Scripting versus Editing: how do I lock a door via trigger

[Goldwell]

I think the real reason is that in difference to mapping and sort of people believe that everything that has to do with programming is some sort of magic, only applicable for those very few born in a golden city high above the clouds.

 

Ja, die Übermenschen!

 

But yeah I used to not like scripting because I didn't fully understand it but now that I have it's actually a hell of a lot easier to script then mess around in DR and I prefer it myself. It's not that hard and if we get stuck we always have poor Obs to hassle!

[Obsttorte]

The basic misunderstanding in this matter is that most people think of scripting as something that is much harder to learn then mapping for example, which is not completely true. Of course, learning how to create a little break in and steal some loot mission isn't a hard thing, but is this really the end of the line?

 

I mean, personally I see myself as an artist. And I don't want to step on the same level all the time. I want to develope, want to get better and improve my skills over and over again. And in regards to FM making, this does not only mean that I want to know how to deform a patch to create a nice geometry for example.

 

There are a lot of skills needed to become a better mapper. A good example are visportals. You have to understand them and therefore the way the engine works pretty well, to exceed the limit of what is possible in tdm mapping. Understanding this is already high above the "simple" mapping skill-level. Other points are material files, using definition to easen and shorten your building style, and make stuff you created easy reusable for other people. Custom particles, light textures and tricks to improve performance and so on.

 

Learning something new is always a challenge, but this is how you get better. And in regards to scripting, the essential question is not if one wants to use it in his missions. This is, to be honest, completely unimportant. But the way of thinking that builds the foundation of scripting or programming in general, differs completely from the "normal" thinking we use in everydays life. So even if you don't use it, learning it will add a new perspective to your way of thinking, and thus your way of mission design. At least, it should not get worse doing so

 

I always interpreted words like "this is to complicated for me" as lame excuses for people, who are either to lazy to learn new things or who simple do not provide enough trust in their mental capabilities. As a mathematician, I always encountered this position, but in the end it has always rpoven that everybody can understand everything. And especially understanding something that is "hard" to understand or takes a long time to do so, will give you this very satisfying and motivating feeling, which drives us in our lives and motivates us to develope beyond our current state and get even better then we already are.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I need to get rid of this.

 

On another note, the more mappers that are capable of scripting the less questions I have to answer.

Ja, die Übermenschen!

I'm one

[Dragofer]

The surprising thing is that on one level scripting can be very simple, as simple as $Door1.Close();, or sys.trigger($Something);. When combined with stim responses, which can be set to do a great variety of things when triggered, you can come very far with minimal knowledge. What's probably intimidating is when one sees someone like Obsttorte creating surveillance cameras, which can make people think they need to read their way up to that level before their scripts can have a meaningful impact on their mission.

 

When I finally cracked scripting I was eager to try its potential for myself in visual storytelling, new kinds of objectives and such, and that no doubt shifted my mission more to the interactive story side compared to if I had used the time to make more rooms and patrol routes. But to me that was very important, both in terms of learning the system for the future and also trying something different. T2 is full of exotic missions such as Ruins of Originia, Eclipsed, Incubus, Daytime Eclipse, which all use intricate scripting to make radical departures from the playstyle we have come to know so thoroughly in heists and city missions. For me, all of these make the Thief fan works that much more engaging, creative and unique.

 

In the DarkMod I only really see horror missions, Inn Business and maybe the assassination missions that significantly deviate from the conventional formula for a Thief mission. I find this surprising, because the platform seems much easier to customize than the antiquated DarkEngine. Even if the gameplay is good, after 80 missions I start to look for something else. A submarine maybe, or a mission in faraway foreign lands. Something that can make the mind dream. Maybe this has to do with people hesitating to come to terms with scripts, to make real their own vision of how a Thief mission should be.

[Goldwell]

The surprising thing is that on one level scripting can be very simple, as simple as $Door1.Close();, or sys.trigger($Something);. When combined with stim responses, which can be set to do a great variety of things when triggered, you can come very far with minimal knowledge. What's probably intimidating is when one sees someone like Obsttorte creating surveillance cameras, which can make people think they need to read their way up to that level before their scripts can have a meaningful impact on their mission.

 

When I finally cracked scripting I was eager to try its potential for myself in visual storytelling, new kinds of objectives and such, and that no doubt shifted my mission more to the interactive story side compared to if I had used the time to make more rooms and patrol routes. But to me that was very important, both in terms of learning the system for the future and also trying something different. T2 is full of exotic missions such as Ruins of Originia, Eclipsed, Incubus, Daytime Eclipse, which all use intricate scripting to make radical departures from the playstyle we have come to know so thoroughly in heists and city missions. For me, all of these make the Thief fan works that much more engaging, creative and unique.

 

In the DarkMod I only really see horror missions, Inn Business and maybe the assassination missions that significantly deviate from the conventional formula for a Thief mission. I find this surprising, because the platform seems much easier to customize than the antiquated DarkEngine. Even if the gameplay is good, after 80 missions I start to look for something else. A submarine maybe, or a mission in faraway foreign lands. Something that can make the mind dream. Maybe this has to do with people hesitating to come to terms with scripts, to make real their own vision of how a Thief mission should be.

 

ERH+ is actually working on a submarine mission http://forums.thedar...657#entry344657

 

I know that Moonbo is making a very different play style mission as well and the FM i'm working on has many different gameplay mechanics in it as well as having classic break and enter Thief parts.

 

I think as time goes on and FM authors get bored of the typical formula things start changing up

 

edit: oh and another good one that just came out that has a very different style/feel than the normal is Dragofers One Step Too Far FM http://forums.thedar...gofer-20140804/

Edited August 6, 2014 by Goldwell

[Obsttorte]

Even if the gameplay is good, after 80 missions I start to look for something else.

Not to mention that after a mapper has released 2-3 "classic" missions, he may also want to do something else.

[SteveL]

For my part, I reckon scripting is not only desirable, it's really important for a project to remain interesting. People can try out new ideas using it, and if they become popular enough they can be supported by the editor. We can easily add new scripted capabilities to the editor using entity defs and script objects, no need to change DR or TDM game code, so it helps with that bottleneck too. My earlier point wasn't to deplore scripting, it was only that we should make sure it's not seen as a requirement for mapping because that would exclude a lot of mappers who lack the time (or desire) to learn it, and like Airship noted, all the key ingredients for a great mission are already in place with no need for bespoke scripts. In my own case, if TDM lacked a rich scripting capability, I'd have remained a player forever and never downloaded DR or found this forum. I'll never compete with the masters on mission design or looks, but scripting stuff gives me a chance to contribute something new. And for anyone thinking they might like to give it a go, I agree with Obs, do it! Coding stuff and seeing it work is the most fun anyone can possibly have by themselves

[demagogue]

The scripting part of my "Editing FAQ" wiki entry may be helpful for some people. I wrote it with scripting newbies in mind.

http://wiki.thedarkm...To%29#Scripting

[SteveL]

Cool, I completely missed that one as it's not listed in category:scripting.

There's one point I'd change in it: the first two answers use the phrase "script object" several times when they'd be better just saying "script" or "script function". "scriptobject" is a spawnarg in TDM that points to a specialised kind of script that's set up differently from the one being talked about, so it could cause confusion.

[Bikerdude]

So who has some free time and skype and wan'st to give me some basic lessons in scripting..?

[Obsttorte]

I can

[Bikerdude]

Grand, I'll pm you on skype at some point then.

[Obsttorte]

PM me here, too, as I normally don't run Skype.