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Well I was looking forward to Vampire Bloodlines 2, but there's been so many developmental stumbles so far that I have my doubts it'll have even a fraction of the quality of the original.

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Routine looks interesting   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAcAd1fUiy8

I don't hate Epic Launcher, but I do hate exclusivity, in general, hardware or software. I'll always be against artificially limiting access to cultural works. So I'm not buying any Epic Store exclusi

I have a few that I'm looking forward to: X-Rebirth Star Citizen Kinetic Void Limit Theory StarPoint Gemini 2 Take On Mars Tangiers SOMA (Frictional Games) Mount and Blade 2: Bannerlord Sir,

15 hours ago, Xolvix said:

Well I was looking forward to Vampire Bloodlines 2, but there's been so many developmental stumbles so far that I have my doubts it'll have even a fraction of the quality of the original.

Paradox, like most Western European publishers is liberal with its projects, but they're not stupid. I think they'll learn from Cyberpunk 2077's failure.

The people who aren't with the Bloodlines 2 dev team anymore - are not the people who make or break the game. Life goes on. Despite Bloodlines 1 being one of my favorite games, there was enough stuff wrong, that people from the old team could still do all wrong in Bloodlines 2. Not just the bugs and cut content neither:

If we're going to be brutally honest, some of the same mistakes with unfinished, buggy games, full of feature creep can be attributed to some of the same developers that worked on Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2, Fallout 2, Neverwinter Nights 2 etc. Coincidence? Unlikely.

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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I'm fine with jank (eurojank especially). Some of my favourite games have technical quirks and issues that wouldn't be seen as acceptable nowadays and yet are still considered classics. But the continual delays, the lack of any gameplay beyond what was shown in the 2019 E3 demo, the firing (or "letting go") of Brian Mitsoda who did a lot of the character writing for the original Bloodlines and was considered an important part of its development, and so on.

Hell they even needed to bring in a consultant formerly from Ubisoft who's sole purpose seems to be to actually push to get the game released, which to be honest doesn't bother me since at some point you have to release something (as far as Paradox is concerned with them financing it), but it's not a good sign of things running smoothly.

But you know what, maybe they'll pull it off and it'll turn out reasonably good in the end. All I'm saying is I'm doubtful that'll happen given the troubled development, but I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

Edited by Xolvix
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18 hours ago, Xolvix said:

I'm fine with jank (eurojank especially). Some of my favourite games have technical quirks and issues that wouldn't be seen as acceptable nowadays and yet are still considered classics. But the continual delays, the lack of any gameplay beyond what was shown in the 2019 E3 demo, the firing (or "letting go") of Brian Mitsoda who did a lot of the character writing for the original Bloodlines and was considered an important part of its development, and so on.

Hell they even needed to bring in a consultant formerly from Ubisoft who's sole purpose seems to be to actually push to get the game released, which to be honest doesn't bother me since at some point you have to release something (as far as Paradox is concerned with them financing it), but it's not a good sign of things running smoothly.

But you know what, maybe they'll pull it off and it'll turn out reasonably good in the end. All I'm saying is I'm doubtful that'll happen given the troubled development, but I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

In a way, "everybody's got that perfect game in their mind." You are correct about everything. I just meant to say that pre-ordering games is a bad habit. Pre-orders are unjustified expectations bound to result in disappointment. That's the point where discussions start to get heated. If it wasn't for buying products that don't exist yet, we wouldn't have so many complaints. "Everybody's got that perfect game in their mind." But there's so many other good games that we still didn't play, games, mods etc. that came out long ago.

For instance, I think that Clan Quest Mod (CQM) for Bloodlines 1 easily puts to shame a lot of the best content in vanilla Bloodlines. The stories in this mod opened my eyes about the critics that complained about the quality of the story and writing in Bloodlines. Sure, half of the game in Bloodlines was alright, but as that reviewer Noah Caldwell-Gervais pointed out - the characters and the plot twists aren't anything outstanding. I love the gothic atmosphere, the darkness, but is that enough to keep the game afloat? If it wasn't for the Unofficial Patches, Bloodlines would have been abandoned for all these years.

The picture will be clearer when Bloodlines 2 is released and we see what the game is like for real. It's the most transparent when you can "play it on YouTube" :D. This is where "that perfect game in our mind" shatters to grim reality.

Tbh people begging for Bloodlines 2 is the wrong approach. What Bloodlines really needed is the source code to be released open source to fix that damn game. It doesn't even work on proper Source engine. Therefore it's a miracle that the Unofficial Patch for Bloodlines made it this far. I would've never thought it would reach version 10.8 in 2020 when I first played version 6.8 for Bloodlines.

The same story where the original game is the best, repeats with many other classic games. No game seemed to surpass how good the original Deus Ex 1 was, or how great was Fallout 1. I don't know where it all went wrong. Yet it seems clear that if people would have set their priorities straight and would have asked for the right things - there would never be this controversy around Bloodlines 2 neither. People who played Bloodlines 1 still didn't get "that perfect Bloodlines 1 imagined in their minds."

Edited by Anderson
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"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Indeed. I should mention that I haven't and won't preorder the game. In fact throughout my gaming experience I've very rarely pre-ordered any games. The last two games I pre-ordered were in fact the last two Deus Ex games, and while Human Revolution was a good pre-order, Mankind Divided was not - too many technical issues on release, had to refund it. After a while the bugs were mostly fixed and it ended up being a pretty good game, but not at release. So I learnt my lesson without being burnt too much.

Never played the Clan mod for Bloodlines 1, just the Unofficial Patch. They're poked and prodded the crap outta that game even without the source code (which is quite impressive), but source code would certainly help. Might even help with porting to other systems like Linux, but I doubt it'll ever be released as Paradox don't seem the type to do anything unless there's a monetary interest. Hell there's a chance the source code no longer exists, that happens from time to time with defunct developers like Troika.

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I was really looking forward to Hitman 3 but was rather inattentive and only yesterday learned that it was out this month, and more importantly an Epic exclusive for a solid year on PC. it still looked largely like just more of Hitman 2 right down to the UI, so i guess that helps me to hold off til a discount next year. i can almost never find a reason to ever get a game first thing on launch for the full 79.99 CDN anyhow.

well, I say that, but I am also looking forward to the PC port of Ys IX Monstrum Nox some time this year which will likely use that exact price point. fingers crossed they brought on the individual(s?) that fixed up the PC version of Ys VIII for a much more solid launch of this one. 

some smaller commercial titles on the edge of my thoughts would be Gloomwood and the next episode of Hedon.

I think ultimately though, the possibility of some further Thief/TDM releases are at my most anticipated yet again.

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On 1/12/2021 at 4:33 AM, irg said:

I was really looking forward to Hitman 3 but was rather inattentive and only yesterday learned that it was out this month, and more importantly an Epic exclusive for a solid year on PC. it still looked largely like just more of Hitman 2 right down to the UI, so i guess that helps me to hold off til a discount next year. i can almost never find a reason to ever get a game first thing on launch for the full 79.99 CDN anyhow.

well, I say that, but I am also looking forward to the PC port of Ys IX Monstrum Nox some time this year which will likely use that exact price point. fingers crossed they brought on the individual(s?) that fixed up the PC version of Ys VIII for a much more solid launch of this one. 

some smaller commercial titles on the edge of my thoughts would be Gloomwood and the next episode of Hedon.

I think ultimately though, the possibility of some further Thief/TDM releases are at my most anticipated yet again.

All that hatred towards epic launcher, I don't get it. You get good sales there too and they frequently give you a 10€ coupon as well. What's bad about giving Steam some competition and paying devs more money while doing so? Then, there is also the fact that they give away games for free. 

Back when Steam was released, everybody was like "nooooo I don't want it, I don't want some company tracking all my games". Nowadays, nobody wants anything else than Steam. How times have changed...

The only downside I see is that I never know under which service I own a specific game I want to play, but that problem had existed long before Epic Launcher, with Battlenet, Origin, Uplay etc.

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3 minutes ago, STiFU said:

The only downside I see is that I never know under which service I own a specific game I want to play, but that problem had existed long before Epic Launcher, with Battlenet, Origin, Uplay etc.

The new GOG Galaxy client is a god-send in that regard, as it can integrate with your other accounts and list your entire library. I've used it repeatedly to verify if I really don't own a particular game or just forgot under which account it is :D

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2 minutes ago, cabalistic said:

The new GOG Galaxy client is a god-send in that regard, as it can integrate with your other accounts and list your entire library. I've used it repeatedly to verify if I really don't own a particular game or just forgot under which account it is :D

Oh really???? That's amazing, thanks! Gonna have to check that out!!

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I don't hate Epic Launcher, but I do hate exclusivity, in general, hardware or software. I'll always be against artificially limiting access to cultural works. So I'm not buying any Epic Store exclusive out of principle. I can wait :) And having an app to manage all other store accounts, so you remember what you've bought is a clear sign the system is broken, and probably a mess from a GDPR standpoint :D

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1 hour ago, peter_spy said:

I don't hate Epic Launcher, but I do hate exclusivity, in general, hardware or software. I'll always be against artificially limiting access to cultural works. So I'm not buying any Epic Store exclusive out of principle. I can wait :) And having an app to manage all other store accounts, so you remember what you've bought is a clear sign the system is broken, and probably a mess from a GDPR standpoint :D

I get that argument. So, consequently, you obviously are also not buying those tons of games released on PC only, exclusively via Steam, right? 😉

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There are Steam-exclusive games? 😮 I don't think I've bought any, not consciously at least. And I thought it's obvious that there's a difference between PC-only game being made like that for various legitimate reasons (budget, control scheme problems, etc.), and a game that can easily be multiplatform, but it's locked to one one console or storefront because reasons. Using shallow symmetry arguments like that is cheap trolling, you know ;)

Otherwise, I believe all console players, or other account owners should be able to play all the games being released, on a platform of their choice.

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I'm generally against exclusively as well. I will probably buy Oddworld Soulstorm in the Epic Store though, as that is a game I really want to play.

Let's just say that I understand why game stores or publishers strive for exclusivity. It makes sense from their perspective. And, if Sony don't want my money they can publish PS exclusive all day long. I don't care. :P

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55 minutes ago, peter_spy said:

There are Steam-exclusive games? 😮 I don't think I've bought any, not consciously at least. And I thought it's obvious that there's a difference between PC-only game being made like that for various legitimate reasons (budget, control scheme problems, etc.), and a game that can easily be multiplatform, but it's locked to one one console or storefront because reasons. Using shallow symmetry arguments like that is cheap trolling, you know ;)

Otherwise, I believe all console players, or other account owners should be able to play all the games being released, on a platform of their choice.

It was not meant as trolling. Just wanted to point out in a funny way that there are tons of games exclusively being published on Steam and the same goes for Battlenet. This used to be true for Uplay and origin as well, but both can now be accessed through Steam as well.

Admittedly, most exclusive Steam games are from indie devs that likely couldn't find a better publisher, but there are also AAA-titles, like Alyx or Left 4 Dead for instance. The only difference here is really that Epic pushed comparatively aggressively for exclusiveness in a time where people are used to buying almost everything from Steam. If Steam hadn't such a dominant standing in the PC-Gaming community, I bet nobody would really care about the couple of exclusive deals by Epic.

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For me it's rather about not having to have to install a gazillion of different clients. I don't care if there is one big store (Steam). What annoys me is that I have to install UPlay, Origin, Epic and what not to be able to access all games. 

And then the publishers try to do the same shit as well... Rockstar Launcher, Bethesda Launcher etc. Very annoying. AFAIC, they should just release on Steam. That's where the "party" is.

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1 hour ago, STiFU said:

Admittedly, most exclusive Steam games are from indie devs that likely couldn't find a better publisher, but there are also AAA-titles, like Alyx or Left 4 Dead for instance. The only difference here is really that Epic pushed comparatively aggressively for exclusiveness in a time where people are used to buying almost everything from Steam. If Steam hadn't such a dominant standing in the PC-Gaming community, I bet nobody would really care about the couple of exclusive deals by Epic.

Right now everybody and their mother wants to have their own selling platform. Instead of locking games to their launchers, they could release them everywhere and woo clients with competitive prices – which isn't really hard to do, if you want to compete with Steam, because it has almost everything in highest RRPs possible, unless there's a sale. Epic bought out several dozens of high-profile games and locked them, and that's why this was annoying.

That said, I typically wait at least half a year, as I want to get a finished product, so if it appears a year later on GOG or Steam, with all the fixes, DLCs, and usually for lower price, I win as a customer anyway.

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What Steam does is against the GDPR and general consumer protection laws in the EU. Especially region locks, cd-keys that cannot be unlocked in other countries and discriminatory pricing policies across various countries.

Copypasta but mostly on topic:

 

I was always more excited about the boundless possibilities of cloud gaming. But OnLive is the first and last one I played before they closed. The idea is awesome though. Who needs to spend a thousand $ on an expensive machine? Who needs the latest Xbox or Play Station?

Buy the worst office laptop - and use cloud gaming to play the latest graphically stunning games through cloud. Through someone's else's computer while it is streamed to you. I am sure that once this idea gets properly implemented, than the argument about Steam vs. Epic will become obsolete. Every platform will want cloud gaming features for themselves.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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My general preference is to have DRM-free games which have no launcher/platform requirement at all, apart from the operating system to run them on of course. So stuff like GOG or the DRM-free titles off of the Humble store for example. This way my ability to play the game is completely independent of the whims of the vendor. I don't have to worry about service downtime, Internet connectivity to authenticate the game, or the health of my account so that I"m not locked out of my collection of games.

The problem of course is that puts almost all of the control within the hands of the user and not the vendor, and that's just not gonna work for many large publishers with recent releases. Sure, eventually you'll get things released on GOG a few years later, but the vast majority of titles won't appear there until they've had their time in the light of Steam for example.

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15 hours ago, Anderson said:

What Steam does is against the GDPR and general consumer protection laws in the EU. Especially region locks, cd-keys that cannot be unlocked in other countries and discriminatory pricing policies across various countries.

So, basically, you are saying that third world countries should pay the same as we do. Or we should pay the same as them. Interesting. I'm afraid that's not how international economy works though. It can't work like that.

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55 minutes ago, chakkman said:

So, basically, you are saying that third world countries should pay the same as we do. Or we should pay the same as them. Interesting. I'm afraid that's not how international economy works though. It can't work like that.

Not me. The EU - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-antitrust-videogames-exclusive/exclusive-valve-to-fight-eu-antitrust-charges-5-videogame-publishers-to-settle-sources-idUSKCN1VJ26R

Arbitrage works in a healthy economy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrage

What Steam has created through its monopoly is anything but a healthy economy.

Attempts to circumvent arbitrage will fail. Anonymous knows. https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam/regional-pricing-vpn

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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You know why stuff like that is complete nonsense? Let's say there is a TV station which negotiates deal with different countries on broadcasting licenses for sport events. The EU says geoblocking is against their laws. Which means that the TV station doesn't have any valid base to negotiate different deals with different countries, meaning every third world country with third world wages and a third world economy has to pay the same as the richest country in the world.

See why that is just total BS? Apart from that, the EU can't pretend to rule everything. Engaging in non-EU country economics leads to obvious conflicts. And, imagine everyone here would buy cheap Chinese or Indian game keys. Then every single games publisher and developer studio has to close its doors. Great stuff. 

You know, it just confirms my conviction anyway. The EU consist of left-liberal oddballs which have no idea about the bigger picture, and only act from the stupid consumers perspective. That will only lead to the decline of everything which is positive in a wealthy society. Add Corona to that, and the prospects are really, really dark. They will destroy everything if they go on acting stupid.

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1 hour ago, chakkman said:

You know why stuff like that is complete nonsense? Let's say there is a TV station which negotiates deal with different countries on broadcasting licenses for sport events. The EU says geoblocking is against their laws. Which means that the TV station doesn't have any valid base to negotiate different deals with different countries, meaning every third world country with third world wages and a third world economy has to pay the same as the richest country in the world.

See why that is just total BS? Apart from that, the EU can't pretend to rule everything. Engaging in non-EU country economics leads to obvious conflicts. And, imagine everyone here would buy cheap Chinese or Indian game keys. Then every single games publisher and developer studio has to close its doors. Great stuff. 

You know, it just confirms my conviction anyway. The EU consist of left-liberal oddballs which have no idea about the bigger picture, and only act from the stupid consumers perspective. That will only lead to the decline of everything which is positive in a wealthy society. Add Corona to that, and the prospects are really, really dark. They will destroy everything if they go on acting stupid.

Lol, i'm not sure you can rubber stamp the left-right political dichotomy to the entire video game industry. Profit doesn't have an ideology.

But if you insist, the story with geoblocking products is the same for the motion picture, music and video game industry. Copies of these products are still to expensive for many 2'nd and 3'rd world countries. Nobody buys them there regardless how low the price goes. People will pirate anyway. Can't stop it. What do copyrasts come up with? Just region block them into space. Out of sight, out of mind right? Where's the right to information, i.e. freedom of speech? Copyrasts shall lobby everything under the brand of cheap moralizing. The truth is that most products are not profitable. They don't return investments. A fortiori, that fact can't be changed in the video game industry. An industry that rewards exploitation through every Skinner Box technique in existence - for profit. Mostly to hide that such video games are hollow. Region locks, sometimes translate into publishers, developers that care to reduce the price and sell the game to 2'nd and 3'rd world countries. If not, the video game will be region locked and players can't play the game on the client forever. This is not just stupid but hostile to people that may, genuinely want to buy that game legally: maxresdefault.jpg

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xcomregionlock.png

The way how this was normalized by Steam, Google Play and other stores just shows that there's still a long way to go to stop this nonsense. They didn't even care to offer the choice to pay double or triple just to avoid the region lock. They. Simply. Don't. Care. About. Us.

Sure, overall, Steam allows offline play but you can't play a game without first registering in Steam first. Most importantly - you can't do anything about additional DRM that the publisher, developers decides to slap on top. So, I think Epic still fights the good fight by chipping at that myth of how flawless Steam is.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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1 hour ago, chakkman said:

You know why stuff like that is complete nonsense? Let's say there is a TV station which negotiates deal with different countries on broadcasting licenses for sport events. The EU says geoblocking is against their laws. Which means that the TV station doesn't have any valid base to negotiate different deals with different countries, meaning every third world country with third world wages and a third world economy has to pay the same as the richest country in the world.

See why that is just total BS? Apart from that, the EU can't pretend to rule everything. Engaging in non-EU country economics leads to obvious conflicts. And, imagine everyone here would buy cheap Chinese or Indian game keys. Then every single games publisher and developer studio has to close its doors. Great stuff. 

You know, it just confirms my conviction anyway. The EU consist of left-liberal oddballs which have no idea about the bigger picture, and only act from the stupid consumers perspective. That will only lead to the decline of everything which is positive in a wealthy society. Add Corona to that, and the prospects are really, really dark. They will destroy everything if they go on acting stupid.

There are no third world contries inside the EU and EU-rules only apply to EU-members, i.e., when you sell a product in EU-contries, so your whole argument is moot. That being said, yes, not everything the EU does is fantastic, but there are tons of really good things that the EU made happen and the British government are utter dumbasses for their Brexit and many many Brits and other Europeans will now suffer the consequences.

But wow, the next topic derailed into a political discussion. Maybe we should start enforcing stricter on-topic rules. 😄

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There are a lot of key sellers which sell keys from low wage countries here. You might be correct though, the company HQ is usually in Hong Kong or elsewhere...

Very serious businesses. ;)

If I was the EU, I'd forbid such stores though. It's complete crap for all sides. Just for the profit of such backyard businesses.

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On 1/14/2021 at 5:39 PM, chakkman said:

There are a lot of key sellers which sell keys from low wage countries here. You might be correct though, the company HQ is usually in Hong Kong or elsewhere...

Very serious businesses. ;)

If I was the EU, I'd forbid such stores though. It's complete crap for all sides. Just for the profit of such backyard businesses.

The market finds a way regardless of any loose ends in regulations. The EU brings predictability and order after years of chaos and US hegemony.

If the customer wins, we win. It's a win-win.

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"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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