Allow broadhead arrows to break glass lamps

[grodenglaive]

23 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

oh duh, that was a stupid question on my part. On my phone it looked like shards of glass.

Well, it's over fast enough it's hard to see and the Youtube compression probably loses a lot of the detail.

[grodenglaive]

4 hours ago, MirceaKitsune said:

Oh wow, that is amazing! It must require a custom script I imagine? Didn't think that was possible even with one and the S/R system, that's very impressive. Definitely curious about a few things:

1. Does it distinguish between collisions with the glass and frame? If the arrow hits a metal part it shouldn't do anything, it should only break if the glass in particular was hit.
2. If the lamp is triggered by a switch, does flipping it no longer turn the light on once it's broken?
3. Can you use a broken skin rather than model? With some lamps it would be easier to only change the skin and replace the glass, of course both should be supported based on what works best for each lamp.

Thanks. No scripts were harmed in the making of this. It's pretty simple to do because of the broken and brake spawn args.

1. It does distinguish, but I don't even know why  It must be a property inherent in the glass material.

2.  Good question, I'll have to get back to you.

3.  I don't know how to use skins. OK, I tested it on a stock model. That doesn't work. If you use the same model for "broken", but just change the skin in the properties, it also applies the skin to the unbroken model (and vice versa).

Oh, I just discovered you don't even need to put a stim/response on the arrow. It automatically breaks glass when you add the break and broken spawn arg on the object (you still need to make a broken model of course). Isn't that handy?

Edited March 25 by grodenglaive

[grodenglaive]

3 hours ago, MirceaKitsune said:

If the lamp is triggered by a switch, does flipping it no longer turn the light on once it's broken?

Adding a switch breaks it. It would require a workaround since the switch acts like a trigger, similar to the arrow. Interestingly If you turn it off and on again the bulb shatters, but the light also comes on.   

[High John]

On 3/22/2024 at 6:40 PM, chakkman said:

Which would make me ask for the point of doing such a thing though. If you alert half the map anyway, then you can just shout "Hey ho! I'm the Thief! Here I am!".  

In my opinion - interesting suggestion. Would it make sense in a real life scenario? Nope, not at all.

It would make sense in a real life scenario if you wanted to create a diversion . . .

[chakkman]

Yes. But, in this case, it's rather about creating darkness. Otherwise you could just break a window, throw a bottle, or whatever.

[MirceaKitsune]

6 hours ago, High John said:

It would make sense in a real life scenario if you wanted to create a diversion . . .

Part of my point was that breakable electric lights could have an interesting contrast: They'd attract attention while also making it harder for you to get caught. When broken they should create a loud popping noise that makes nearby AI walk to them and investigate the disturbance, if they see the broken lamp even draw their swords and do an alert search... however once they've calmed down and moved on, you're rewarded with the ability to sneak there without being seen.

The player will have one of two typical strategies: Either wait until there's no guards nearby in order to shoot a lamp, or shoot such lights if it's better to have guards searching but not able to see you compared to the guards being calm but able to spot you in bright light. Mappers would themselves place those lamps in areas where they want to create this particular challenge.

[taffernicus]

On 3/23/2024 at 10:27 AM, MirceaKitsune said:

It might then be best to add it to new light models designed for the purpose. The visual cue should be making them more glassy and fragile looking: Existing lamps look pretty solid, we can argue those were made of reinforced glass built to withstand powerful impacts, something something Inventors Guild... in contrast we'd have a few lamps with very transparent glass that show the light bulb inside, their design shows their fragility and makes it clear those are meant to be shot.

how about the varying size and shape of the lamp post / the pier mount? could it be used to denote whether the lamp can be destroyed or not ?

i have an idea which may or may not be intuitively practicable. This might also ruin the immersiveness : Put a brand label on the lamp post. Each brand have their own visual brand identity and comes with pros and cons. For example : KarrassElektrischen lamp post product is known to have a fragile glass but the light bulb has a strong filament compared to other competitor. Builderhouseware lamp post is made with a solid and firm glass , immune to corrosive acid but the light bulb filament is weak . InventorGuild brand have the best for both worlds.

For starter, use your spyglass and zoom in into the the brand label attached to the lamp post. Once you have identified the brand, start shooting the glass

 

Edited May 7 by taffernicus
typo

[taffernicus]

A stealth way to do this is probably to overvolt the streetlights, there should be a way to do so but tell the player in a roundabout way

[kin]

How about pliers for cutting wires to deactivate electric lights? That's a stealthier approach with the cost of spending time to find the cable box or the pliers.

Edited May 8 by kin

[MirceaKitsune]

5 hours ago, kin said:

How about pliers for cutting wires to deactivate electric lights? That's a stealthier approach with the cost of spending time to find the cable box or the pliers.

Hmmm. I still like my idea of shooting broadhead arrows at fragile lights to turn them off, but I like your idea as well! It's not like we couldn't use a new item, and it's something mappers would have control of by only placing it on levels where we want to have this behavior. But then we'll have to make all lights frobable by default so even this approach would be a little complicated.

[wesp5]

58 minutes ago, MirceaKitsune said:

Hmmm. I still like my idea of shooting broadhead arrows at fragile lights to turn them off, but I like your idea as well! It's not like we couldn't use a new item, and it's something mappers would have control of by only placing it on levels where we want to have this behavior.

While I really like new things in TDM, I fear that as long as these ideas are not part of the core mod, only very mission authors will use them...

[teknokrat]

I don't know about actually breaking lights, but I have considered the idea of using water arrows on electric lights to short circuit them temporarily, making them flicker, and go out temporarily. How much they flicker could be set by the modder, and depend on difficulty level.

[wesp5]

1 hour ago, teknokrat said:

I don't know about actually breaking lights, but I have considered the idea of using water arrows on electric lights to short circuit them temporarily, making them flicker, and go out temporarily.

This sounds like an easier solution because it needs no breaking glass models or particles. Still it needs all electrical lights to be switchable though and I don't know if this is set globally or in the missions...

Edited May 8 by wesp5

[snatcher]

23 hours ago, teknokrat said:

I don't know about actually breaking lights, but I have considered the idea of using water arrows on electric lights to short circuit them temporarily, making them flicker, and go out temporarily [...]

I like this very much. It goes in line with the idea that players become more creative when they can alter the world around them temporally instead of permanently. Each time is a different challenge.

It will never happen globally, though. Good news is that we have Shadow Arrows.

[MirceaKitsune]

On 5/8/2024 at 10:17 PM, teknokrat said:

I don't know about actually breaking lights, but I have considered the idea of using water arrows on electric lights to short circuit them temporarily, making them flicker, and go out temporarily. How much they flicker could be set by the modder, and depend on difficulty level.

I've actually thought of this exact thing as well! It would be both easier to manage and equally interesting as a mechanic. Very easy concept to implement too: Just add a stim that temporarily changes the light's sound shader for a few seconds before reverting back to normal one, give lights an s_shader_wet spawnarg and include a low volume flickering noise... it should make guards a little suspicious but less than the noise arrow in this case.

Just remembered this was in fact a plan for my flash arrow, a custom weapon I've been asking to get included in vanilla but so far it's been forgotten. I believe the last version only blinds guards using the flash bomb effect, but one of the goals was to have lights temporarily turn off or flicker before coming back on after a few seconds, though this would require a custom script at best.

Edited May 11 by MirceaKitsune

[chakkman]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:17 PM, teknokrat said:

I don't know about actually breaking lights, but I have considered the idea of using water arrows on electric lights to short circuit them temporarily, making them flicker, and go out temporarily. How much they flicker could be set by the modder, and depend on difficulty level.

I like that.