Poor performance on good rigs (I think)

[Fendora]

Hi!

 

(My problem is very similar to this topic : http://forums.thedarkmod.com/topic/15619-rather-odd-performance-problem/ but sadly the solution can not apply to me)

 

I'm a fan of the thief games since the beginning, i loved the FMs we could add in Thief 2.

I was thrilled when i knew the existence of The Dark Mod, and playing it reminds me so much good memories.

 

But I have some performance problems which are rather disturbing...

 

I use the TDM updater, last version, to date, to install the game.

I have two computers :

 

An Asus G53, i7 2630QM, 8gb, GTX560m, Intel SSD

A custom made pc, Q9550, 4gb, GTX285.

 

By default, the game is (nearly?) maxxed out (16AA, max effects etc).

 

First problem : Loadings are VERY long. Though compression is enabled, I have Nvidia cards (regarding to the solution in the FAQ about slow loadings for Ati cards). I don't think it should be THAT long.

 

For the training mission :

1.52 minute for the first loading bar.

5.07 minutes in total!

On an SSD!

 

Second Problem :

I quickly discovered I lagged a LOT when going outside in the training mission, for example.

I decided to lower the quality, but i still had some lags now and then.

 

I thought it was a problem with the game files, because I think my computer (I only tried the Asus Laptop at that time) is still decent enough, so i reinstalled with a freshly downloaded TDM updater. Same problem.

 

I thought it was because the laptop wasn't good enough, so I tried to install it again on my second pc (GTX285, old but still pretty good for that game, no? )

 

I still had some fps drops.

In fact, even with ALL the effects to the minimum, in 1024*600, vertycal sync disabled, etc, i have some fps drops from 59/60 to 30/20 in some lightning, in the streets of the first mission pre-installed (I don't remember the name) , on the GTX285.

 

Is this supposed to be "normal" ? Because, to be frank (NOT trying to disrepect the work at all), with those settings, the game looks so flat and the colours so unrealistic i feel like playing a bad thief 1 fm.

 

But I don't really care about the graphics quality of the game, I just want it not to lag at all.

 

What I also tried :

-> I suspected the performance management mod on my laptop, nothing strange, the GTX560m is used, the cpu goes to 2.6ghz in the game (loading too), nothing seems wrong. Plus on my desktop I don't have any kind of power management software.

-> I played Diablo 2 a long time ago, and used an openGL wrapper (a dll file) to make it work. I thought TDM was openGl too, and that it could be the cause, but I checked and I no longer have that dll installed.

-> Both my computers are on windows 7, with the last nvidia drivers, and freshly installed TDM from the updater. No problems with other games nor softwares.

[Airship Ballet]

the game looks so flat and the colours so unrealistic i feel like playing a bad thief 1 fm

 

A screenshot would be handy because that doesn't sound like TDM on high settings at all.

[Fendora]

No, i was describing the game with the minimal settings in this sentence. ^^ (All effects to the minimum, no AA etc).

 

On high/middle settings it looks very nice, i agree.

 

Edit :

In tunnels, even in water, i don't seem to have any problems. It seems related to light sources in the game, in the open or in big rooms with several (4 to 10, maybe) light sources (candles...). I know those are perfs-hungry, but still, it seems a bit too much.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Fendora

[Airship Ballet]

Sorry, falling asleep here.

 

Is the game using all your processor's power? It just sounds like it's being throttled somewhere or your card's interfering. Might want to turn any overriding features off in your card's control panel.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Airship Ballet

[Fendora]

Yeah I agree it seems like something is throttling, but i didn't see anything unusual. I will check it again thoroughly though. Strange that it would happen on both my computers, especially on the desktop, but something is definitely wrong.

 

I probably will try to reinstall seven on my desktop computer to ged rid of anything not wanted, then with the latest drivers reinstall TDM to check performances.

[stumpy]

loading is very long regardless of how fast your system is, the map is checking itself to work on your rig.

[Springheel]

Although 5 minutes sounds high.

[Bikerdude]

Specs:

• An Asus G53, i7 2630QM, 8gb, GTX560m, Intel SSD
  
• A custom made pc, Q9550, 4gb, GTX285.
  

First problem: Loadings are VERY long. Though compression is enabled, I have Nvidia card. The training mission load in the following times

• 1.52 minute for the first loading bar.
  
• 5.07 minutes in total!
  

Second Problem: quickly discovered I lagged a LOT when going outside in the training mission, for example. I decided to lower the quality, but i still had some lags now and then.

 

My specs:

• Windows 8, Msi Z77-G45, 16GB DDR3-1333, i5-2500k, GTX670, Samsung 830 256GB which is connected to a Sata 3 controller
  

5 seconds to get the main menu from cold launch, then 65 seconds from clicking on 'Start mission' to load the training mission once it had already been installed.

 

So my questions are as folllows:

• Can you give me a time it take to load the mission from click on 'start mission'
  
• Have you got the high perf power config enabled in Windows?
  
• Were you running on battery power or plugged into the mains at the time?
  
• Are you running the latest chipset and sata drivers?
  
• Have you update the bios on the G53 as a quick google shows some people having sata speed issues
  

And lastly You dont need compression enenabled with GTX560 or 285 both are good cards with plenty of Vram.

[SteveL]

Though it boils down to about 3 mins given the initial load took 2 of the five. I get 3-minute waits after disk loading on big missions -- I look at it as TDM considerately reminding me to fetch a beer -- but not on the training mission.

A quick stopwatch test on the training mission gave me 27 seconds for loading and 37 for mission construction. 16gb/4gb main/gpu memory but probably not relevant as the training mission won't exceed your ram.

 

EDIT: crossed with Biker

Edited February 7, 2014 by SteveL

[HMart]

Theres something definitely wrong with your computers not TDM, it is heavy compared to Doom 3 because of the Artificial Intelligence stuff they needed to implement, but not that heavy, and the engine is very Nvidia friendly so is strange that you're having so much performance problems with it.

 

First thing reinstall your graphics card drivers, don't forget to uninstall them completely first, use CCleaner to delete any stray registry entry.

Second did you overclocked some part of your machines? If yes put everything to their default values.

third always check the temperatures to see if they are not overheating.

Edited February 7, 2014 by HMart

[Fendora]

Hello!

 

I'm reinstalling windows 7 from iso image right now, and will answer the "tests" questions right after that.

• Have you got the high perf power config enabled in Windows?

  Yes on my G53, no on my other rig (no management power)
  

• Were you running on battery power or plugged into the mains at the time?

  Plugged, always
  

• Are you running the latest chipset and sata drivers?

  Yep
  

• Have you update the bios on the G53 as a quick google shows some people having sata speed issues

• Nope, but I don't think it would explain the problem (Sata 2 speeds are still very good and my SSD wouldn't benefit from sata 3 speeds, plus my desktop doesn't have an ssd)
  

And lastly You dont need compression enenabled with GTX560 or 285 both are good cards with plenty of Vram.

Then I will disable the compression!

 

 

Second did you overclocked some part of your machines? If yes put everything to their default values.

third always check the temperatures to see if they are not overheating.

I usually do but that's not the case on the desktop. But the comment on the temperatures is very relevant, i didn't even think of that! Sadly, I take good care of my computers, the G53 was not hot at all, the fan weren't loud, and on my desktop I have a Noctua cooler with some Noctua fans in an antec nine hundred case, temps are very good.

 

Thank you for your anwsers, I will post in a couple of hours to let you know how the reinstall went.

 

 

 

 

Edit :

 

Ok during the reinstall I took the Dark Mod Folder from my desktop to try it on my laptop, I don't know what I did but the loading times seem good. Loading a save from the first mission (preloaded) only take 1 minute from the click to the moment i can move. (On a SSD)

 

Oh and i can NOT disable compression by setting "seta image_usePrecompressedTextures "1"" to "0", because then the screen menu stays black. But i don't care if the loading times stay about the minute.

 

 

BUT with the effects/details to the lowest, vertical sync enabled, 1280*768 resolution, i still go from 59/60 to 29/30 ('cause of vertical sync) when looking at a torch, for example.

 

It's really due to the lighting sources, especially moving lightning sources it seems. I'll look for options in the cfg file regarding this.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Fendora

[Xarg]

Interesting, I never really have problems with the lighting causing fps drops (though underwater utterly DESTROYS my FPS... got 9fps underwater on Sons of Baltona for example), but otherwise, unless the lights are everywhere, overlapping and casting shadows and moving.. lights aren't an issue... weird you'd have light issues and no water, and I'd have water and no lights issues.

[Fendora]

Well Windows 7 reinstalled on my desktop, clean as it can be, newest drivers, windows updates, etc... Still there.

 

1 minute to load a savegame in "Vengeance For A Thief Part 1" (which is decent, i don't mind it)

Fps drop from 59/60 to 29/30 when discovering NEW torches in the streets, but for 4/5 seconds "only".

 

i don't think the probleme has changed, it's just I discovered a new aspect of it. When discovering a new light source (like some new torches in a street), fps drop dramatically (Even though the details options are on the lowest/disabled). But 4 to 5 seconds after (roughly), back to 59/60fps, and it does not drop when I move.

 

Until I find new torches.

 

It's pretty annoying to play, i'm still trying some changes in the darkmod.cfg that could get rid of this, but considering the long load times i'm not very efficient. x)

 

Edit :

And sometimes, when testing the lights in the street, the game freezes, go black, and crash :

Description :

Un problème a provoqué l’arrêt de l’interaction de ce programme avec Windows.

 

Signature du problème :

Nom d’événement de problème: AppHangB1

Nom de l’application: TheDarkMod.exe

Version de l’application: 1.0.0.1

Horodatage de l’application: 52e7bcc4

Signature de blocage: f916

Type de blocage: 0

Version du système: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48

 

I only got this 2 or three times though, and it may be related to the changes i tried in the cfg file. When i played the missions seriously, it never occured.

 

 

Edit :

Well maybe it's not the light sources after all but mostly new objects/environments. It seems as if I lacked graphic memory.

I saw the setting : "seta com_videoRam "128" " in the cfg, changed it to 800 then 512, no change.

 

I'm gonna try to get Doom 3 performance settings in there.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Fendora

[Garreth]

https://www.lotro.co...changed-setting

 

Nom de l’application: TheDarkMod.exe

Version de l’application: 1.0.0.1l

Edited February 8, 2014 by Garreth

[Fendora]

I tried it (added TDM to the 3d "manageable" programs, then put power mode on performance), no change.

 

I put this problem aside for now, as I don't want to spend too much time on it...

 

It surely is a problem with my computers, the game is clean, windows too... Well it may be solved when I buy a new computer.

[Bikerdude]

Can you give me the FPS numbers for worst perfing parts of the training mission and also the load times.

[bygone]

I can cofirm that problem with light sources, they are effectivelly lowering my fps on minimal settings too, but I don't have problem with long loading time (yet?). I have laptop with i5 3210m running 3.1 Ghz while playing, gt635m 2 gb DDR3 (should be enough), 8 gb ram (more than enough I think) and windows 7 pro. I am using latest drivers ofc and my disk is defragmented regulary.

Edited August 10, 2014 by bygone

[nbohr1more]

Have you tried disabling "Threading Optimization" in your driver settings?

[bygone]

Well.. no, going to try it.

[Bikerdude]

On the subject of yout GT635M, how many cores does yours have 96 or 144..? as the former will struggle with TDM on the highest settings and some of the larger missions..

[Goldwell]

Will it ever be possible to decrease the loading times? To my knowledge it takes as long as it does (which isn't that bad anyway) because the engine has to load the entire map before starting. Say in 5 years if someone loads up an FM will it take just as long as it does today?

[nbohr1more]

There was a branch in the works where better normal map compression was used. The normal map compression in

Doom 3 is horrible so TDM never used it. I think the darkfate (russian thief community) compressed TDM's normal maps

anyway and saw some improvements (with the expected loss of image quality)... Serpentine was working on that branch

and had a functional prototype so now I guess taaaki would be the man to contact...

[Goldwell]

Ah in that case I would rather just put up with the extra wait for the sake of better image quality. I guess thats why other engines either stream (which has its downside but makes it smoother) or it can be a bit more jarring like Thief 2014 which had constant loading zones within a level.

[bygone]

On the subject of yout GT635M, how many cores does yours have 96 or 144..? as the former will struggle with TDM on the highest settings and some of the larger missions..

 

It has 96 cores but I wasn't trying it on full quality or full HD. Btw. I can run newest Thief on medium settings @30-40fps.

[nbohr1more]

Yeah, Thief 4 isn't a good comparison because most of the lighting is static lightmaps...