Reaction To New Update.

[OrbWeaver]

So is the idea that the game will continue in realtime while a player is reading a text? This is obviously more realistic but will be a bit of a shock for the Thief players.

[sparhawk]

We have contracts with the ministry of education and they said it is important that people learn to read properly and fast so we should motivate them.

[Gildoran]

So is the idea that the game will continue in realtime while a player is reading a text? This is obviously more realistic but will be a bit of a shock for the Thief players.

 

Yes, that is the plan, and it's also why most books will be portable inventory items - if you're a slow reader you can take the book to some safe shadow and read there.

[SneaksieDave]

I believe it was also going to be an INI option?

[Bukary]

Yes, if you decided to implement realtime reading, it would be good to allow designers to change this with "pause" reading simply in some INI file. The more choice, the better.

 

But I really like the idea of realtime reading. It makes the game harder and more believable. Although it might unbalance the gameplay. It just needs testing.

[New Horizon]

Yes, if you decided to implement realtime reading, it would be good to allow designers to change this with "pause" reading simply in some INI file. The more choice, the better.

 

But I really like the idea of realtime reading. It makes the game harder and more believable. Although it might unbalance the gameplay. It just needs testing.

 

I tested it out in T3, it wasn't too bad...but then there really wasn't a massive amount to read in T3 compared to the previous games. In T1 and 2, you could spend a good ten or fifteen minutes reading through some things. Further testing will tell us whether it will work out, one way or the other.

[demagogue]

I don't know why I need to bother, but just to respond to ZB: substitute "being able to see a guard charge you" with "being able to watch a guard make his patrol in the distance" ... So while you're in a still position reading anyway, it wouldn't hurt to have the ability to do a little multi-tasking and already have an eye on foward-areas that you'll negotiate next to plan your next moves, and a clear view helps.

 

Or to put it more generally: T1/T2 style readables were so noticible (notorious) for the *dead* time they created ... If TDM is going to liven that time up, they may as well run with the idea and make it really worth something.

[SneaksieDave]

The simplest way to shoot blurring down is by one fact: just because your monitor/game view is looking at something, doesn't mean your eyeball is, too. The player's eye is not glued to the crosshair - it can and does wander, using the full field of view, and therefore, depth of focus cues make no sense beyond a gimmicky, crippling gameplay mechanic.

 

Edit: it reminds me loosely of when racing games include a cockpit view with hands and a steering wheel. It may look neat, and be good for replay mode, but I already have hands and a steering wheel, right in front of me. Mine! I don't need two sets.

[Macsen]

Yes, that is the plan, and it's also why most books will be portable inventory items - if you're a slow reader you can take the book to some safe shadow and read there.

 

Reading a book in shadow?

 

The book should be as dark as your lightgem is. Meaning that if you run off and hide under the stairs you can't make out any text on the page. The player has to learn to read in the light, avoiding guards be looking past the edge of the book (wich won't be blurred) while reading.

[Vadrosaul]

Now we need a Thief-like maglite

[Dram]

Reading a book in shadow?

 

The book should be as dark as your lightgem is. Meaning that if you run off and hide under the stairs you can't make out any text on the page. The player has to learn to read in the light, avoiding guards be looking past the edge of the book (wich won't be blurred) while reading.

 

I think it's a better idea to be able to read it in shadow - otherwise you can't put books in the dark

[OrbWeaver]

I think it's a better idea to be able to read it in shadow - otherwise you can't put books in the dark

 

I don't think you SHOULD be able to do this - I always found it ridiculous in Thief when you were in a completely dark room but could pick up and read a book just fine.

[Dram]

I guess it might be ok if you used a flare or some permanent lightsource to view them - then you'd be exposed. But it defeats the point. People will just go into the console and set the timescale to 0.000001 so they can read it.

[Springheel]

The book should be as dark as your lightgem is.

 

Been there, had this discussion.

 

Besides, it would be pointless to not highlight the readable, since frobbing the object in game will highlight it anyway. Making the GUI version harder to read than the in-game version doesn't accomplish anything.

[Dunedain]

Like was said earlier, just make it an option in an ini file (perhaps with a little check box

in the GUI for FM authors) whether to use pause Thief style reading of notes, scrolls and

books or reading with the game un-paused. Then the designer of the mission can choose

which he prefers.

[Macsen]

Been there, had this discussion.

Oi noi we're filling the internet with words! This is off-topic, idle banter abounds.

 

Besides, it would be pointless to not highlight the readable, since frobbing the object in game will highlight it anyway. Making the GUI version harder to read than the in-game version doesn't accomplish anything.

Frobbing something should encase it in white (or whatever colour chosen), but it shouldn't illuminate it. Frobbing is a virtual hand - the Thief can feel the shape of the object, but having it lit up like a thousands suns isn't realistic.

[Gildoran]

Reading a book in shadow? The book should be as dark as your lightgem is.

I agree, but at least the first version of readables will pop up a full-bright display, since the display is implemented entirely as a GUI. (whereas an in-world readable GUI can use its rendered object as a background, allowing it to be lit) Having the books interact with lighting will require the book to be rendered as a model in the game-world, like a weapon, which I'm not yet very knowledgable about.

[New Horizon]

Frobbing something should encase it in white (or whatever colour chosen), but it shouldn't illuminate it. Frobbing is a virtual hand - the Thief can feel the shape of the object, but having it lit up like a thousands suns isn't realistic.

 

Macsen, what are you talking about man? Frobbing illuminates the object, it's called 'fullbright' after all. T3 used the color overlay method and it sucked.

[Macsen]

Macsen, what are you talking about man? Frobbing illuminates the object, it's called 'fullbright' after all. T3 used the color overlay method and it sucked.

This is one of the few cases where T3 was right and T1/T2 wrong. T3 colour overlay looked crap, yes, because the colour they chose was garish and it was done in a generally crap way. But it's better than objects illuminating from within like hollowed out pumpkins.

 

I think the best way would be a sort of light aura that appeared around the object, just so that you saw the shape of it, without the silly fullbright business.

[New Horizon]

I think the best way would be a sort of light aura that appeared around the object, just so that you saw the shape of it, without the silly fullbright business.

 

Thank goodness you aren't the frob team leader.

[Springheel]

Oi noi we're filling the internet with words! This is off-topic, idle banter abounds.

 

We've discussed this very issue on two separate occasions in the dev boards. It gets tiring having to repeat all the same arguments again, especially when team-members like yourself can read the originals.

 

Frobbing something should encase it in white (or whatever colour chosen), but it shouldn't illuminate it. Frobbing is a virtual hand - the Thief can feel the shape of the object, but having it lit up like a thousands suns isn't realistic.

 

The whole concept of frob-lighting is unrealistic. The colour overlay method was universally despised in TDS because it obscured the details of what you were looking at (even when the atomic blue colour was changed), regardless of the lighting conditions.

[Macsen]

We've discussed this very issue on two separate occasions in the dev boards. It gets tiring having to repeat all the same arguments again.

No one is forcing you to contribute. As far as I'm aware discussions in the public forum are not 'legally binding' - they have no effect on decisions made in the private forum. My intention isn't to rock the boat or undermine decisions already made, but have a nice public discussion about frobbing for the sake of having a nice public discussion about frobbing. I'm well aware that my views do not reflect those of the majority.

 

(I hope I won't have to attach this as a disclaimer to every message I post out here)

 

Thank goodness you aren't the frob team leader.

You wait until I reveal my controversial (yet revolutionary!) ideas about gravity.

[Dram]

lol...this discussion is going nowhere...again....

[ZylonBane]

Jesus, I'm almost afraid to ask what Macsen is in charge of.

 

Not anything important, I hope. The guy just seems... loopy.

[Ishtvan]

We also discussed having to read a book under a light / turn on a lantern to read a book, and most of us decided that was taking things a bit too far.

 

Even if we were considering that, aren't there technology problems with lighting a GUI surface? I know we can light the page texture and overlay black text so that you can't tell the overlay is not effected by lighting, but if someone wants to overlay a colored illustration in the GUI without changing the background texture, wouldn't that illustration be unaffected by lighting?