Key inside a vase: howto

[Bikerdude]

I have a simple request -

 

I have a vase and a key, I want to put the key inside the vase but the key cant be frobbable. I then want to grab the vase, turn it up side down and key falls out. it would also be nice if said key rattled around inside vase.

 

I have tried putting a "atdm:target_set_frobable" inside the vase but not touching it and bound that to the vase, but that just made the vase then unfrobbable.

 

ideas..?

[Serpentine]

How is the one in St. Lucia handled?

[Bikerdude]

ooh, didnt know there was one, so will open the map and have a looksee.

[Baddcog]

 

start, look up above you, on a window sill

 

 

Though I think it's just there and you from it, probably def attach or bind. Objects can't be moveable and have collision that is concave, so I don't think you'll get a key rattling around.

[grayman]

I remember the key popping out and me stepping on it the next moment, driving it through the ground and into the void. ah, well.

[Fidcal]

Try a func static of 5 or 6 collision brushes in a cup shape bound to the vase.

 

As for frobbing, check the spawnarg settings on the ones I did in St. Lucia near the start point. The vase frob should generally obscure the key frob. There is also the possibility of setting the key frob 0 at start then once the vase is frobbed it targets a script to set the key to frob 1. That's once-only though; if the player puts the vase down and tries to frob it again then the key would now be frobbable.

[Bikerdude]

Thanks for the info chaps.

[ungoliant]

the st. lucia method is probably best. put the vase out of reach and force the player to shoot an arrow or throw an object at it to knock it over

[Springheel]

The St. Lucia key wasn't a movable though. You had to frob it out of the vase; it wouldn't fall out on its own.

[Bikerdude]

Ah ok, so what other options have I got..?

[Fidcal]

Probably none. A moveable container has a solid collision model so you can't put a key inside realistically. If you want a moveable key to rattle around inside and be able to tip it out then my idea of binding a static cup of several collision brushes might be worth a try but with no guarantee of success.

 

AFAIK there are no other options except extreme ones for special cases. For example, suppose the container is within a closed room and the player can't take it out. Then you might try binding something, say a nodraw static to the vase suspended eight feet above it. Bind the key inside the vase. When the player picks it up upright the key remains inside. Turn it upside down and the suspended nodraw clips down into the ground. Inside the ground or a room below is a trigger or s & r whatever to run a script to remove the bind; key drops out.

 

An alternative I suppose might be to have a script running that tests the orientation of the vase and if upside down then it releases the bind.

 

I spent hours and hours trying different methods when we were doing St. Lucia and the one we used was the most stable. As I recall the vase I picked was shaped to give the impression the key might wedge and not drop out upside down. I might be wrong but I think originally it was a chamber pot which being more open would look odd if the key didn't drop out when turned over. I can't remember for sure which container we finished up with but I think it was that angled vase with the narrow neck. On the ground it is possible to frob the key from a certain angle. It was a reasonable, stable, compromise.

[Sotha]

Sounds really difficult thing to do. Could you revise the original idea to a more simple one? It might be a better idea than do a makeshift hack, which does not look good ingame.

 

Maybe the key is inside a sealed urn, which the player has to smash to pieces to get it? Breakable with any weapon or maybe even by dropping it on the floor. I'm not sure if that can be done with moveables though: our bottles do not break if you drop them..

 

Or maybe the key is inside a func_static jar with a moveable lid. When the player picks up the lid and peeks inside, he spots the key. The key would turn frobable when the lid has been removed from the top. If the lid is placed back, it would go unfrobable. This should be doable with he item-is-in-location objectives.

[Fidcal]

yeah lots of other possibilities if it's a static key and/or the container is static. Depends what Biker has in mind and if it's critical that the key be tipped out. Sometimes it just ain't worth the effort to get something a bit different to work unless it looks really amazing in-game or, as if with St. Lucia, to demonstrate the Dark Mod physics of knocking something down with an arrow etc. In Heart I just stuck a key in a static vase and I think shielded it from being blind-frobbed from the side.

[Baddcog]

I thought the key inside the vase in St.Lucia was fine. It showcases the physics (even if they are limited, they are better than T2). It seems realistic to me, the key is inside a pretty small tight necked vase.

 

Having it be in a smashable item would be weird. How would the player know it was in there. Why aren't all the other vases in the mission smashable? If the lid hinges it can be used to block frob on/off (though this system isn't perfect, if the lid stops a tiny bit open you can frob through).

But if you pick up and move the lid you'd have to have a stim set up to register whether or not the lid is there.

[Bikerdude]

Or maybe the key is inside a func_static jar with a moveable lid. When the player picks up the lid and peeks inside, he spots the key. The key would turn frobable when the lid has been removed from the top. If the lid is placed back, it would go unfrobable. This should be doable with he item-is-in-location objectives.

This sounds doable...will have a go and I still might be able to used my original idea with this approach.

[Bikerdude]

Ok created an FS based vase, with both inside & outside collision skins and the key would not drop inside. So I created a bigger version of said vase thinking the clip model of the key was getting stuck, but no.

 

So WTF is invisably blocking the key..? I have attached the model prefab,

small_large_vase.pfb.txt

[Baddcog]

Well, if it's an idmoveable i bet it's just creating a simple shell collision.

 

moveable collisions can't be concave (echo echo echo)

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Pretty sure what Fids was getting at was:

 

doesn't matter if the vase is object or func_static.

 

Make a vase.

 

Then make a box around it, probably need 8 sides. and a bottom.Size it so the key won't clip through the actual vase.

 

The box around it needs to be all collision texture. Now make each separate concave piece of that box a func_static (so you might have 9 of them). Then bind each one to the vase.

 

Probably make the vase itself solid = 0.

 

So you are moving the vase but it's bound parts are holding the key.

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Thinking about it, not sure that would work either. If the vase is non-soild would the convex collision still apply so it is a valid moveable?

 

Or maybe the object you use just needs a custom collision model (a square base is fine) so the entity does have a convex collision applied. Then you'd only need 8 attachments around the side to make walls. They are func-static collisions, all convex, and all bound to object with convex base collsiion.

[Fidcal]

Make one collision brush as the base and make it a moveable

Make the collision brush walls as one static and bind to the moveable

Make the vase a no solid static and bind it to the moveable.

Frob peer the vase to the moveable. This is the tricky bit.

I'll have to look tomorrow but I've had this working in some FMs though not an actual hollow container. For instance the luggable chest crates in the torture room in Heart.

Also I've got a moveable grid in the campaign.

 

I'm out of time tonight. Hang on I'll take a look.......

 

This is the cm brush....

 

"classname" "atdm:moveable_base"

"name" "StrawGridMoveable"

"frob_peer" "StrawGrid"

"mass" "25"

"model" "StrawGridMoveable"

"origin" "-1419 2388 86"

"snd_bounce" "med_metal_impact"

"snd_bounce_grass" "med_metal_impact"

"spr_object_hardness" "hard"

"spr_object_size" "medium"

 

This is the grid (which in your case would be your vase whatever)...

 

"classname" "func_static"

"name" "StrawGrid"

"bind" "StrawGridMoveable"

"frob_peer" "StrawGridMoveable"

"frobable" "1"

 

Then you'd need your say 4 brush walls collision brushes as another static also bound but no frob. If frob hilite is a problem maybe this does need frob 1 and frob_peer I'm not sure. tired.......zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

Still no guarantee it'll work as a container. You can only try it.

[Bikerdude]

Ok will look at this tomox when I get home, if I run into issues i'll be back!

[Bikerdude]

Hey Fids that didnt work so I'll leave it for the time being.