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Updated carpet textures


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On 6/4/2021 at 5:04 PM, AluminumHaste said:

These won't be replacements for the current textures, but will be sat alongside the low res ones. They have been used in almost every mission in different ways, sometimes in non conventional ways, and I don't want to break the aesthetics of the current missions.

Is it really possible to break existing missions just by providing higher-res replacements of existing textures which are otherwise identical in terms of pattern and appearance? I suppose there might be problems if an artist has done something really weird like zooming into particular pixels to colour part of a model, but that seems an unlikely use case. Increasing asset resolution seems like the sort of safe change that the mod team should be able to make without much objection.

The danger of having separate versions (other than a slight increase in total mod size) is that mappers might not notice or realise that there are specific "HD" versions that they need to select, and inadvertently release a new map using needlessly low-res textures.

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It's not straight up higher res. I've had to manually adjust some of the textures to make them better. The red carpet which is very popular, I completely remade the end part.

So while the transition replacement is drop in:

Z0IixEO.jpg

 

The end one isn't:

CzEl7cX.jpg

 

 

So I can't just replace the existing one, as it will break it for all maps that use that texture.

The others, the changes are much more subtle, usually involves warping the image in photoshop to get the parts of the texture better aligned, but different enough.
There are some mappers who prefer the low res look, Kingsal being one of them.

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I also had the scale wrong on the red carpet end piece. It's actually this size:

WXOjfVd.jpg

So can't just replace it, it's different dimensions.

Another problem I don't know if I'm going to bother fixing, is that some of the carpet textures don't align at all, as this is how they are originally uploaded to TDM,
I can see how the middle transition texture was made from parts of the end texture, but they don't quite line up.

wACTvOR.jpg

 

 

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BTW, is non power of 2 still an issue with modern hardware?

I'm trying to recreate this carpet texture into something more usable, but I can't get it square and work right.

EDIT: I mean the texture works fine in game, but DarkRadiant shows black texture in render view, I'm assuming it's because it's np2

 

EDIT: Hmm, might still be problematic with mipmaps:

Most of modern GPUs support non-power of two (NPOT) textures and handle them well. Performance drop is quite little. But there are few problems to consider:

  • When using NPOT texture it takes more space in RAM, just like next-sized POT texture. Technically you just waste the space that could be used to put something in there;

  • NPOT textures may be handled noticeably slower (in OpenGL 2.1 I had up to 30% performance drop) compared to POT of next size;

  • Older GPUs and on-board/on-chip GPUs are not so advanced, they often support NPOT textures, but support is quite slow and clumsy;

  • Even older GPUs may refuse to accept/display NPOT textures at all;

  • There could be edging artifacts caused by mip-map interpolation, your 25x25 texture might have a black fringe where pixels were added to stuff it to 32x32 size.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Note that non-power-of-two and non-square are two different things. In general it's never really been a problem (AFAIK) to have non-square textures that use powers of two for each side (e.g. 1024x512, 256x8 etc), and you might well find that you can fit your textures into this scheme.

There's also a difference between non-power-of-two and not-a-multiple-of-anything-sane — you can probably get away with 768x768 (not a power of two, but still a multiple of 256) but I really wouldn't try 757x343 or something weird like that.

In any case, if DR is showing a black texture and there is definitely nothing wrong with the material def or texture itself, that should be reported as a bug I think. If the GPU supports it then DR should too.

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4 hours ago, AluminumHaste said:

There are some mappers who prefer the low res look, Kingsal being one of them.

I don’t necessary prefer a low res look, but a clean, less noisy look.  Many of the dark mods  normal maps were made incorrectly and add a lot of high frequency detail and noise.
 

 It would actually be beneficial to have more  visually different carpet textures rather than HD versions of the current ones.  I would suggest releasing these as a “texture pack” to the community to use rather than increasing the mod size and creating the _HD convention.

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Sorry, that's what I meant. To me, missing normal maps or low res normal maps look yucky. But I also understand your POV too with too noisy, you can get awful texture shimmering.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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12 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

Sorry, that's what I meant. To me, missing normal maps or low res normal maps look yucky. But I also understand your POV too with too noisy, you can get awful texture shimmering.

Yeah exactly, It also depends on the program used to generate the normals. A lot of "auto generating" programs have heavy default settings and do weird things.

I do think these HD version look good and I wonder really how much trouble it would cause replacing the old ones. The risky thing here is like you said, these are used in tons and tons of missions so the potential for trouble is high.

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I also make sure to always normalize the normalmaps, and adjust it to make sense for the texture. There's no a reason a sanded, polished wood surface should have lots of bumps that contour to the wood grain, etc.

But carpets have a LOT of texture to them, especially old style carpets, so the missing or bad normal maps really stood out.

And I just checked, the original carpet textures were 512x256, that's just a little bit bigger than the thumbnails used in Dark Radiant lol. Now, you're taking that tiny image and stretching it across most of your screen, it's going to look awful.

Also, it's not 2006 anymore, we can get away with larger textures.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Sure, this is first and foremost an effort to make high res versions of what we already have.

After that, I'll look into making new ones.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ugh, spent a week redoing these carpets by hand:

4mrMwVL.jpg

 

Now I just have to get rid of the seam between them, I think it's a photoshop 2020 glitch.

EDIT: You can see how the original texture didn't line up:

JzAXdEQ.jpg

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