to do extra uninteresting work. Mapping must and shall be enough.

[Tels]

Phew.. I was getting worried here.

 

People around here worry too much.

 

As a mapper, I'm interested in mapping. I'm not at all interested in translations. I therefore have zero or negative motivation to do any work for translations.

 

My maps will never be translated by me, nor will I do any extra work to make them translatable. I personally find the task of translating TDM of very low importance.

 

In the end, when the translation thingy is working and if someone really wants to translate my missions and they promise do it properly and with respect, they may do so. But if I make later an update, I'll be not considering any translations at all, so it will have to be done again for the updated version by someone else.

 

End of declaration. I know I may sound surprizingly strict, but I really have no motivation to do extra uninteresting work. Mapping must and shall be enough.

 

With all due respect, you are a very selfish person. I consider your priorities quite bizarr. What would you say if the majority of all TDM maps was relased in russian only? Why do you not consider that getting a wider audience for your maps is a good thing? Or are you saying that "getting a wider audience is a good thing, as long as I have no work to do"?

 

Plus, I don't know how many months mappers like you invest in creating maps. However, I know that people spent *hours* tweaking their maps so they run better on low-end systems. But suddenly investing 10 minutes to make it easier to translate a map is a task that is too big? You are joking, right?

 

I looked at Springheels map, the FM dictionary contains 18 (in words: eighteen) strings that need to be translated, apart from readables. (Which make up the bulk of text, but are not more than a few dozend strings in itself).

 

That means you have to deal with way under 50 "things" that need to be changed from "text here" to "#str_123452". You don't even have to translate them.

 

And that is too much work for you?

 

I think that if I was a translator, I would certainly NEVER consider translating any of your missions, just because you display this very unhelpful attidute.

 

And in closing words, as someone who invests a buttload of work to make TDM a better thing, I certainly loose very very fast any interest in supporting you. You know, I invested over 10 hours this weekend alone on TDM coding and documentation. And yet you tell me you can't be bothered to make your FM so that someone not good at English can enjoy unless it causes zero work for you? *speechless*

[ECHELON]

Phew.. I was getting worried here.

 

 

 

As a mapper, I'm interested in mapping. I'm not at all interested in translations. I therefore have zero or negative motivation to do any work for translations.

 

My maps will never be translated by me, nor will I do any extra work to make them translatable. I personally find the task of translating TDM of very low importance.

 

In the end, when the translation thingy is working and if someone really wants to translate my missions and they promise do it properly and with respect, they may do so. But if I make later an update, I'll be not considering any translations at all, so it will have to be done again for the updated version by someone else.

 

End of declaration. I know I may sound surprizingly strict, but I really have no motivation to do extra uninteresting work. Mapping must and shall be enough.

 

never heard a thing such this.

[Sotha]

It is hilarious when I do voluntary work like this (using a lot of my personal time making missions for others to enjoy) and in the same notion I am called a selfish person. (Check my mission percentage from all the released missions.) I do appreciate it that you say it with "respect," though.

 

Of course it may be that I do such work for selfish reasons, ie. it is fun for me. Starting to fiddle with translation strings sounds not fun work for me. I work for fun, not money. Remove the fun, and there is no point doing any work. Also there is the issue that how can I be sure that the translator maintains the original thought, idea and artistic impression in the readables. I feel the original text is important and translations may be damaging to it.

 

I do not regret bringing forth my honest perspective to the topic and my apologies if it sounds unnerving.

 

Of course this attitude of mine may also be due to dwindling overall motivation: lacking the interest and enthusiasm. Losing the fun. Maybe I'd just need a break from all this. In the meantime, if someone wants to translate my stuff, go ahead. If not, then fine. Cya later.

[ECHELON]

I feel the original text is important and translations may be damaging to it.

 

I think the Italian translators can only improve the shape of the English texts since, in my opinion, the texts of the fan missions have never excelled in beauty and complexity of text.

 

I would prefer not to hear more that translators could alter or worsen the text.

 

only a poor translator could do this.

Edited August 20, 2011 by ECHELON

[Springheel]

Mappers are never forced to do anything. They can of course produce FMs the old-fashioned way.

 

Ok, I'm happy to hear that. It wasn't clear to me that this was the case, and apparently not to everyone else either.

 

I certainly loose very very fast any interest in supporting you. You know, I invested over 10 hours this weekend alone on TDM coding and documentation. And yet you tell me you can't be bothered to make your FM so that someone not good at English can enjoy unless it causes zero work for you? *speechless*

 

Map-making is not an obligation (and neither is working on the mod, for that matter). It's a tremendous amount of work that people do simply so others can have fun. If mappers want to make their maps translatable, I think it's great that they'll soon be able to. Not all of them will want to, however, and that's fine too (I personally share the same opinion as Sotha...it's not something that is on my radar at all).

 

I get that you're frustrated, but it's not like Sotha asked you to do this and then said he wouldn't use it. You picked this task because you think it's worth doing, presumably. What difference does it make if there are a few people who don't think it is as important as you do?

[stumpy]

I was wondering how the game defined strings in the text files, I would consider this method as being easy to fix spelling mistakes in fm text as all the text would be in one file and not scattered all around in different files.

[Tels]

Ok, I'm happy to hear that. It wasn't clear to me that this was the case, and apparently not to everyone else either.

 

Well, we have of course the obligation to not break existing FMs (even if itwas just for the reason that then we'd have to "fix and rerelease" all of them). So forcing mappers to do something different would not work from this POV alone.

 

Plus, the entire existance of the mod (and the people working on the core mod) is for me (you might disagree, of course) to serve the mappers, and by extension, the users.

 

Meaning if we serve the mappers, they build maps, then the users come, and then we get both (happy mappers and happy users). So the "mission statement" for me is of course to make it as easy as possible for mapper to do their job.

 

And with the entire translation work this is an extension - after all, translators are "mappers", too. Granted, they just build on the work of others, but they DO build things, they create new things for users we could not reach before.

 

So making things easier for translators is one of the core goals of the mod, too. Making things more difficult is not the goal. Esp. not forcing such a way.

 

Now, in an ideal world which each iteration things would get more easier for mappers, translators and users, while still adding new, cool features. However, we are hampered by the engine (bugs and limitations), but the sep. between engine and DR (which is sometimes quite getting in the way of easy mapping), by the lack of man-power, and of course, by the "we take 2 years to implement something, and in the meantime mappers used the old way" problem.

 

That means that it's not always possible that things get better AND easier for mappers at the same time. You have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

 

I had somehow hoped that mappers understand that, and cut us (the core team) some slack. (Oh and of course are happy that now more people can enjoy their FM). But apparently getting the entire mod, the content, the editor AND the ongoign support handed for free isn't enough, no, it also has not to get any more difficult at all. And this "zero tolerance" policy and the narrow-minded view ("I map, nothing else concerns me") is what rubs me the entire wrong way.

 

Map-making is not an obligation (and neither is working on the mod, for that matter). It's a tremendous amount of work that people do simply so others can have fun. If mappers want to make their maps translatable, I think it's great that they'll soon be able to. Not all of them will want to, however, and that's fine too (I personally share the same opinion as Sotha...it's not something that is on my radar at all).

 

I get that you're frustrated, but it's not like Sotha asked you to do this and then said he wouldn't use it. You picked this task because you think it's worth doing, presumably. What difference does it make if there are a few people who don't think it is as important as you do?

 

The difference here is that me thinks that FMs should be played & enjoyed by as many people as possible. On Linux, Mac, in Russian, or German, for color blind, whatever we can.

 

Whereas Sotha apparently not only thinks that creating the map is the end goal in itself, but also that anything that anything goes beyond that is not something he needs to care for, support it, or even just allow it. The whole "negative motivation", which sounds like "I'd even rather make it more difficult for translators" to me. E.g. we provide this (in my opinion great) feature, and mappers say "not interested at all, won't support it."

 

As I wrote above, the core team andmod are the whole service for mappers - but it seems that the other way around (mappers give something back) isn't even on the radar. It's an one-way street.

 

And that is something I think is the whole wrong attidue. Esp. giving the increasingly vanishing man power the core mod team has.

 

Just imagine how that discussion would have gone if that feature was required and always in since v1.01 - mappers wouldn't even know they would not have to do it. And they'd probably praise us that it is so easy to translate things. But now that it is new, there is suddenly the fear that it will make mapping "much harder".

[Tels]

I was wondering how the game defined strings in the text files, I would consider this method as being easy to fix spelling mistakes in fm text as all the text would be in one file and not scattered all around in different files.

 

The wiki article has an example:

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=I18N

 

And yes, you are right, it is really easy. Even translating things becomes much more easy with all the strings in one place, insofar even I have started to think about translating a few FMs, just because I can

[Sotha]

Whereas Sotha apparently not only thinks that creating the map is the end goal in itself, but also that anything that anything goes beyond that is not something he needs to care for, support it, or even just allow it. The whole "negative motivation", which sounds like "I'd even rather make it more difficult for translators" to me. E.g. we provide this (in my opinion great) feature, and mappers say "not interested at all, won't support it."

 

Bah! I never said I want to make it more difficult to people to translate my missions. I said I am not interested in doing extra work for it. You cannot possibly do anything else than accept it if the mappers do not want to use the features you create. Nobody have to use relight behavior if they don't want to see the trouble. Same applies to translations.

 

As I wrote above, the core team andmod are the whole service for mappers - but it seems that the other way around (mappers give something back) isn't even on the radar. It's an one-way street.

 

This sounds like you are claiming mappers aren't giving anything back to team. What an outrageous claim. I've been bughunting my ass off to give as-full-as-possible reports on strange new broken behaviors. The mappers give missions, which are the main PR currency for the mod. The mappers are the test puppets for new features. The mappers provide constant technical support for other mappers so that the team does not need to see the trouble. This kind of claims (mappers aren't giving anything back) of can be really disappointing and demotivating for people who want to help a lot and see the mod succeed.

 

And that is something I think is the whole wrong attidue. Esp. giving the increasingly vanishing man power the core mod team has.

 

Well, it will not be surprising if the man power is dwindling if people get called selfish for describing honestly their perspective on new features. Saying "Man, you really have a knack to get on my nerves" isn't probably helping either. Also underrating other peoples helping efforts can be most irritating. Most likely and logical course of action for an ad-nauseaum-irritated individual is to go away and use their free time on something else.

 

People should chill and avoid starting to diss other people or their contributions. There are certain individuals who have this style here, and it seems, unfortunately, to be spreading.

[grayman]

Are there plans to offer language-specific versions of core TDM art that has English embedded in it?

 

I assume that mappers including English-embedded-art aren't expected to provide alternate versions.

[ECHELON]

Sotha, a small question.

 

I'm italian. If i create a map and OF COURSE i write texts in italian, do you play it?

[Springheel]

Meaning if we serve the mappers, they build maps, then the users come, and then we get both (happy mappers and happy users). So the "mission statement" for me is of course to make it as easy as possible for mapper to do their job.

 

Great! I support that approach entirely.

 

That means that it's not always possible that things get better AND easier for mappers at the same time. You have to break some eggs to make an omelette.

 

Yes, but it's those cases where there might be some disagreement about whether the added difficulty is worth the added value. While I might think the extra effort is worth it, you might not, and vice versa.

 

As I wrote above, the core team andmod are the whole service for mappers - but it seems that the other way around (mappers give something back) isn't even on the radar. It's an one-way street.

 

This is where you lose me. Creating and releasing a mission is a HUGE amount of work, just as much as working on mod development. It's the most important way anyone could "give something back" to the mod. Without good maps, the mod fails, regardless of how good the code or models or textures are. In fact, at this point I think map-making is far more important to the overall success of the mod than new development (though I'm happy that there is still development as well).

 

So getting angry at a mapper simply because he doesn't want to use a new feature is pretty counter-productive, IMO. That would be like me getting mad if Sotha said he didn't want to use a new character I just spent time rigging and animating.

 

Having finished a mission myself, I can completely understand where Sotha is coming from. Making good missions is HARD. It takes a huge amount of work and there is a huge amount to learn. And if you're lucky, after all that work you'll get a thread with a few pages of praise that lasts a week or two. It's _barely_ worth doing. Anything that makes it more difficult or introduces something new to learn really needs to add to the payoff, and not everyone is going to value the fact that their mission can be played by new people they'll never communicate with anyway.

 

As long as things aren't being made more difficult for mappers who don't want to worry about translation, there's no problem. Mappers who don't want to use zone ambients don't have to, mappers who don't want to use relighting behaviour don't have to, and mappers who don't want to worry about translations won't have to. But they're there for those that do.

 

I'm italian. If i create a map and OF COURSE i write texts in italian, do you play it?

 

I wouldn't. Just like there might be Russian TDM missions, for all I know. If someone translated one and I heard it was good, I might play it. But I would never expect the mapper to translate it for me.

 

I assume that mappers including English-embedded-art aren't expected to provide alternate versions.

 

Some maps simply aren't going to be translatable without a great deal of work by someone. My mission has multiple conversations (not to mention the end movie) that would need to either be re-recorded or have subtitles written; the objectives and readables would need rewriting, and several graphics that have writing on them would need to be changed (actually, I think each of these points is also applicable to your mission). This isn't even counting the fact that all the AI dialogue in TDM is in English.

[ECHELON]

I wouldn't. Just like there might be Russian TDM missions, for all I know. If someone translated one and I heard it was good, I might play it.

 

If i not using a multilingual system, how could it be translated?

 

But I would never expect the mapper to translate it for me.

 

But tels not saying that the mappers should translate their missions.

He's saying that mappers should (maybe) convert inv_name "key" in inv _name "str#20000".

It's simple.

Edited August 21, 2011 by ECHELON

[plasticman]

That means you have to deal with way under 50 "things" that need to be changed from "text here" to "#str_123452". You don't even have to translate them.

Can someone please enlighten me, why it is so important that this little extra work is done by the mapper? When it is just a few minutes changing texts, wouldn't it be the same for a translater to start here? Or, let me guess, the idea is to provide one identical mission release that is sepearated from the language data, right?

 

I think the heated dabate is partially due to a minor cultural difference. There are countries where all the movies and shows get dubbed with a local language version, quoting Wikipedia:

 

"The Germanophone dubbing market is the largest in Europe. Germany has the most foreign movie dubbing studios per capita and per given area in the world. In Germany, Austria and the German speaking part of Switzerland, practically all films, shows, television series and foreign soap operas are shown in dubbed versions created for the German market."

When you grow up here in germany you get so used to it, that you take it for granted. While this surely provides access to a wider audience it is also true that in many cases the artistic value suffers from it. Games have a history of getting litterally raped by low-cost localizations. You know, Stephen Russell did Karras as well as Garrett, so in the localized German version of TMA they used the same poor voice actor for Garrett, Karras and his "Children", so all of them were permanently talking with "your" voice.

 

Just stating my opinion: I can absolutely understand when a mapper has an interest in keeping control over what happens with her/his work after release. When someone intends it to be in english and wants it to stay english only I am completely fine with it. I wouldn't be interested in a german translation anyway (which is -- no offense, rly -- the same attitude tels had just a year ago).

 

I think in most western countries it is not necessary to provide a translation. Anyone who lives in germany learns english in school. If your english is not sufficient enaugh to enjoy a fan mission, you do have a bigger problem than playing TDM. Like, what are those funny words all over the internet there.

 

However, I have a different point of view when it comes to countries where there are big communities that can not be blamed for their lack of english, thinking of russia, but mostly china. I may be completely wrong, but I think there is a potential of TDM getting picked up there and prosper. So I am all for providing the infrastructure in the mod. We will propably be happy about it, when it comes to translating all those awsome chinese FMs into English.

[jaxa]

Would it be possible to decompile missions and manually convert strings from static to dynamic convention?

[7upMan]

If I'm understanding this correctly, it would be feasible that the mapper releases his/her map with static strings, which the translator will then convert to dynamic strings. It would basically be a re-issuing of said map, but if the mapper is okay with it (and doesn't plan for a v2 or redux), it would be the best way to do it. No extra work for the mapper and just a little more work for the translator.

 

However, this approach doesn't answer another question: Who merges the different languages into the single map file? I seem to remember this being discussed a few pages earlier, and Tels wants to implement an automated system that receives the language files and implements them, but I have trouble imagining how this would work. Then again, I'm no programmer and don't have the slightest clue about this stuff.

 

Last question: In my line of work, the quality of a translation is decided by the final proofing stage. Meaning: No matter how good the translator is, he/she will always make mistakes, be it spelling or grammar or incomprehensible sentence structure due to deleting and re-writing parts of the sentence. So it comes down to the second and third quality control stage to find these mistakes and correct them. Now my question is: Are there any plans or considerations as to how the handing-in process of the translations will be handled? Will someone be appointed to be language lead of a given language? (I'm fully aware that we are a looong way from this issue being urgent, but I feel it's necessary to mention it ahead of time.)

 

However, I have a different point of view when it comes to countries where there are big communities that can not be blamed for their lack of english, thinking of russia, but mostly china. I may be completely wrong, but I think there is a potential of TDM getting picked up there and prosper.

 

I'm absolutely in line with that comment. Russians and Chinese tend to have difficulties to understand English, let alone writing it. For example, a Russian translation of DarkRadiant and TDM would open whole new doors at communities like darkfate.ru. Also, there is a considerable amount of players in Germany (ttlg.de) and France (http://ariane4ever.free.fr/ariane4ever/), and maybe other languages as well. Many of those players don't speak English well enough to understand the more complex lines or to express themself in an understandable manner (just think of lovely Shadowhide ^^).

 

You know, Stephen Russell did Karras as well as Garrett, so in the localized German version of TMA they used the same poor voice actor for Garrett, Karras and his "Children", so all of them were permanently talking with "your" voice.

 

Do you mean "poor" as in "the poor guy" or as in "ridiculously bad"? After all, he speaks Wesley Snipes and is hardly inexperienced.

[Tels]

Are there plans to offer language-specific versions of core TDM art that has English embedded in it?

 

I assume that mappers including English-embedded-art aren't expected to provide alternate versions.

 

Do you mean images with "drawn on" letters?

 

These "should" be either made translatable (by using text guis), or having replacements in different languages (which is a lot more complicated an work).

 

However, my current plans are only to replace all these in the menu, and not going further. That is a job for somebody else.

[Tels]

Can someone please enlighten me, why it is so important that this little extra work is done by the mapper? When it is just a few minutes changing texts, wouldn't it be the same for a translater to start here? Or, let me guess, the idea is to provide one identical mission release that is sepearated from the language data, right?

 

Yes, that is the plan. Updating already released missions is a major PITA because you need to re-upload them to the various mirrors, which not only takes a long time (esp. for large missions), but also is difficult because different mirrors are kept by different people.

 

Plus it means a lot of people will need to download the updated version, which causes a lot of traffic. Also, imagine you are a player and have to redownload 135 Mbyte FM just because the russian translation was updated, which you never use.

 

So it is of utmost importance that the FM data and the translation data are sep. before the release.

 

I think the heated dabate is partially due to a minor cultural difference. There are countries where all the movies and shows get dubbed with a local language version, quoting Wikipedia:

 

"The Germanophone dubbing market is the largest in Europe. Germany has the most foreign movie dubbing studios per capita and per given area in the world. In Germany, Austria and the German speaking part of Switzerland, practically all films, shows, television series and foreign soap operas are shown in dubbed versions created for the German market."

When you grow up here in germany you get so used to it, that you take it for granted. While this surely provides access to a wider audience it is also true that in many cases the artistic value suffers from it. Games have a history of getting litterally raped by low-cost localizations. You know, Stephen Russell did Karras as well as Garrett, so in the localized German version of TMA they used the same poor voice actor for Garrett, Karras and his "Children", so all of them were permanently talking with "your" voice.

 

I am not sure what the quality of dubbing or translation has to do with the ability to dubb/translate something.

 

We are talking here about the mechanism on how an FM can be translated. Nobody said the mapper should translate it, he just has to do his share to make this process easier.

 

And if you don't do this before release, you have just created more work for other people.

 

Just stating my opinion: I can absolutely understand when a mapper has an interest in keeping control over what happens with her/his work after release. When someone intends it to be in english and wants it to stay english only I am completely fine with it. I wouldn't be interested in a german translation anyway (which is -- no offense, rly -- the same attitude tels had just a year ago).

 

I think you misunderstood me and my motivation. I have indeed no use of a TDM in German - I am good enough in English so that I can play and use TDM entirely in English (with only minor inconviences). And this will stay no matter how good the translation is, I'd still prefer the English version.

 

However, the vast majority of people are not that fluent in English - do not think that the self-selected forum/community of mostly-english-speaking people here on this forum or ttlg represents the major gaming force, or even the world population.

 

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers

 

And for these people a translation is important. My GF f.i. could simply not play TDM in English w/o a dictionary open all the times. And you can imagine that she rather not plays TDM then.

 

I think in most western countries it is not necessary to provide a translation.

 

You thought wrong There are a LOT of people who are not fluent enough in English to enjoy a game in English. And of course they won't post here (because they are not fluent enough in English to even follow this forum

 

Anyone who lives in germany learns english in school. If your english is not sufficient enaugh to enjoy a fan mission, you do have a bigger problem than playing TDM. Like, what are those funny words all over the internet there.

 

What a non-sense. My girlfriend (and alot of other people with no real English knowledge) get along on the internet just fine. You do need to get away from the computer more and have to look over your horizon a bit.

 

However, I have a different point of view when it comes to countries where there are big communities that can not be blamed for their lack of english, thinking of russia, but mostly china. I may be completely wrong, but I think there is a potential of TDM getting picked up there and prosper. So I am all for providing the infrastructure in the mod. We will propably be happy about it, when it comes to translating all those awsome chinese FMs into English.

 

I think the "this FM is available only in Russian. You have to wait for western languages." is more likely.

 

 

Edit: This discussion remind quite alot on bringing the issue of color-blinds to people who are not color-blind. Or deafenss to people who can hear, or colors to people who are not blind. They always assume that because it is not a problem for themselves, and the next 3 people they can think of either, than that the entire issue doesn't even exist. Until that one day when they lose their hearing, their color perception, or even just their good eyesight, or suddenly have some one close to them happen this to them. Then they realize there is a world full of people with issues that they never have seen and completely ignored.