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How about using TDM automation framework (and maybe pcem/qemu)? More info see: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/19828-automation-features-and-discussion/

File Update for Improved Subtitle Font As requested a while ago, to address the stray marks and other problems seen with current subtitle font, Stone, I am providing a short-term fix for characters in the printable ASCII range 32-126, using corrected metadata: fontimage_24.dat This is intended to replace tdm_fonts01.pk4\fonts\english\stone\fontimage_24.dat No change is needed in the related .dds files for this. Briefly, problems with stray marks found to the left of a character were due to picking up pixels from an adjoining character in the glyph bitmap dds files. Adjusting the location of the source box and related metrics fixed these. Affected were: % C E T W Y | The | character also got improved spacing, as did J Finally, the entirely screwed data for the angle brackets was corrected. This coming month I hope to work up a wiki page with diagrams to better explain what I learned about the mysteries of the idTech4 font .dat and .dds files. To see what the results look like with corrected fontimage_24.dat in place (as an override), here is my testing FM: testSubtitlesASCII.pk4 A longer-term fix (beyond 2.12 release) would also address ANSI and TDM-specific-mapped charaters in the range 128-255. To look at that, I have a similar experimental tester for ANSI (unripe to release). It shows substantial issues in that range. And then there's also consideration of fontimage_12.dat and fontimage_48.dat. And the russian-character variant.

Solus and SteamOS are not the same https://www.slant.co/versus/2694/2714/~steamos_vs_solus Solus is actually better according to reviews hehe. And true OpenBox is a bit limited but i find it to be an ok alternative if you develop something from the ground up like NomadBSD. BSD does not have a lot of active desktop Operating Systems but NomadBSD is quite nice though minimalistic. It uses OpenBox and the desktop is in the mac style, originally it used an XFCE port and there are still some traces of XFCE apps left -> atleast one i know of because if you try to access the color composer in the file manager it complains about the lack of several XFCE libraries minor whoopsie on the developers part i reckon since that part is now handled by OpenBox. Despite this it works fine and is mostly used as a live OS to boot from usb. had a bit of a problem with it on this PC though as it seems to have problems with my hardware making it slower than molasses to boot. An alternative is GhostBSD which is a more complete desktop for BSD using MATE. It unfortunatly does tend to break quite often, and the package manager seems a bit out of date which might be because a lot of the desktop system was ported from linux and the newer ones have not quite catched up yet on BSD. Despite this i find the BSD kernel to be great, it focusses a lot more on security than most linux kernels and the main BSD distros tend to be quite stable (FreeBSD NetBSD OpenBSD etc.) you can still install a desktop on say FreeBSD if you know how to hammer it all together so that it boots into the desktop but for the most part the main BSD's are shell only.

I cannot speak for the mission creators, but if was one i would say: "thanks for the suggestions. please adjust them yourself, if you want to do it. The needed source and info are publisched online. it takes time to repair the problems. I (dont) have time for it. Maybe you get some experience by repairing this yourself, to create some new content yourself."

yeah win11 is not that different from win10 except for some rather ludicrous hardware expectations like cpu and tpm. i can get behind the tpm requirement though truth be told one could use an usb stick for the same (storing encrypted keys), but the cpu requirement is kinda fubar since i use a gen 4 for running win10 with no problems whatsoever and it also runs 11 just fine despite not being on the approved list. sure you can fool win 11 to install on it but there are no guarantees that microsoft wont disable that down the line so no thanks :). manjaro was one of my earlier favorites in the linux world, sadly the last time i tried it, it would not play ball with my hardware and also had a bit of the same problem most other mainstream distros have where you could install stuff not native to the kernel and hence break everything, i find what solus did to be gratifying since a lot of people who have not grown up in the linux world and who are not able to identify and correct these annoyances should feel more at home. sure theres still a bit of reading to be done but you dont need to be a rocket scientist to use it

So id recently started dablling with linux derivatives as a main OS again after holding off for years due to some problems running my hardware when i stumbled upon Solus. Solus is a distro that was developed independently from mainstream linux (from the ground up) and uses its own desktop model called budgie (also comes with a plasma gnome and XFCE dektop). Solus uses its own package manager called eopkg and it handles flatpak and snap as well. I been very impressed with it so far as things just worked out of the box for most parts, only real problem i had was getting steam running which turned out to be due to my machine loosing internet connection when it was installing it which left some broken files and after an uninstall / reinstall it worked quite nicely. one warning though Solus comes with a linux steam integration tool which while cool has a rather annoying bug if you try to use the intercept library no games will launch (well alledgedly one will and it was made for that because it wont launch without it on groan...), so do not enable that setting. lutris also works pretty much from the get go though i had to do some reading to find out how to get it to synch up with steam (steam profile must be set to public in pretty much everything). So how does games work on it, well actually rather well proton has made strides in getting even the newest games to run on steam and the only games i so far have not been able to run is the division 1 and 2 but this a'int a problem with steam but with ubisoft connect which crashes and might get fixed in the future (damn launchers...). So far i been plaing baldurs gate 3, callisto protocol, crysis remastered trilogy, DOOM, starfield and a wealth of older games with it and no problems besides having to run baldurs gate in DX11 mode (not really sure why the vulkan driver is not working for this game on linux ???). I might actually step onto the linux platform for good when win10 goes out of support, and ill probably stay with solus since it is less cluttered than most other distros and main packages are built explicitly for it which again means stability as you dont get puckered into installing something which was newer meant for your OS (yeah i f.... up numerous linux distros over the years because you can install pretty much what you like even if it breaks everything, not so with Solus). This does not mean you cant have some nice app you need which was built against say gnome because you sit on a plasma desktop, you absolutely can but they are only avaliable as snap / flatpaks so each of them run in its own sandbox with all the dependencies only avaliable to said program and keept isolated from the system. try it out :) https://getsol.us/download/

To cater to both audiences. I mentioned LibreGameWiki as one example. nbohr1more mentioned other uses. Explicitly allowing reuse and spread will help TDM reach a wider audience and would hopefully attract more volunteers. More volunteers which can help improve both TDM versions. There are several benefits for a project of being in the Debian repo. One is that TDM Debian-users can report defects on any package directly to Debian (no need to register on separate forums). Debian may then fix the issue themselves (in their "TDM-libre" package) and will offer the patch upstream to TDM, who can then choose to accept or reject the patch. I envision "TDM-libre" to have the same capability of downloading any mission as regular TDM. The only difference is that "TDM-libre" would come packaged with the regular engine (which is GPL+BSD) and an included mission that has libre media/gamedata. When I play TDM by myself, I want the unlimited-play and can accept commercial restrictions. But if I were to promote it somewhere, or charge for a stream when playing online, or make a video, I would want a version without commercial restrictions (and can temporarily accept limited-play) to make sure I don't violate anyone's copyright. Perhaps. That's what I'm trying to find out.

I suggest you use the term "I", to make clear that it is something YOU want, and that you speak for yourself. But, as wesp5 mentioned, I don't really know what this is about, at all. And, I'm also wondering about all the newly registered people lately, who just arrived at this forum, and already want to revolutionize this mod. This is a thing I noticed 2 or 3 years ago, and which hasn't been present in the 15 years I play this mod and frequent these forums now. Really seems like a common thing these days, to not knock on the door, but kick it in, and stomp right in.

When talking about a possible libre version of TDM (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22346-libre-version-of-tdm/) it seems we believe all media/gamedata included in TDM is licensed CC-BY-NC-SA. I am not familiar with how the process of adding new media/gamedata works today; I have seen files uploaded to the bugtracker which developers then commit to SVN, but I don't know if there are other ways. It may be a good idea to implement a process that when new components (media/gamedata included in TDM) are added, the contributor is asked to be explicit about the license (a choice which may defaults to their previous preference, for usability). It won't fix the past, but it may help in the future. This will make it easy for contributors to add future data under a more permissive license if they choose. Libre media can be added and its license can be tracked, rather than assumed to be CC-BY-NC-SA. I suggest looking at how Wikimedia Commons has implemented this: the contributor state the source and license at the time the data is uploaded. This can be done either by providing urls or by saying "It's my work and I choose this licsense". The first step could be to add a way to keep track of each filepath in SVN, author, license, sources. Start by setting the value for each file's license to "(default/legacy CC-BY-NC-SA)". Possible implementations for a user interface for new additions are: * Use our own wiki, which runs Mediawiki (same as Wikimedia Commons). I see several benefits of this, but we also need a way to accept uploads of batches, not just single files. * Look at how other open source projects have solved this. There may be more appropriate solutions available. ... but I'll leave the implementation open. Suggestions are very welcome! If the author of each file already in SVN can be tracked, then it may be possible that the author is willing to give a blanket permission for all their past files in one statement, and all their files in SVN can be updated in one commit. A productive contributor willing to release some of their work under a more permissive license could make a big change. If Dark Radiant would support letting mappers search media/gamedata by license (does it already?), it would make it easier for mappers to create a completely libre mission, which would help facilitate a TDM-libre release. If I understand things correctly. This post does not address all details and it may contain misunderstandings or assumptions, but it's a start. Also relevant: * Is there a compiled and maintained list of recommended or deprecated resources for mappers to use? * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20311-external-art-assets-licensing/

A colleague of mine believes the true mirrored rendering is a deprecated feature today. Given all the problems (try to put a model which is both partly in front of and partly behind the mirror) and the fact that reflection probes are unversal, perhaps he is right.

In theory that should be possible, and I believe (although again, I'm not an authority on Debian policy) that it would permit inclusion in Debian, because the GPL parts could be in the main repository and the non-free parts could be in the dedicated non-free repository. I suspect they wouldn't accept the main package if it didn't contain some minimal playable content (which is basically what the OP is suggesting). But as others have said, separating out the various free vs non-free components would be a huge task. I believe there are also problems with trying to have the game installed in a non-writable system-wide location, because they game expects to be extracted into a writable directory and store its data locally.

I did play Thief and FMs, but I don't play it any more, except for major things like Black Parade. The clunky movement and antiquated Dromed editor is what discouraged me from interacting with it over the years. I regularly play and sometimes make content for TDM, because it has much better movement model than Thief. I know that most missions don't use it well, but if you construct your geometry (gaps, ledges, distances) using power of two measurements, movement and mantling feels fast and snappy. There's no need for regression in that regard, in my opinion, there's a need for assets and missions made with the movement model in mind, to showcase its strengths properly. Even if TDM originally intended to "simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief, many things will be familiar to veteran Thief players" the actual mod history was a bit different. The team came up with a mission platform that has its own identity when it comes to mechanics. The way assets were made might have been a huge mistake, but that didn't prevent the platform from growing. Since you like anecdotal evidence, noone other Skacky once said that TDM movement model was super clunky, after playing The Painter's Wife. It was really hard to convince him that if a mapper places geometry this poorly, and isn't aware what spatial measurements play to the strengths of a movement model, no movement model will save his mission. And there is no fixing of this problem on the engine side, although it's not the first time when TDM team tries to address the asset problem with engine changes, which I suspect will ultimately lead to even more problems down the line. In game development, things like core mechanics and player tools are locked-down first, in one of the pre-production phases, because all the levels will be constructed around them. Making changes in core mechanics in a project this mature is very risky, I assume you don't plan on going through all playable spaces in all released TDM FMs to check for errors. Instead of making incremental changes in fundamental mechanics, I'd encourage you to create a fork, or some kind of major version bump candidate, like 3.0, where all things could be revamped: movement, player tools, UI, new frob mechanics, perhaps with UI contextual icons, new training map to incorporate all that, etc. Once all new elements fall into place and create something new, with a map or maps to back it up as relevant changes, it will be easier to convince existing player/author base that it was worth it. I assume the existing fanbase is already fragmented, as a result of all those heated discussions around the topic. But with multiple versions available for download, the transition to hypothetical "TDM 3.0" should be easier. It could be similar to UE2 and UE3, and you could also use this as an occasion to draw the line for backwards compatibility. I know there are old systems and variables kept in place just in order not to break existing missions. This way you could e.g. redo the LOD system, implement lights using math functions instead of textures, etc.

TDM has tons of textures from "free" texture resources that do not allow redistribution and cannot be incorporated into a commercial project. Someone would need to create a huge replacement pack of textures that do not break the look of existing missions and do not infringe on the copyrighted textures. Also, many artists who contributed to this project do not want 3rd party entities to use their work in commercial projects. They intended the models, textures, sounds, animations to be exclusively used for Darkmod content. You would either have to replace ALL assets or contact every contributor and ask them to re-license their assets. Many contributors are no longer active with the project and haven't visited the forums in years so it would be no easy feat. I cannot speak to Debian policy but I think that they treat installers that add non-free content the same as non-free content itself. One could argue that Steam is such an installer but I guess Debian would counter that there are a few fully Libre games on Steam. I think Debian, Ubuntu, or Linux Mint need to consider a repo that allows for games (etc) that include non-libre content but intentionally offer this content for free to the community with no stipulations other than "don't try to sell it as a product".

This post differentiates between "gratis" ("at no monetary cost") and "libre" ("with little or no restriction") per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_libre * A libre version of TDM could: ** Qualify TDM for an article on the LibreGameWiki *** TDM is currently listed as rejected https://libregamewiki.org/Libregamewiki:Rejected_games_list because "Media is non-commercial (under CC-BY-NC-SA 3.0). The engine is free though (modified Doom 3) (2013-10-19)" ** Qualify for software repositories like Debian *** TDM is currently listed as unsuitable https://wiki.debian.org/Games/Unsuitable#The_Dark_Mod because 1) "The gamedata is very large (2.3 GB)", and 2) "The license of the gamedata (otherwise it must go into non-free with the engine into contrib)" and links to https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/LICENSE.txt Questions: 1) tdm_installer.linux64 is 4.2 MB (unzipped), which is far from the 2.3 GB which is said to be too large. Yes, the user can use it to download data that is non-libre, but so can any web browser too. If the installer itself is completely libre, does anyone know the reason why it cannot be accepted into the Debian repository? 2) If adding the installer to the repository is not a viable solution, would it be possible to package the engine with a small and beginner friendly mission built only from libre media/gamedata into a "TDM-libre" release, and add user friendly functionality to download the 2.3 GB media/gamedata using "TDM-libre" (similar to mission downloading)? 3) Would such a "TDM-libre" release be acceptable for the Debian repository? 4) Would such a "TDM-libre" release be acceptable for LibreGameWiki? 5) Would the work be worth it? * Pros: Exposure in channels covering libre software (e.g. the LibreGameWiki). Distribution in channels allowing only libre software (e.g. the Debian repository). * Cons: The work required for the modifictions and release of "TDM-libre". Possible maintenance of "TDM-libre". I'm thinking that the wider reach may attract more volunteers to work on TDM, which may eventually make up for this work and hopefully be net positive. 6) Are there any TDM missions that are libre already today? If not, would anyone be willing to work on one to fulfill this? I'll contribute in any way I can. 7) I found the following related topics on the forum: * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16226-graphical-installers-for-tdm/ (installing only the updater) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16640-problems-i-had-with-tdm-installation-on-linux-w-solutions/ (problems with installation on Linux) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/17743-building-tdm-on-debian-8-steamos-tdm-203/ (Building TDM on Debian 8 / SteamOS) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18592-debian-packaging/ (Dark Radiant) ... but if there are other related previous discussions, I'd appreciate any links to them. Any thoughts or comments?

The gamepad implementation allows for a great degree of flexibility to personalize settings, aside from a few minor issues that I mentioned here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22337-gamepad-bindings/ I would say that playing TDM with a gamepad works very well, especially considering that it was implemented as experimental and hasn't been changed since then. If I could, I'd go back to 2021-you and congratulate you on buying that gamepad. I notice that your DarkmodPadbinds.cfg looks very different from mine...

It seems like more and more "thief" and "thief players" is becoming a short hand to dismiss community members earnest desire to improve the game - which happens to be a barely legally distinct "thief style" game which was made by thief fans for thief fans and is "designed to simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief". Who is the predominant player base of the game supposed to be beyond fans of the thief games? Is there some better avenue to find feedback for the game beyond this forum? FOSS and linux forums? I have seen maybe half a dozen posts from that segment. I am a thief fan, I play thief fms, my association with those games is what drives me to play and make things for this game. Are we supposed to pretend the original games are not a huge reason why most of us are here at all? TL;DR version:

Thanks! 1) Doing LONG_PRESS PAD_A (what I, for lack of knowledge, call "jump-mantle" or "_jumpmantle") differs from doing PRESS PAD_A ("_jump"). "_jumpmantle" differs from "_mantle", so they must be mapped to different button-calls. "_jumpmantle" differs from "_jump", so they must also be mapped to different button-calls. This appears to be the case, but it is not evident (or changeable) in DarkmodPadbinds.cfg. "_jumpmantle" seems to be hard coded to always connect to the same button as "_jump" but with a long press. It is as if bindPadButton PRESS PAD_A "_jump" is not actually just binding PRESS PAD_A to "_jump", but rather interpreted as "link PAD_A (regardless of button press time) to behave exactly like keyboard SPACE for short and long presses". I would have expected the default DarkmodPadbinds.cfg to explicitly read: bindPadButton PRESS PAD_A "_jump" bindPadButton LONG_PRESS PAD_A "_jumpmantle" bindPadButton PRESS PAD_B "_crouch" bindPadButton LONG_PRESS PAD_B "_mantle" ... but neither LONG_PRESS PAD_A or "_jumpmantle" is listed in the file. If there are actions "_jump" and "_mantle", I suppose there must also be an action "_jumpmantle" since it is possible for the player to do all those movements: * "_mantle" does the movements "crouch on the high surface, then stand up" * "_jumpmantle" idoes the movements "jump slightly forward, then land standing on the high surface" * "_jump" idoes the movements "jump up, then land exactly where you started" If the actions "_jump" and "_moveup" are not synonymous, then perhaps the action "_moveup" is what i call "_jumpmantle"? 2) Thanks for the link! It was useful in more than one way. I'll link to that page from https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Bindings_and_User_Settings#Gamepad_Default_Bindings if I can get an account on the wiki, which proved more difficult than i thought (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/). However, it does not answer my question how to find out the name ("<button>") used for a button on my gamepad. Basically, I would need to press the button on my gamepad and some program could tell me "That button is called 'PAD_A'". In my case, I have a gamepad "Logitech F310" (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logitech_F310_Gamepad.jpg) which has a "Logitech button" (see image) that I want to use. I was hoping to find out the "button name" for that button and then edit DarkmodPadbinds.cfg to map it to a function. 3) ... but if that button has an "unusual name" that TDM does not recognize, then it may perhaps not work. E.g. if that button is called "PAD_LOGITECH" and TDM cannot recognize that name, then I cannot map anything to it via DarkmodPadbinds.cfg. Using QJoyPad I can map any keyboard key to it instead, as a workaround, but I cannot map MODIFIER to it (since MODIFIER cannot be set to a keyboard key). If current implementation is still called "experimental", then I must say it works very well; @cabalistic: kudos for that! I may not have continued playing TDM had it not worked with a gamepad.

It is possible that this is a setting that needs to be activated to work: https://mantisbt.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23221

Both points were latent Thief problems waiting to raise up, the first being real a pain in the ass. Unless the frob area around NPCs belts can be improved it'll always kind of suck, no matter which is the primary action. Previously, a missed belt frob would grab the torso and lock your frobbing until you released it.

There's good news and bad news. The good news is that this zip file does indeed contain the missing dat file. I have checked that it is compatible with the existing dds file across printable chars* of the standard ASCII set. I see no reason not to include it with the 2.12 distribution. *except testing method using "inline" subtitles can't do double-quotes. And I didn't try whole set of Latin-1 chars. The bad news is that in doesn't solve any problems with stray pixels or poorly spaced characters, compared to scaling down from Stone 24pt. Artifacts were seen to the left of % C T W Y During test, characters were separated by two spaces, to isolate which char was causing an artifact. Nor did I see any visually discernible improvement or change in the rendering of characters. I was looking for any thickening of the thin parts of strokes, for instance. BTW, both Stone 24pt and now Stone 12 pt have weird stuff for ASCII "<" and ">". Maybe that's a TDM customization? The > replacement includes an artifact to right.

I am going to sort-of reveal that this is loosely like the nature of my upcoming mission. I noted it here when JackFarmer asked about things that are coming along in this post: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/profile/37993-jackfarmer/&status=3943&type=status It too is a builder church. The player is requested by a hopefully famous character in another mission to handle some business that is affecting the congregation. I am looking to invoke some info and history laid down in other missions as a hook story.

I created the page: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Lightgem In the source I placed the following text: <!-- Page text made by forum user Fiver: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22327-how-can-i-create-an-account-on-the-tdm-wiki/&do=findComment&comment=491145 --> Personally I think the page isn't really necessary because the info is already present under HUD.

The problems with the lightening texture has vanished, moreover, the camera screens work now perfectly, I had here and there strange results (glass texture not showing up, lights do not show up) in 2.11 and the previous beta. Thank you @stgatilov

In the first post of the other topic Geep proposed: Then Stgatilov's answer: But I think applying subtitles in different languages shouldn't be too hard I would think, but I don't know how the current translation system works. The engine should apply the correct subtitles based on the applied language setting, this doesn't need a whole new language system I think. Not sure who's going to write those subtitles though. I can only do Dutch and English and nobody needs Dutch I think. I suggest further discussion of this to take place in topic https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/