Jump to content


Photo

Deus Ex mod - like Dark mod is to Thief?


  • Please log in to reply
177 replies to this topic

#1 tefdal

tefdal

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts

Posted 21 November 2016 - 08:35 AM

Hi,

 

I'm a big fan of the Dark Mod and everything the team has managed to do. Such great work, and such great community maps. All for free too - it's really appreciated.

 

I wondered whether anyone had ever thought of doing what Dark Mod is to Thief for Deus Ex - like take the core systems and open it up to a total mod remake? So it would be I guess the core operations like hacking terminals, different security terminals and core skills, and then open source it and the maps? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone will ever do it, it would be a phenomenal workload - just curious really. It seems like it would be the perfect sister to the dark mod? Perhaps the more RPG and story centric nature of the game means it wouldn't be a good fit.


Edited by tefdal, 21 November 2016 - 09:19 AM.


#2 lowenz

lowenz

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1519 posts

Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:02 AM

DX-like games are story-based, not mission-based.

 

BTW: http://store.steampo...com/app/397550/


Edited by lowenz, 21 November 2016 - 09:02 AM.

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.


#3 New Horizon

New Horizon

    Mod hero

  • Active Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 13752 posts

Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:11 AM

Hi,

 

I'm a big fan of the Dark Mod and everything the team has managed to do. Such great work, and such great community mad maps. All for free too - it's really appreciated.

 

I wondered whether anyone had ever thought of doing what Dark Mod is to Thief for Deus Ex - like take the core systems and open it up to a total mod remake? So it would be I guess the core operations like hacking terminals, different security terminals and core skills, and then open source it and the maps? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting anyone will ever do it, it would be a phenomenal workload - just curious really. It seems like it would be the perfect sister to the dark mod? Perhaps the more RPG and story centric nature of the game means it wouldn't be a good fit.

 

I don't recall if anyone has mentioned an interest in doing that but it would be cool.  The Mod is open source, so anyone can do it if they want.  There was an attempt at a System Shock styled mod, but that shut down years ago.  A shame really.


  • Petike the Taffer likes this

#4 tefdal

tefdal

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts

Posted 21 November 2016 - 10:24 AM

DX-like games are story-based, not mission-based.

 

BTW: http://store.steampo...com/app/397550/

 

Yeah I saw the revision mod - looking forward to playing it!

 

Also, yes Deus Ex does have an awesome overarching story. So I was imagining just isolated missions like Dark Mod, just using the consituent elements - terminals, hacking, weapons and of course vents primarily. I guess the main obstacle you could argue is that in Deus ex you are unlocking different skills to give options, or the fact that dialogue options refer to previous events - still, maybe it would be possible to write and design around that, in the same way you choose your load out in Dark Mod... So it wouldn't of course be a total replication of Deus Ex, just inspired by.

 

I thought Quadrilateral Cowboy might be a little like I describe, also in the doom3 engine I think. But it seems the mapping scene never really took off on that game sadly, though open sourced too.

 

@New Horizon

For sure Dark Mod is open sourced, it would be great if someone took up the task, but I expect that's pretty unlikely at this stage.


Edited by tefdal, 21 November 2016 - 10:27 AM.


#5 demagogue

demagogue

    Mod hero

  • Active Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5184 posts

Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:46 PM

We've talked about a scifi/cyberpunk branch of Darkmod many times. I'm one of the biggest fans of the idea, so that's why I remember. I've always been more in the scifi camp than the fantasy camp, but Darkmod is gritty and realist so it makes up for it.

Anyway, I think one of the popular ideas recently is not to do a full branch of the Darkmod sourcecode, but to create an asset pack that lets people make cyberpunk levels on the vanilla engine. That's much easier to do & so more likely to happen. You also don't split up the game or audience, which has pros and cons, but more pros maybe. (The one concession I'd make is cyberpunk levels might need their own download channel.)

We can change all the models, textures, gui art and AI models. We can keep the search behavior. We recently got guns working, but need a new animation for it that can just replace the old one. As long as we don't need specialized tools, just guns and cyberpunky world interactions that can be done by script, etc, you could do some very good cyberpunk levels I think.
Posted Image

#6 Baal

Baal

    Hero Mapper

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPip
  • 1014 posts

Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:59 PM

I would love a stealth game based on The Dark Mod in a science fiction setting. But you would need to create A LOT of assets to do that. Textures, models, animations, sound and whatnot.



#7 demagogue

demagogue

    Mod hero

  • Active Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5184 posts

Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:25 AM

There are a lot of open assets out there though. I think the only thing that would really need to be created by us is new GUI, new AI models for our animations, and an animation for shooting a gun/laser. Much of the rest we could snatch from other places providing open scifi assets, websites and other indie games. (By "open" I mean already licensed for other party use without restrictions.)

Edit. I mean my idea, aside from the usual sites for free assets, was to just skimp off the assets of an entire open source scifi game like NeoTokyo. Fan asset upgrades for AAA scifi games are another source, although the IP issue is more ambiguous (they're new textures and models, but meant to replace existing ones, but never contested by the companies...). I've seen them for DXIW, SS2, FO3, Stalker, etc.
Posted Image

#8 jaxa

jaxa

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1226 posts

Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:36 AM

Ironically, it might have been easier to do that years ago... before The Dark Mod went standalone and ditched Doom 3's futuristic-looking assets.

 

Wait, is that irony?


Edited by jaxa, 22 November 2016 - 12:36 AM.


#9 Destined

Destined

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1222 posts

Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:33 AM

Ironically, it might have been easier to do that years ago... before The Dark Mod went standalone and ditched Doom 3's futuristic-looking assets.

 

Wait, is that irony?

Just my thought. TDM is based on a sci-fi game and now we discuss adding sci-fi assets that are missing...



#10 demagogue

demagogue

    Mod hero

  • Active Developer
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5184 posts

Posted 22 November 2016 - 02:19 AM

I guess you could still link assets to the Doom3 install for those that have it (or try to. I don't know if it'd work), and everybody else gets a missing assrts error, but it'd cut the audience down even if it did work.
Public licensed assets let you package them in the FM for everybody.
So it's not too ironic. Well I guess it is a little ironic, converting a medieval game converted from a scifi game into another scifi game. ;)
Posted Image

#11 Melan

Melan

    Contest Winner, Wordsmith

  • Campaign Dev
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4385 posts

Posted 22 November 2016 - 02:40 AM

The real issue is manpower and enthusiasm. It would be a relatively painless job with a dedicated team, but as the fan mission community shows, fewer people are interested in this kind of thing than there used to be ten, or even five years ago.


  • Springheel likes this
Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#12 lowenz

lowenz

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1519 posts

Posted 22 November 2016 - 05:41 AM

Ironically, it might have been easier to do that years ago... before The Dark Mod went standalone and ditched Doom 3's futuristic-looking assets.

 

Wait, is that irony?

LOL


Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.


#13 tefdal

tefdal

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts

Posted 22 November 2016 - 10:20 AM

It's cool to see some of you, even you developer heroes, have thought of similar - it would be so great to see.

 

The real issue is manpower and enthusiasm. It would be a relatively painless job with a dedicated team, but as the fan mission community shows, fewer people are interested in this kind of thing than there used to be ten, or even five years ago.

 

Yeah that's true. I think the Deus Ex franchise getting succesfully rebooted, plus the resurgence of stealth in the form of Dishonoured (and the Rhief reboot itself) played a part because the need is now sated - and perhaps in another irony the work of TDM proved the desire and audience for deeper stealth games to be made so reducing the community..? Or just the fact that consoles have taken a chunk of what was purely a PC domain, or that people expect things to be AAA polished and nothing else perhaps. Having only had map experience back in the days of Doom wads i'm personally not able to do much or to personally spearhead the concept. That said I am going to look into mapping for TDM when I finish my current project, and will look more at the coding doom mod side then too, so you never know one day I would love to help, but you devs maybe hear that one a lot..


Edited by tefdal, 22 November 2016 - 10:22 AM.


#14 Taquito

Taquito

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 257 posts

Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:31 PM

You might like Dark Athena.



#15 Melan

Melan

    Contest Winner, Wordsmith

  • Campaign Dev
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 4385 posts

Posted 23 November 2016 - 02:13 AM

Having only had map experience back in the days of Doom wads i'm personally not able to do much or to personally spearhead the concept. That said I am going to look into mapping for TDM when I finish my current project, and will look more at the coding doom mod side then too, so you never know one day I would love to help, but you devs maybe hear that one a lot..

On this note, it is not hard to build good-looking medium-complexity maps as long as you don't get carried away and do something really huge and involved (which is where a lot of personal and group efforts tend to die).

 

The editor is user-friendly, there are a lot of useful tutorials, and the next version of TDM will come with a load of extra help for newbies which will substantially help with the mapping process.


Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

#16 freyk

freyk

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 451 posts

Posted 23 November 2016 - 05:01 AM

There are a lot of open assets out there though. I think the only thing that would really need to be created by us is new GUI, new AI models for our animations, and an animation for shooting a gun/laser. Much of the rest we could snatch from other places providing open scifi assets, websites and other indie games. (By "open" I mean already licensed for other party use without restrictions.)

Yes, and if there are people (mappers, animators and coders) who are willing to combine things from these idtech 4 mod projects.
 
For a start, a small experiment: 
we need to find a tdm-mapper who would like to take a look at a map of the prey mod lostcity, export the map model (or take parts), import it in darkradiant and re-texture & re-light it, put some tdm-models in it.
(maybe Fieldmedic??)
 
For example, textures we can take from Duke nukem High resolution pack (license)
And for the interface, how about from Icarus starship command simulator, from user stepan1010.
 
And just for fun we can call this project, "The Dark Mission".
 
Some example vids:

Edited by freyk, 25 November 2016 - 05:46 AM.


#17 Baal

Baal

    Hero Mapper

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPip
  • 1014 posts

Posted 24 November 2016 - 03:27 PM

Don't tempt me.



#18 freyk

freyk

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 451 posts

Posted 24 November 2016 - 04:36 PM

Why not?
its just a small test.
(I did this also with unreal 1 and deus ex. Export the t3d, import it, retextured and added some objects. But i didnt completed and publisched it)
edit: (another example: Unreal 1 mission to ThieveryUT: http://freyk0.tripod...thief/haven.htm

Thief 3 and deusex 2 live side by side.
Maybe Dark mod and dark mission too. (If we use the same codebase and other stuff).

Combine things, like weapons from the rwm pack.
But i dont want to make Rambo shooter.

Edited by freyk, 25 November 2016 - 04:07 AM.


#19 Baal

Baal

    Hero Mapper

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPip
  • 1014 posts

Posted 24 November 2016 - 04:41 PM

Someone needs to create material definitions for all these textures. Do we have tools to automate that?



#20 freyk

freyk

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 451 posts

Posted 24 November 2016 - 04:50 PM

For the experiment you can use the existing tdm textures and assests.
Is it possible to export the "wireframes" of the prey map to tdm?

At this moment im trying to create a briefing scene.
Got the deusex 1 traingsmission music playing in the saintlucia briefing.
Great music mix.

Edited by freyk, 24 November 2016 - 04:56 PM.


#21 Baal

Baal

    Hero Mapper

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPip
  • 1014 posts

Posted 24 November 2016 - 04:58 PM

Yes, I think they use the same map format. Darkradiant should be able to open a prey map, but you would have to place new textures and entities.



#22 Baal

Baal

    Hero Mapper

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPip
  • 1014 posts

Posted 24 November 2016 - 05:55 PM

Ok, it works. I tried it.



#23 freyk

freyk

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 451 posts

Posted 24 November 2016 - 06:49 PM

Nice, can you post some screenshots of the results?

If we now can find someone to put the rwm weapons in tdm.
And other things like:

Night vision: http://www.nexusmods...oom3/mods/948/?

Edited by freyk, 24 November 2016 - 06:55 PM.


#24 Baal

Baal

    Hero Mapper

  • Development Role
  • PipPipPip
  • 1014 posts

Posted 25 November 2016 - 03:01 AM

There's not much to see until it gets some new textures. I'm going to try something with the Duke Nukem resource pack. That's something I always wanted to do anyways.



#25 freyk

freyk

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 451 posts

Posted 25 November 2016 - 05:12 AM

Created a project folder with sourcecode in my google drive(see tdm other)

edit: not in my personal google drive anymore.


Edited by freyk, 27 November 2016 - 12:34 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users