Knights in DM?

[JulioTheDanks]

The idea will prob by shot down or ridiculed. But I was thinking about how many missions have no kill restraints. I feel like a lot of players appreciate sneaking around, but I'm sure many of them enjoy the sword play and the precision archery. So I thought, why not put in a enemy that fighting is simply not a option. So I drew up a concept of a fully armored hammerite and dubbed it Knights of Hammer. Seeing as knights are basically medieval tanks the player would be forced to remain undetected or risk facing a invincible enemy (or nearly). On builder missions difficulty can change the amount of these enemies present so that players aren't stuck to no kill restrictions on high difficulty but instead get a taste of every dynamic of the game, avoiding detection and good old sword and bow kills. Concept of one bellow. I'm sure guard variants wouldn't have to be much different.

[SiyahParsomen]

or this?

 

Check this out:http://darkfate.org/view/details/files/projects/darkmod/gallery

[Shadowhide]

blender is a free modeling tool :

http://www.blender.org/

tutorials :

http://www.tutorialized.com/tutorials/Blender-3d/Modelling/1

here you go

[JulioTheDanks]

Yeah something along the lines. I can give a crack at blender. At least shadowhide something useful instead of a snide remark.

[Shadowhide]

Yeah something along the lines. I can give a crack at blender. At least shadowhide something useful instead of a snide remark.

lolz a bunch of useful stuff only for you !

http://forums.thedar...tions-demo-map/

http://forums.thedar...-item-demo-map/

http://forums.thedar...and-shadowhide/

Edited January 2, 2012 by Shadowhide

[RPGista]

There's in fact a rare kind of guard (elite) that has a body plate and a full helmet (looks a bit like a spanish conquistador kind of helmet), which makes him damn near impossible to beat unless a) you are able to hit him with an arrow perfectly through the helmet bars (done that myself on No Honor Among Thieves, lucky shot), or b ) you are pretty good in sword play and is able to outlast him by blocking and hitting the few open areas (arms and legs).

 

The one knight you drew is nice but would be literally unbeatable, maybe with another set of armor you could probably have more exposed areas one can hit between plates, even if covered with mail as they generally are, they would still be vulnerable (because mail protects quite a bit but lets some damage through). But yeah, a new model is an insane task. With some decent knowledge and using the existing ones as base, and probably free models on the internet, you could get something good, but I must warn you, 3d modelling is damn hard...

Edited January 2, 2012 by RPGista

[RPGista]

^ Shadowhide, he probably means something useful as far as your answers to him go?

[JulioTheDanks]

No im familiar with those I've looked at them. I meant in terms of pertaining to what I post. I'm not saying you've never posted something useful, but your pretty hard on me considering I've been a member of this forum for about a week. I'm just saying it would be awesome if you weren't such a douchebag all the time. You know what I'm saying?

[JulioTheDanks]

Yeah I'm watching tutorials now and its very complex. I found mapping complex too even with the tutorials as well. I'm better with a pen and notepad and a pencil and sketchbook. I wanted the knight to be invincible. Combat is not a viable option.

[JulioTheDanks]

 

 

The one knight you drew is nice but would be literally unbeatable,

 

More importantly is the concept good for about a hour of work?

[Nosslak]

More importantly is the concept good for about a hour of work?

I think it's pretty good. I'm no expert (far from it) at proportions or anatomy but I think the arms look very short, the head looks a bit to big (might be a big helmet though) and the legs and feet look too thin as well. Detail-wise I'd say it's pretty good. I think the shield could use some kind of trim on the top like on the bottom, albeit not as big as the one on the bottom. The greaves looks a little feature-less/boring. For an hours work I'd say it's good, but it could be better (it's a lot better than I could've done, but I'm mainly a modeler). Also it'd be beneficial for a modeler to have as many orthographic views as possible (at the very least a frontview and preferably a sideview too). I do realize that this probably won't go further than this (as we have the elite guard already) but I just wanted to give some pointers for the future.

 

Modeling characters is a lot of work and we don't have many members who can do it (I think it's only Springheel ATM, I could do it but I'm a horrible skinner so I don't know if I'd be able to finish it), but something that's easier to make would be machines. There was talk about making cameras and some other stuff a while back but I don't think that really took off but more general machines would probably be appreciated.

[JulioTheDanks]

I think it's pretty good. I'm no expert (far from it) at proportions or anatomy but I think the arms look very short, the head looks a bit to big (might be a big helmet though) and the legs and feet look too thin as well. Detail-wise I'd say it's pretty good. I think the shield could use some kind of trim on the top like on the bottom, albeit not as big as the one on the bottom. The greaves looks a little feature-less/boring. For an hours work I'd say it's good, but it could be better (it's a lot better than I could've done, but I'm mainly a modeler). Also it'd be beneficial for a modeler to have as many orthographic views as possible (at the very least a frontview and preferably a sideview too). I do realize that this probably won't go further than this (as we have the elite guard already) but I just wanted to give some pointers for the future.

 

Modeling characters is a lot of work and we don't have many members who can do it (I think it's only Springheel ATM, I could do it but I'm a horrible skinner so I don't know if I'd be able to finish it), but something that's easier to make would be machines. There was talk about making cameras and some other stuff a while back but I don't think that really took off but more general machines would probably be appreciated.

 

Yes I've been told my proportions are off. And usually my work is far more intricately detailed but I just wanted to get the concept out. I honestly should have checked previous concept are because I was not aware of the elite guard. But honestly I wanted criticism on the work more. Machines you say? Like anything In general mechanical? More specific. And would it be terrible if I posted future work here? So long as it pertains to the Dark Mod and I get as constructive criticism as this? (figures the one person I draw I dont use the golden ratio on has fucked up proportions XD)

Edited January 2, 2012 by JulioTheDanks

[Nosslak]

I honestly should have checked previous concept are because I was not aware of the elite guard.

I would love to do that too, but I have no idea where the concept art is stored (except for the very limited amount shown under the media section that is).

 

Machines you say? Like anything In general mechanical? More specific.

I'm not a mapper so I don't know for sure what they want but AFAIK they want bigger machines that are somewhat general purpose (we've just got about 5 machines ATM). The mod is steampunk themed so it might be a good idea to make somewhat exposed mechanics for the machines you make such as gears and pipes, etc. (while still making it possible to model without too many polygons or texture without extreme resolutions).

 

So long as it pertains to the Dark Mod and I get as constructive criticism as this? (figures the one person I draw I dont use the golden ratio on has fucked up proportions XD)

I'd be happy to give some constructive criticism next time as well. So yeah, good luck next time!

[SeriousToni]

And would it be terrible if I posted future work here? So long as it pertains to the Dark Mod and I get as constructive criticism as this?

 

So are you showing of new character models then? If you don't like Blender, then use 3ds max

[Nosslak]

So are you showing of new character models then? If you don't like Blender, then use 3ds max

I don't know if it's really a good idea to try to push him to learn to model (especially characters) when as far as I've understood he haven't modeled anything at all before. Learning to model, unwrap and texture at a somewhat acceptable level takes time (I'd guess it'd take at least a year until you could make something good, but obviously that's different for everyone). If he enjoys making concept art and he's good at it then that's probably what he should stick with.

[Baddcog]

I'm just saying it would be awesome if you weren't such a douchebag all the time. You know what I'm saying?

 

No, he probably doesn't.

[Baddcog]

Machines are needed, parts that can be combined would be great. I've started on them before but without concepts I always get stuff that looks like crap and give up.

 

We can make pipes easily in editor, and we have parts like gears of different sizes and levers that can be used on machines. The parts all need scripted seperately . ie: we just place a lever 'on' a machine. Then script the lever to move/trigger something like gears. The gears can just be placed however and scripted by themselves.

 

We can set up a working machine and prefab it so other mappers can just drop the whole set-up in place.

 

(We could also make animated machines, but that format is large....collision is hard to set up, etc...) So pieces are best.

[SeriousToni]

If he enjoys making concept art and he's good at it then that's probably what he should stick with.

 

But I don't get the sence of making concept art without realising it (e.g. models, maps, textures, ...)

[Tels]

I think it's pretty good. I'm no expert (far from it) at proportions or anatomy but I think the arms look very short, the head looks a bit to big (might be a big helmet though) and the legs and feet look too thin as well. Detail-wise I'd say it's pretty good. I think the shield could use some kind of trim on the top like on the bottom, albeit not as big as the one on the bottom. The greaves looks a little feature-less/boring. For an hours work I'd say it's good, but it could be better (it's a lot better than I could've done, but I'm mainly a modeler). Also it'd be beneficial for a modeler to have as many orthographic views as possible (at the very least a frontview and preferably a sideview too). I do realize that this probably won't go further than this (as we have the elite guard already) but I just wanted to give some pointers for the future.

 

Modeling characters is a lot of work and we don't have many members who can do it (I think it's only Springheel ATM, I could do it but I'm a horrible skinner so I don't know if I'd be able to finish it), but something that's easier to make would be machines. There was talk about making cameras and some other stuff a while back but I don't think that really took off but more general machines would probably be appreciated.

 

I don't want to debate wether knights in TDM are bad, or good, or needed or whatever, but I'd like to point out that the concept art here hasn't have to been totally accurate or realistic. I mean, look at images from knights form the medival period, esp. paintings from that era (1000...1700 AD):

 

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1644&bih=1033&q=medival+knight&gbv=2&oq=medival+knight&aq=f&aqi=g-s10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=731l2485l0l2654l14l9l0l0l0l0l226l1340l0.6.2l8l0

 

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1644&bih=1033&q=medival+knight&gbv=2&oq=medival+knight&aq=f&aqi=g-s10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=731l2485l0l2654l14l9l0l0l0l0l226l1340l0.6.2l8l0#hl=en&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=medival+painting+knight&pbx=1&oq=medival+painting+knight&aq=f&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=13108l13900l0l17954l9l6l0l0l0l5l313l1388l0.2.3.1l6l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=5366c1c08c1d800c&biw=1644&bih=1033

[Nosslak]

But I don't get the sence of making concept art without realising it (e.g. models, maps, textures, ...)

If he makes some cool concept art some of the modelers (Baddcog, Arcturus, Springheel or myself) might be interested and able to make it in a suitable quality for the mod (as opposed to someone who's making his first model).

[SeriousToni]

Would you use the existing skeleton in this case or would you rather use the motion capturing variant, if there comes out some cool concept art that enspires the modelers?

[Nosslak]

Would you use the existing skeleton in this case or would you rather use the motion capturing variant, if there comes out some cool concept art that enspires the modelers?

I'm pretty bad at rigging and animating (have barely done any of them) so I'm definitely no authority on this subject, but I'd probably use the existing skeleton in the hope that someone will come along in the future and make some new animations for that instead of using the mocapped rig which might not have all the animations we'd want anyway which would then force us to make two sets of animations every time we want some new animation.

[Springheel]

I would love to do that too, but I have no idea where the concept art is stored (except for the very limited amount shown under the media section that is).

 

The concept art section is the development forums, and isn't accessible to the public. Though I'm not sure there's any reason not to make that public at this point.

[Baddcog]

If he makes some cool concept art some of the modelers (Baddcog, Arcturus, Springheel or myself) might be interested and able to make it in a suitable quality for the mod (as opposed to someone who's making his first model).

 

Exactly, always easier to look at concept art, that everyone agrees would be great for the mod and model it, than it is to just model out of your head.

 

And we're always short on concept art.

 

It's also easier some times for someone to adjust a concept a few times, or a modeller to pick out certian aspects... than to revise a model in progress.