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Steam: Greenlight


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Greenlight  

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  1. 1. when we shall start presenting TDM on Steam Greenlight?

    • Imediately, classified as the "concept". We will change that on "playable" after going standalone. We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight.
    • After going standalone. We dont want to present something that cant be playable at the moment (via Steam).
    • Never. The competition is just too strong.
    • Imediately, classified as the "playable" (DOOM 3 Steam version required). We need to take advantage of the attention drawn to the greenlight.


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So, what is our excuse this year for not doing it?

 

 

You may want to read the post five up from yours.

I think general opinion is the same. Most everyone is on board with it in principle, but we want a trustworthy person to take the lead in doing the actual work of making the submission that knows what they're doing and is trustworthy to speak for the mod, and that knows our needs.

 

If only we could power the effort with sarcasm and indignation...it would be done already.

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You may want to read the post five up from yours.

If only we could power the effort with sarcasm and indignation...it would be done already.

 

So, the current excuse is that we don't know who will do it, plus a bunch of "uh oh what maybe bad could happen and how will we all handle it". That amounts to me to the same indecision as the last two years.

 

I guess that since I already pitched in the 100$ need to greenlight it, I would also be the person to handle the submission. But my guess is you will now reply that I'm not a "trustworthy" person and we will be back at the start again.

 

Every journey begines with the first step. With this issue however, we took over 2 years doing a pointless discussion on what-if and but-it-might-be and never dared to take the first step. And instead of trying to do the first step, the reply is again on the same line of venues.

 

That's very frustrating - to put it mildly. :mellow:

Edited by Tels

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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I don't know how I could help, but as I might want to get an indie game onto Greenlight in the future anyways, I'd be glad to help out Tels, even if only for the experience :-).

But you should walk having internal dignity. Be a wonderful person who can dance pleasantly to the rhythm of the universe.

-Sun Myung Moon

 

My work blog: gfleisher.blogspot.com

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Really, the most important thing here is crowd reception. You can only big yourself up so much, but in reality it's the audience that spreads word of mouth and that eventually greenlights you. Don't get overly concerned about the people doing the proposal, but rather the people who'll decide whether you get onto Steam or not. In that sense, I think now is the best time for it: you've had an update, you've had a ton of new missions come out and, well, that one recent game has left a lot of LGS fans wanting more LGS gameplay and has sent newer fans looking into the original LGS games. I think that if you're going to do it you'll never have a better opportunity than now.

Edited by Airship Ballet
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I think that if you're going to do it you'll never have a better opportunity than now.

 

Excellent point, but we'd need a couple of people to find out what's involved and to step up to (1) help with negotiations (Merry? ;) ) and (2) do the coding integration. For the record, I'd help out as a consultant if needed -- helping someone find their way round any parts of the code that they're not familiar with -- but I've got a load of work in progress for 2.04 already. I know grayman's TDM work is already mapped out for the next dev cycle too. We have other devs on the team of course. It seems a good idea but it's not just a decision, it needs people who are willing to step up and "own" whatever we need to do to make ourselves steam-compatible.

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Hah, well, while my silver tongue's on offer it'd certainly be more fitting for one of the founding all-stars to be the face of the movement. Consider me signed up all the same, correspondent or not: I really £*$"&£ want this project to go places.

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If Postal got on Steam than The Dark Mod will get there for sure.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Must admit I don't know anything about this process, and I haven't read through this thread because I'm working on something :ph34r:. Like everyone I use Steam as my game shop, but that's as much as I know about it. Is the approval done by players, or people with special privs? If players, is it just a vote counting thing?

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Must admit I don't know anything about this process, and I haven't read through this thread because I'm working on something :ph34r:. Like everyone I use Steam as my game shop, but that's as much as I know about it. Is the approval done by players, or people with special privs? If players, is it just a vote counting thing?

They have an FAQ actually: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=765&section=faq#developers

Far as I know it's all about how many people vote for your game. It's not precisely that hard apparently. A lot of freeware games get on the platform on a regular basis.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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You essentially get given something that's a blend between a blog and a forum. You have your page on which you describe the game and show media relating to it similar to store pages, and then below that you have discussions and comments sections as well as the number of votes the project has. The nitty-gritty comes once you're greenlit, but since this is free that would be relatively simple.

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Is there any technical thing to be aware of? Does the code have to be messed with in any way? If it's just a matter of submitting the same zip file we download from TDM website then I don't see why not either. I've seen at least a couple of people willing to manage that and the 100 dollar fee submission is not a problem.

 

However, something tells me it's not as simple as that.

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auto-detection of correct screen resolution.

That is convenient, but it takes only 5 seconds to change that in the settings. I didn't know this was a feature of the TDM by the way.

 

I think that the biggest concern should be for people who never read forums or news. They just see a new game. Install it and play it with whatever it has.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Well really I think there needs to be something of a firm go-ahead, to prevent this being yet another Greenlight necro.

What's missing is someone able and willing to find out whether we need any code changes and to make those code changes if so. grayman and I both have our work for this dev cycle planned already, although my offer to help any other volunteer still stands. If nothing happens this time round, I'll look into it when I've finished my current tdm projects because I agree it's important. In the meantime, I think absolutely everyone is agreed that it would be a good idea for someone else to do the work.

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I can't argue with that: if that's the only real concern it'd be wise to let someone as familiar with the code as those currently working on it ask the questions.

Edited by Airship Ballet
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Is it even legal to put The Dark Mod on Steam without whoever owns rights for Thief coming after the person/company who put The Dark Mod on Steam ?

 

There is nothing hard about putting it up on Steam and updating it. No need in Greenlight either if you know someone with publisher's account ;) (and if totally free games are allowed to be put up there anyway)

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It's legal because TDM doesn't use any Thief IP, or any IP owned by any company for that matter (that isn't already licensed). Companies can't copyright game mechanics, only very specific artistic or narrative elements.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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It's legal because TDM doesn't use any Thief IP, or any IP owned by any company for that matter (that isn't already licensed). Companies can't copyright game mechanics, only very specific artistic or narrative elements.

 

Have you forgotten lawsuit Bethesda vs Notch ? They got sued just because the game was about dungeons and used "scrolls" in the title.

 

Anyhow, I recall TDM team consulted with lawyers a few years ago (or so said the article about some law firm that specializes in FOSS cases). I wonder about it. If TDM was cleared by the lawyers, I could inquire Valve about getting AppID and publishing it on Steam. Some one from TDM team would need to be added to my account to push updates. Unless TDM team isn't interested.

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Have you forgotten lawsuit Bethesda vs Notch ? They got sued just because the game was about dungeons and used "scrolls" in the title.

It was specifically because of the word scrolls, and not because Bethesda wanted to but because they have to protect their copyright. American copyright laws are bizarre, in that if you don't really pursue your rights to your name, you can eventually lose all rights to it entirely. They had to do it again recently for a game with "Fallout" in the name. If they didn't, someone might start a new game called Fallout--that's completely different to Bethesda's--but because they didn't defend the word 'Fallout' in the first case, they aren't allowed to prevent it being used in that way the second time around and into the future, and then lose their claim to it altogether.

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Anyway, whatever Square-Enix might have thought about the issue in 2010, they can't just change their mind and sue five years later. Provided the case was even tried in a U.S. court.

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

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It was specifically because of the word scrolls, and not because Bethesda wanted to but because they have to protect their copyright. American copyright laws are bizarre, in that if you don't really pursue your rights to your name, you can eventually lose all rights to it entirely. They had to do it again recently for a game with "Fallout" in the name. If they didn't, someone might start a new game called Fallout--that's completely different to Bethesda's--but because they didn't defend the word 'Fallout' in the first case, they aren't allowed to prevent it being used in that way the second time around and into the future, and then lose their claim to it altogether.

 

Beth doesn't have a trademark on "Elder Scrolls". They have it as "Elder Scrolls". "Elder Scrolls" != "Scrolls". It was one of those opportunities to shake up a money sack (Notch), and they took it (I wonder if they got any money out of it).

 

You can trademark "The Dark Mod", but you can't trademark "Dark" or "Mod" or "The" :)

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Not only did we get legal advice when we went standalone, but we have worked closely with the holder of the Thief IP (Eidos) in a legal partnership. Can we put the legality issue to bed now?

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