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Yeah it would be cool to see some more detailed statistics and it’s a shame they aren’t really captured. Since we are talking about fan mission platforms, where players also make the content for the game, I feel like the best thing we’ve got is you can look at the number of content releases for the games. Keep in mind the graph counts campaigns as single missions - so for example NHAT and TBP both count as 1 mission. A good year for TDM has has approaching maybe 50% - mostly we’re 25-30%. https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152494 You could also look at the number of ratings thief missions get on https://www.thiefguild.com/ vs TDM ones, but that is pretty iffy in that you could chalk that up to more awareness of the site in the thief community than TDM Out of curiosity is there a reason a thief player can’t be a new player? I kind of think a player is a player and new players would be ones who are playing the dark mod who weren't? Is there disagreement the base of players most likely to pick up the game are fans of the thief games? They are certainly the most fruitful place to find feedback on the game beyond the sphere of this forum that I have seen. When we were trying to finish up SLL there was a lot of discussion on the forums about how long it had been since there was a release for the game. I am thankful that the stats show at least some stability over the years in terms of releases for TDM, but the trend for all of the games is decline. Not doing anything is a valid response if that’s what the devs want to do - it is not possible to provide evidence that any effort will slow that inertia. As a player and content maker I would just prefer trying to find feedback where it is offered from players who were willing to try the game but ultimately could not engage with it and see if there is anything that can be done within reason to ease them into the game. The game has a lot to offer imo. All those players are potential contributors - contributions in turn attract players - it’d be nice to see the cycle go on as long as it can.

Keep in mind that different Linux distros use different display architectures, some of which use GPU compositing. Some of the compositing based desktops hard-code vsync on regardless of driver setting. Conversely, some X11 based distros have notorious problems with vsync that can only be fixed by changing the default Window system or some other workaround.

I have been quite careful to ensure that making the subtitles narrower for barks (but not story verbosity) is not potentially breaking. Examples of this treatment have been included in all my more recent testSubtitles... releases. Yes, this is "crucial" for me. Regarding the padding issue, to restate: TDM 2.11 and on through the 2.12 released beta version use a subtitle right text padding of 20 px. While some padding is necessary, this does a poor job of centering the text visually in the backing field. This is obvious with a short bark. My redo of this, with padding of 7.5px on both sides, fixes it, while I believe not causing any problems for word wrap of subtitles with the given compressed font & scale. I'm provided several versions above of this fix (code hidden as Spoiler). Most recently, this was with snatcher's suggested tabbed location ring and vertically-tighter backing field, here This version will also be incorporated into testSubtitlesDrunk, to be released tomorrow just released. I would urge you to incorporate this code (or a close variant) into the next beta release.

Creating a new thread for this as it was being discussed in an old beta-testing thread starting here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/&do=findComment&comment=490751 I suppose the main questions are: when should this spawnarg be used, if at all? why was it introduced in the first place? Can we get it documented properly on the Wiki so misuse isn't propagated? @stgatilov @Dragofer

I did a little testing of SVN 10610 and 10611 and haven't seen any light \ shadow problems thus far. I mostly play in shadow-map mode but I think the problems mostly impact stencil? ( haven't seen any issues in stencil mode either ). I think the reverted Doom 3 style frustum may have cured the light leaks above some shielded electric street lamps too. It also may have improved the appearance to lighting in the mission "Behind Closed Doors" ( noticed more shading variation on the walls of the large stairway at the start of the mission ). Could be placebo, gotta compare screenshots.

I have assumed that, although there are models made, it is not a simple copy - paste, independent if it is from these repositories or stolen from other games. Regarding AI, it can be a good tool for certain assets, bad only if it is used as a shortcut to create a game and not just as another design tool. The AI tool listed, although it can be create other things, can be used very well to quickly create textures, for example, saving time in the game developement. AI also can be used to create classical paintings, much used in TDM, without any copyright problems, things like this, and maybe even better adapt to the plot as the same paintings used since several Years now, apart of the one I made for the Black Mage. It is clear that stealing designs from other creators is very ugly and certainly a bad path, which is why I have said that piracy is not necessary, with the free and open-use resources available. You surely have other sources of these, apart from the list What I put.

Looking at the code, the originals were "pm_mantle_pull 750" and "pm_mantle_pullFast 450". The new "pm_mantle_pull" value is "400". A "pm_mantle_pullFast" value of "450" would be slower than regular pull, not faster. With both being set to "400", they are at least similar. Other than that, it's subjective and the feedback from playtesters was positive. Also, referenced internally here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22256-movementcontrols-settings-in-main-menu/&do=findComment&comment=489158

That sort of tone doesn't fly in our forums.

I would use this massive list for any fan missions, it includes campaigns too: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148090 There are a lot of Fan Missions for the picking, I myself go for the lesser known ones and the short variety, because sometimes they hide a gem or two. Just like jaxa, I'm a bit outdated after the temporal retirement, but I do remember some amazing campaigns like "The Black Frog". If you intend to play The Black Frog, you should play the first two of the L'Arsene series missions, it's how I did it myself. Also, yes, L'Arsene are a fantastic series. The first mission of L'Arsene is a "rough draft", author was a bit new to Thief level making, but still great either way, after the 3rd you will see how his skill increased by a massive amount.

Unfortunately, TDM forum deletes the separator between the numbers. So I have to guess where one number ends and the next starts Also, user can rename screenshot manually, or push it through something that would rename it automatically. Thenwe won't see coordinates on screenshot address on forums.

tdm_show_viewpos cvar and screenshot_viewpos command: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22310-212-viewpos-on-player-hud-and-screenshots/

Relax @Näkki, it's great to hear you enjoyed the game. My personal expectations were just a bit different when I read the Steam page, although the various trailers should have been a warning that stealth maybe wasn't the biggest priority of the devs. From the Steam page: "Weird west legends meet eldritch horror in BLOOD WEST, an immersive stealth FPS." Also "Blood West is a stealth FPS inspired by the genre classics such as the Thief series (whose fans will be happy to hear the voice of Stephen Russell, the actor voicing the master-thief Garrett, returning here as the protagonist), S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games, or - from the contemporary catalog - Hunt: Showdown. The gameplay rewards the careful approach: scouting the area, stalking your enemies, and striking from the shadows. Can you figure out a way to clear a fort full of ghouls and monsters without raising an alarm?" From my personal experience I think the game is predominantly Hunt: Showdown, a bit of S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and a very small portion Thief. Stealth is very unforgiving and makes it almost impossible early game when there are various enemies around, but hey maybe I just suck at it. I don't see Deus Ex in it, unless the skill leveling is the Deus Ex part for you and then I have to disagree with you, as that seems like the trait system in Hunt: Showdown. Edit: What I also understood from the Steam forums is that the original VA was dropped close before the release of the full version and replaced by Russell with no real explanation from the devs why this was done.

The devs didn't title this thread, and @datiswous said they're attempting to mislead people by using Russell's name and a retro style to make it resemble Thief, which is cynical. I grew up on forums like I'm sure anyone who likes a game from '98 did. I actually left the Discord immediately after joining it because it was more off-topic doom-posting than anything relevant to the mod. I thought the forums might be better, but it's mostly just grown men yelling at clouds and telling strangers how mature they are, and a few brave souls actually developing anything. Depressing place, I'll just stick to enjoying new missions every 6 months without an account.

True, but, 1. this thread is called "Western stealth FPS with Stephen Russell", and, 2. nothing you said changes anything for me. The gameplay still doesn't look like something I'd enjoy. And, if you really think this forum is cynical, then you don't visit forums much. Actually, the majority of the users are are pretty mature, unlike in other forums.

My implementation is just a simple gui script cmd, is very naive and just follows the same system of other existing gui script cmds, made by idSoftware. I have zero idea if is synchronous or asynchronous that is beyond my expertise, nor if it is the same as done in Quake 4. Plus like I said above I do remember experiencing some small problems with it, when trying to use it to call more complex namedEvent's, that may be connected to the "synchronous or asynchronous" stuff.

So, if I understand you, no Thief Gold FM does sound and text notifications of completed objectives? The missions in The Black Parade surely did. I'm completely confused now. I was sure that original Thief Gold had those objective complete notifications (at least the sound). Reading this thread suggests otherwise though: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132977

I've got a Windows 11 machine. TDM players on Linux are running into problems with my mission; it appears these are Linux-specific issues. I'd like to have a Linux install of TDM, to verify these issues (and maybe be able to submit bug reports). What's the best technique for getting a Linux install on my Windows computer? My ignorance of Linux knows no bounds . How do these options look? https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/how-to-run-any-linux-distro-alongside-windows-11 Thanks!

A Problem Arises I've paused subtitling of the Lady02 vocal set, because of a problem with the voice clips described here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21741-subtitles-possibilities-beyond-211/&do=findComment&comment=490151 While a way forward is being determined, I'll work on a different vocal set. Maybe manbeast, for which Kingsal just provided me the voice script.

Changelog of 2.12 development: release212 (rev 16989-10651) * Training Mission reverted to 2.11 state, except for text changes about new controls. beta212-07 (rev 16982-10651) * Fixed save/load of turrets. * Fixed some more cases of camera clipping during force-crouched mantle (6425). * Fixed crash if player wins twice in quick succession (6489). * Added angRotate script event. * Fixed church_altar prefab (6285). beta212-06 (rev 16970-10644) * Fixed light leaks workaround dropped after save + load (post). * Force doors which connect visportal to cast shadows regardless of light flow (post). * Improved candle vs junk detection for new frob controls (6316). * Fixed player getting stuck at start of "One Step Too Far" (post). * Fixed warning on spawning atdm:env_ragdoll_tdm_spider. * Fixed wrong skin in mechanical/switches/switch_rotate_lever prefab (6479). * Fixed double slash in lady02 subtitle decls (post). * Fixed rotated versions of safe03_wall prefab (6268). * Tweaked fogging of health potion. * Fixed overbright skins for nature bushes (6478). * Fixed Grandfather_clock_victorian_01 model (6383). * Removed pause from looping sound machinery/machines/m3_loop (6384). * Fixed broken func_portals in Training Mission (4352). * Minor improvements in Saint Lucia mission. * Doubled game scripts memory limit (post). * Improved normal map of long banners (6355). beta212-05 (rev 16950-10635) * Fixed player seeing through ceiling when mantling into crouched state (6425). * Improved how frobbing works on junk items (6316). * Toggled states of player movement are saved and restored properly (6458). * Fixed back image loading optimization. * Added canCloseDoors spawnarg on AI, which allows to block closing only (6460). * Rats and spiders are non-shoulderable by default (6456). * Increased wait in screenshot_viewpos macro command (6331). * Added forest models from The Valley abandoned mission. * Fixed frobstage on sign models (6457). * Added vine arrows to training mission (4352). * Improved Merry Chest prefabs (6459). * Fixed normal map of dirt_packed_muddy (4668). * Fixed nails in door_boarded_up01 model. * Fixed attachments of atdm:fireplace_place_base (6474). * Fixed editor image of blocks_large_sandstone, rough_grey_dirty_sepia_grey_trim (6281, 6464). * Added editor image for grey_dirty_trim material. * Adjusted tooltip for auto-search bodies. beta212-04 (rev 16932-10626) * Added massive package of subtitles for AI sounds (6240, thread). * Fixes in envshot command (5796). * Added nature/dirt/ash_and_coals texture (6441). beta212-03 (rev 16902-10623) * Improved subtitles layout and location ring picture (p1 p2). * Fixed broken remote render with soft stencil shadows. * Added color buffer clears to fix remote render breaking skybox (6424). * Fixed warning generated by remote render (6424). * Fixed min_lod_bias being ignored if no other LOD settings is specified (6359). * Now changing LOD settings effects objects with min_lod_bias immediately (6359). * Fixed text & background alignment in mission lists (6337). * Fixed gaps in chandelier models (6433). * Added missing editor texture for carpet/runners/ornate_red_black03_end (6435). * Further expansion of listRenderLightDefs and listLightEntityDefs commands. beta212-02 (rev 16889-10613) * Fixed underwater rendering due to missing doublevision shader (post). * Exclude more lights from the new light portal flow optimizations (5172, 6321). * black_matt is now fully black, no tiny green bias (post). * Fixed lockpick interruption when mouse cursor switches between door and handle. * Extended listRenderLightDefs and listLightEntityDefs commands. * Fixed church_altar.pfb (6285). * Added window01_curtains01.lwo in separate parts (6356). * tdm_open_doors now opens locked doors too. * Fixed rare case of getting NaN in spline mover. * Added r_skipEntities cvar, similar to "filter entities" in DR. * Added editor spawnargs for volumetric light properties (6322). * Fixed radius override and added position override for script-based stims. * Fixed warnings with wrong virtual function overrides. beta212-01 (rev 16879-10584) * Fixed player falling through elevator when shouldering a body (6259). * Rebalanced volume of all player footsteps (6348). * Fixed weird animation when mixing drawn bow and main menu (2758). * Fixed all kind of issues with bc_teatray material. * Added alternative frob controls mode tdm_holdfrob_drag_all_entities for dragging on hold. * Fixed non-actor entities always getting full splash damage. * Hide console before screenshot with screenshot_viewport command (6331). * Added tdm_subtitles_ring cvar to disable subtitles location ring. * Added mission.cfg as a temporary way for mission to override non-archived cvars (5453). * Cvars "pm_lean_*" are no longer archived (6320). * Removed some cvar overrides from atdm:player_base. * CFrobLock now supports script events: Lock, Unlock, ToggleLock, IsLocked, IsPickable (6329). * Simplified flee script event, supported fleeing from non-actor entity and fleeFromPoint. * Fixed crash on some non-standard cases of flinderize. * Can set spawnarg "douse 0" on damageDef to not extinguish lights from splash damage. * Added setFrobMaster script event. * Added script-based stim type, which triggers only when stimEmit script event is called. * Added on/off script events to func_emitter entity. * Added setSmoke script event to change particle decl for a func_smoke. * Added hasInvItem script event to check if player has some item. * Added launchGuided script event to start guided projectiles. * Added getInterceptTime script event for shooting projectile and running target. * Added "bounce_sound_min|max_velocity" spawnargs to control projectile bounce sounds. * Added "postbounce_*" spawnargs to change projectile properties after bounce. * Fixes to moor guard ragdoll (6345). * Fixed wench AI sounds (6284). * Added new experimental entityDef for an automatic turret. * Official missions no longer pretend to be part of 3-mission campaign (6338). * Removed AI PAIN messages console spam. * Removed excessive "s_volume 0" from base loot entityDefs (6346). * Replaced symbol on the proguard's belt. * Default value of com_maxfps increased from 144 to 300. * Improved idEntityPtr, fixed some warnings. dev16854-10518 * High mantle animation has become much faster (6343). * Crouching while on ladder/rope now causes player to slide instantly. * Added "forceShadowBehindOpaque" hack to workaround shadow leaks in old missions (5172). * Fixed and revised underwater "double vision" effect (6300). * Add scratch images have alpha = 1, which fixes some mirror materials (6300). * Added warning if material output color depends on input alpha, fixed it in core assets (6340). * Support several independent user addon scripts (6336). * Fixed missing headbob and footsteps at very high FPS (4696). * Fixed player hanging mid-air in a jump at very high FPS (6333). * Don't crash if player's head does not exist (6326). * Added "fade in fast" options for frobhelper (6342). * Removed "show tooltips" option, now it is always on (6344). * Added default spawnarg values to "text" debug entityDef (6325). * Fixed some uninitialized values, float overflows and NaNs across the code. * Reorganized covered furniture models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6289). dev16842-10488 * Major changes in frob/use controls: holding frob does different thing now (6316, thread). * Fixed some electric lights not spawning. * It is no longer necessary to specify extension to reference PNG image. * Added cvar tdm_show_viewpos and command screenshot_viewpos (6331). * Fixed hanging when light is moved through a plane with many visportals (3815, thread). * Fixed multipage readables stuck on empty page, improved page flipping (6313). * Fixed WAV sounds playing in main menu, all sounds are streaming now (6330). * Fixed light leaks along scissor rectangle boundary with soft stencil shadows (thread). * Better subtitles location visualization (6264). * Changed position of subtitle blocks and subtitle font (6264). * Internal refactoring of idImage class (6300). * Fixed rare bug in renderworld raycasting... might happen with particle collisions. * Fixed warnings in newspaper_bridgeport0X core readable GUI (6245). * Added vec4 GUI keyword (6164). * Renamed pm_lean_toggle cvar to tdm_toggle_lean. * Improved "head bob" and "mantle roll" settings in main menu. * Updated FFmpeg to 4.4.4 (6314). Known issues: * Various problems after image refactoring: underwater, mirrors, etc. dev16829-10455 * Allowed to mantle while carrying/manipulating an object (5892, thread). * Allowed to change weapon while mantling or on rope/ladder (6319). * Several leaning improvements (6320, thread). * Parallel shadow-casting lights are deprecated, use parallelSky instead (6306). * Added many menu settings for autoloot body, blackjack helper, and other (6311). * Deleted option for autolooting bodies with one item per frob, added menu setting (6257). * Added cvar to modify all head bobbing settings (6310). * Fixed some corner cases with multiloot (6270). * Fixed frob helper's "always visible" mode (6318). * New&fixed versions of atdm:lamp_electric_square_3_lit_unattached (6315). * Fixed UV map on Stove models (6312). * Reworked r_showPrimitives + deleted code for rendering from CPU buffers. * Shortened name of end-mission autosaves (6294). * Consistent names of various arrows. Known issues: * Some electric lights don't spawn. dev16818-10434 * Fixed projectiles flying through player and enemies sometimes (6292). * Lights with noshadows spawnarg pass through walls again (5172). * Disabled portal flow culling optimization for parallel lights (5172, 6306). * Faster light-entity interactions matching if light is noshadows due to spawnarg (6296). * Compression of images to DXT1/3/5 is done in software (6300). * Cleaned up rounding math routines (6300). * r_showportals 2 is easier to understand now * Changed rules for getting start areas of parallelSky light (6306). dev16814-10408 * Optimized portal flow culling for shadowing lights (5172). * Extended dmap diagnostics to info_portalSettings, improved editor descriptions (6224). * Added test commands: tdm_open_doors and tdm_close_doors. * Minor adjustments to ear-cutting algorithm in dmap. * Minor refactoring in image compression code (6300). dev16809-10394 * r_shadowMapSinglePass is enabled by default now. * Fixed lack of shadows in volumetric lights under r_shadowMapSinglePass (6271). * Fixed interaction rendering on materials with polygonOffset (5868). * Optimized code for finding light-entity interactions on large maps (6296). * Optimized moving shadowing lights: don't create interactions in unreachable areas (5172). * More refactoring in backend: tonemap shader (6271). * Added more covered furniture models (6289). * Added wall models from Seeking Lady Leicester (6293). Known issues: * Some noshadows lights no longer pass through walls. dev16801-10370 * Supported -durationExtend for inline subtitles (6262). * Added blue noise dithering to tonemap shader, which fixed color banding of fog (6271). * Optimized away unnecessary render copy under "useNewRenderPasses 1" (6271). * Refactored blend and fog lights into new backend architecture. For troubleshooting, reduce cvar useNewRenderPasses to 1 or 0 (6271). * Added 30 case to max FPS selection in settings menu. dev16792-10357 * Fixed particles bound to animated joints (6099). * idVec3 is no longer initialized to zero by default (6280). * Integrated Address Sanitizer tool and fixed a few found bugs (6280). dev16789-10349 * Deleted old backend completely + some cleaning (6271). * Fixed map icon wrong name (thread). * Now light entities support noPortalFog spawnarg (6282). * Support fonts aspect ratio correction (6283). * Fixed playerstart customization (thread). * Refactored "render pass" part into new backend architecture. For troubleshooting, try cvar "useNewRenderPasses 0". Also "textures/particles/blacksmokepuff" now works (6271) * Now arithmetic expressions in materials support min/max functions (6271). * Minor initialization cleanup (6280). dev16785-10319 * "r_shadowMapSinglePass 1" now respects noselfshadows flag (6271). * Continued refactoring in shadow maps and render-pass shaders (6271). dev16783-10307 * Backported new rendering backend to uniforms, should work like the old one now (6271). * "Auto" lockpicking difficulty now unlocks pin from after one cycle (6256). * Added "auto-search bodies" feature under tdm_autosearch_bodies cvar (6257). * Added r_shadowMapAlphaTested cvar for single-pass shadow maps (6271). dev16781-10289 * Added first version of direction and volume cues to subtitles (6264). * Allow subtitles to extend duration of sound sample (6262). * Improved slot allocation algorithm for subtitles, a subtitle no longer changes slot (6264). * Fixed bug that stereo sample plays for 2x duration due to length confusion. * Upgraded libpng and rebuilt third-party packages. * Internal fixes of depth bounds test asserts. dev16778-10275 * Allow limited mantling with a shouldered body (5892). * Fixed toggle creep and improved settings layout in the menu (6242). * Fixed bounding boxes of animated entities and particles, enabled r_useEntityScissors by default (6099). * Trigger call_on_exit before call_on_entry when switching locations. * Don't expand bounds of surfaces with turbulent deform (5990). * Removed "gui" spawnarg on GUI message to avoid first frame (6117). Known issues: * Particles bounds to animated joints broken. Changelog of earlier versions can be found here.

Black Parade is released ! https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152429

Body awareness please. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20013-are-you-gonna-add-this/

If the "mission fails as soon as stealth score turns non-zero," that would not be good for ghost players. They might need to find out "how" they failed and experiment to avoid alerting guards. They might need to take those score points as a "bust". They might need to take those score points to complete an objective. Then, mission authors would need to encode exceptions into their missions, which would be a lot of work (if they decide to do it at all). However, part of what makes ghosting challenging and fun is when mission authors do not create their missions with ghosting in mind. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Writing code for these rules would be a huge undertaking. Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Creating an official mode could alienate these dedicated ghost players, because it would clash with what is considered ghosting in the community. Including the Stealth Stat Tool mod in the official release would be more useful. Or, making the audible alert states of guards quick and easy to recognize could help as well. For these reasons, I don't agree with an official "Ghost" mode. If the dev team were to do it, we should consult with @Klatremus so we get it 100% correct or not pursue it at all. (This ghosting bit should probably be in its own thread.)

I loved it. Awesome game. I faceplanted at the people who asked for quest markers in the Steam forums there... Herr, lass Hirn regnen. The game is so great, and so true to the original, because it doesn't hold your hand. When is the new breed of gamers gonna learn.

A couple more: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21739-resolved-allow-mantling-while-carrying-a-body/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22211-feature-proposal-new-lean-for-tdm-212/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22198-feature-proposal-frob-to-use-world-item/ https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22249-212-auto-search-bodies/

I agree that this would solve many problems TDM has for new players, especially with our new mildly inconsistent control scheme, but it goes against the design philosphy of TDM, which is, to be as immersive as possible with as little HUD as possible.