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Complaint From Players The player must pick up candles before extinguishing them, and then the player must remember to drop the candle. The player must drag a body before shouldering it (picking it up), and the player must remember to frob again to stop dragging the body. The player finds this annoying or easy to make mistakes. For players who ghost, some of them have the goal of returning objects back to their original positions. With the current "pick up, use item, and drop" system, the item might not return easily or at all to its original position. For example, a candlestick might bounce off its holder. (See player quotes at the bottom.) Bug Tracker https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6316 Problems to Solve How can the "pick up" step be eliminated so that the player can directly use or interact with the item where it is in the game world? How can so much key pressing and mouse clicking be eliminated when the player wants to directly use an item? How can candles be extinguished and lanterns toggled off/on without first picking them up? How can bodies be shouldered without first dragging them? Solution Design Goals Make TDM easier for new players while also improving it for longtime players. Reduce tedious steps for common frob interactions. Make it intuitive so that menu settings are unnecessary. Do not introduce bugs or break the game. Terms frob -- the frob button action happens instantly. hold frob -- the frob button is held for 200ms before the action happens. (This can be changed via cvar: 200ms by default.) Proposed Solution Note: Some issues have been struckthrough to show changes since the patch has been updated. Change how frobbing works for bodies, candles, and lanterns. For bodies: Frob to shoulder (pick up) a body. Second frob to drop shouldered body, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Hold frob (key down) to start drag, continue to hold frob (key down) to drag body, and then release frob (key up) to stop dragging body. Also, a body can be dragged immediately by holding frob and moving the mouse. For candles/lanterns: Frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. Hold frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. For food: Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to eat food. For other items: No change. New cvar "tdm_frobhold_delay", default:"200" The frob hold delay (in ms) before drag or extinguish. Set to 0 for TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Benefits Bodies: New players will have less to learn to get started moving knocked out guards. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players have played several missions before realizing that they could shoulder a body instead of dragging it long distances. Frob to shoulder body matches Thief, so longtime Thief players will find it familiar. Second frob drops a shouldered body. Players still have the ability to both shoulder and drag bodies. Compatible with the new auto-search bodies feature. Dragging feels more natural -- just grab, hold, and drop with a single button press. There is no longer the need to press the button twice. Also, it's no longer possible to walk away from a body while unintentionally dragging it. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Candles: New players will have less to learn to get started extinguishing candles. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players didn't know they could extinguish candles by picking them up and using them. Instead, they resorted to throwing them to extinguish them or hiding them. Hold frob to extinguish a candle feels like "pinching" it out. Once a candle is picked up, players still have the ability to manipulate and use them the same way they are used to in TDM v2.11 and earlier. For players who ghost and have the goal of putting objects back to their original positions, they'll have an easier time and not have to deal with candles popping off their holders when trying to place them back carefully. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Issues Bodies: Frob does not drop a shouldered body, so that might be unexpected for new players. This is also different than Thief where a second frob will drop a body. "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item" drops the body. This is the same as TDM v2.11 and earlier. This is the price to pay for being able to frob (open/close) doors while shouldering a body. Patch was updated to drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Candles: Picking up a candle or lantern requires a slight delay, because the player must hold the frob button. The player might unintentionally extinguish a candle while moving it if they hold down frob. The player will need to learn that holding frob will extinguish the candle. The player can change the delay period via the "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar. Also, when the cvar is set to a delay of 0, the behavior matches TDM v2.11 and earlier, meaning the player would have to first "Frob/Interact" to pick up the candle and then press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish it. Some players might unintentionally extinguish a candle when they are trying to move it or pick it up. They need to make sure to hold frob to initiate moving the candle. When a candle is unlit, it will highlight but do nothing on frob. That might confuse players. However, the player will likely learn after extinguishing several candles that an unlit candle still highlights. It makes sense that an already-extinguished candle cannot be extinguished on frob. The official "Training Mission" might need to have its instructions updated to correctly guide the player through candle manipulation training. Updating the training mission to include the hold frob to extinguish would probably be helpful. Similar Solutions In Fallout 4, frob uses an item and long-press frob picks it up. Goldwell's mission, "Accountant 2: New In Town", has candles that extinguish on frob without the need of picking them up first. Snatcher's TDM Modpack includes a "Blow / Ignite" item that allows the player to blow out candles Wesp5's Unofficial Patch provides a way to directly extinguish movable candles by frobbing. Demonstration Videos Note: The last two videos don't quite demonstrate the latest patch anymore. But the gist is the same. This feature proposal is best experienced in game, but some demonstration videos are better than nothing. The following videos show either a clear improvement or that the player is not slowed down with the change in controls. For example, "long-press" sounds long, but it really isn't. Video: Body Shouldering and Dragging The purpose of this video is to show that frob to shoulder a body is fast and long-press frob to drag a body is fast enough and accurate. Video: Long-Press Frob to Pick Up Candle The purpose of this video is to show how the long-press frob to pick up a candle isn't really much slower than regular frob. Video: Frob to Extinguish The purpose of this video -- if a bit contrived -- is to show the efficiency and precision of this proposed feature. The task in the video was for the player to as quickly and accurately as possible extinguish candles and put them back in their original positions. On the left, TDM v2.11 is shown. The player has to highlight each candle, press "Frob/Interact" to pick up, press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish, make sure the candle is back in place, and finally press "Frob/Interact" to drop the candle. The result shows mistakes and candles getting misplaced. On the right, the proposed feature is shown. The player frobs to extinguish the candles. The result shows no mistakes and candles are kept in their original positions. Special Thanks @Wellingtoncrab was instrumental in improving this feature during its early stages. We had many discussions covering varying scenarios, pros, and cons, and how it would affect the gameplay and player experience. Originally, I had a completely different solution that added a special "use modifier" keybinding. He suggested the frob to use and long-press frob to pick up mechanics. I coded it up, gave it a try, and found it to be too good. Without his feedback and patience, this feature wouldn't be as good as it is. Thank you, @Wellingtoncrab! And, of note, @Wellingtoncrab hasn't been able to try it in game yet, because I'm using Linux and can't compile a Windows build for him. So, if this feature isn't good, that's my fault. Code Patch I'll post the code patch in another post below this one so that folks who compile TDM themselves can give this proposal a try in game. And, if you do, I look forward to your feedback! Player Complaints TTLG (2023-01-10) Player 1: TDM Forums (2021-03-13) Player 2: Player 3: TDM Forums (2023-06-17) Player 4: TDM Discord (2021-05-18) Player 5: TDM Discord (2023-02-14) Player 6: Player 7: Player 8:

Ah, pity I wasn't reading the forums back in February. I'm fond of that game, along with Bugbear's other early title, Rally Trophy. I was never too good at FlatOut, but it was always a hoot to play.

I'm working in DarkRadiant on a new map, and I'm having something odd I've never experienced before. There's a fire in a stove model on the second floor of a building... walls, floor, ceiling, etc are all worldspawn brushes with appropriate textures, neither player nor AI have any trouble traversing the entire place, so I think it's assembled as it should be. However, if I douse the stove on the second floor with a water arrow, the water splash somehow drips through the floor brush and douses a torch in the same rough area down on the first floor. I tested it on various positions in the building, and it seems to happen everywhere, not just on that one light. Water arrows that impact on the second floor fall through the floor, and if a light is presence in the fall area it's extinguished. Is this expected behaviour? I would have through a solid brush would stop water from traveling any further once released.

I'm returning to continue my work, and this silly problem eludes me. Thanks for your help!

The "Sad News" title startles me a little bit everytime I check the subforum. But that's great. Don't change it. I did not have time to play this yet, but I am looking forward to it.

I want to adjust the volume of a speaker from script. I have a pan with "beef links" cooking on a stove. as the player takes them away (one by one) I want the "sizzle" sound to decrease. When all have been taken, I turn off the speaker from script. Works fine EXCEPT the volume is not changed. I tried $speaker_sausages.setKey("s_volume", 2); as well as negative values, but it does not change. The starting value on the speaker is s_volume 10. What am I doing wrong?

Hello folks, I wanted to share some work in progress comps for the main menu visual updates. (these were done a while ago) These are working in game, but are still just examples. I haven't looked into any of the more complicated menus (settings, mission downloader, slide show mission briefings, ect) Right now I am not planning on changing the UX, these are purely visual updates. EDIT: In-game menus have a requirement that we use the same text color. (so we dont break custom guis in-game) I'll post some mock ups of those soon. Let me know what you think! Using custom missions screenshot (curtesy of @Spooks) Btw this NOT volta 3 (i wish), its just a comp Using the default background art: Mock up of the store (needs some work to make more legible):

Damn right, and I personally am going to keep making changes on how I want MY mission to be played and what I think is best for MY FMs. If that's not to your tastes, then I'm sorry these changes don't align with your preferences, but there are tons of other missions you can play that do. FM authors have ZERO obligation to provide uniform experiences that try to cater to everyone. Some people are going to enjoy these custom changes (I really loved the Resident Evil style saves, and I can't wait to see more missions with that) and other players are gonna be unhappy about them, and that's a crying shame, but it is not going to stop me from making FMs how I want them to be. Never once has a beta tester or a player brought up an issue about these kinds of choices I made for my FMs

I think this is a slippery slope fallacy. Just because the ability to customize exists does not mean most mappers will use it. On the contrary, if one considers the customization that are already available, we see that the overwhelming majority of mappers stick to the defaults. The exceptions are interesting also. Kingsal's the only mapper that readily comes to mind who habitually deviates from presets seemingly just for the sake of being different. However everything they make is clearly in service of cohesive visions. Hazard Pay, no matter how you feel about it, unarguably loses a great deal of its survival horror character if you take away the napalm arrows or the punishing save system. The Voltas don't need to use Thief style elemental crystals in place of TDMs arrow model, but the fact that they are there makes a definite statement about the author's awareness of their inspiration for their work in TDM from the original games, which in turn draws attention to other, subtler creative choices. I think it's also telling that some of kingsal's modifications have been adopted by other authors. As OrbWeaver said, "If the defaults are widely disliked, they should be changed." However, how can the community come to a consensus unless there are maps to showcase the advantages of new innovations? Requesting, or worse requiring, players to go in and manually change settings in order to experience a new mechanic is never going to gain any traction. Certainly it is not worth the effort of creating an entire map built around a new paradigm.

Rest in Peace Jonathan "Tim the Tool-Man" Taylor Thomas. Lost but not forgotten.

NVIDIA announced the 16nm Pascal GTX 1080 and GTX 1070 GPUs. The $599 GTX 1080 will be more powerful than Titan X, GTX 980 Ti, or two GTX 980s. Neither card uses High Bandwidth Memory like the top Pascal GPU, Tesla P100. Intel's Broadwell-E flagship enthusiast CPU, the Core i7-6950X, is expected to have 10 cores. AMD Zen mainstream desktop CPUs could have 6-8 cores. The architecture has moved from Bulldozer's Clustered Multithreading to Simultaneous Multithreading, which is closer to Intel's design and has two threads per core. Zen desktop CPUs will be released before laptop CPUs. There could be a 16 core APU in 2017. AMD's 14 or 16nm Polaris GPUs will apparently be cheaper and cooler, rather than trying to compete with the GTX 1080's performance. The Radeon R9 490 could cost $300. The Polaris GPUs will not have High Bandwidth Memory, which will instead be added to 2017 Vega GPUs as successors to the Fury series. Sony could launch a "PS4K" console using an AMD Polaris GPU and faster Jaguar CPU capable of playing the current PS4 games in 2160p instead of 1080p. It could also boost frame rates for the PSVR.

@greebo Every time I start DR, the ortho views are all at Y/X I can go to each window then CTRL-TAB to get them where I want, like it was before with splitpane. But when I close DR and open it again, they're all back to defaults.

While I really like new things in TDM, I fear that as long as these ideas are not part of the core mod, only very mission authors will use them...

Hmmm. I still like my idea of shooting broadhead arrows at fragile lights to turn them off, but I like your idea as well! It's not like we couldn't use a new item, and it's something mappers would have control of by only placing it on levels where we want to have this behavior. But then we'll have to make all lights frobable by default so even this approach would be a little complicated.

@snatcher I understand that when you feel your work doesn't live up to your goals that you don't want it out in the wild advertising your own perceived shortcomings but that leads to a troubling dilemma of authors who are never satisfied with their work offering fleeting access to their in-progress designs then rescinding them or allowing them to be lost. When I was a member of Doom3world forums, I would often see members do interesting experiments and sometimes that work would languish until someone new would examine it and pickup the torch. This seemed like a perfectly viable system until Doom3world was killed by spambots and countless projects and conceptual works were lost. I guess what I am trying to say is that mods don't need to be perfect to be valuable. If they contain some grain of a useable feature they might be adapted by mission authors in custom scenarios. They might offer instructive details that others trying to achieve the same results can examine. It would be great if known compelling works were kept somewhere safe other than via forum attachments and temporary file sharing sites. I suppose we used to collect such things in our internal SVN for safe keeping but even that isn't always viable. If folks would rather not post beta or incomplete mods to TDM's Moddb page, perhaps they would consider creating their own Moddb page or allow them to be added to my page for safe keeping. Please don't look at this as some sort of pressure campaign or anything. I fully understand anyone not willing to put their name next to something they aren't fully happy with. As a general proviso, ( if possible \ permitted ) I just want to prevent the loss of some valuable investigations and formative works. The end of Doom3world was a digital apocalypse similar to the death of photobucket. It is one of my greatest fears that TDM will become a digital memory with only the skeletons of old forum threads at the wayback archive site.

I have been out of this for four years (cancer, diabetes,COVID) but am trying to RE-learn Dark Radiant, and going back to the mission I started to create back then. But no matter what I add, delete, change in DR it does not show when running the FM! I can see the map file in the map folder under the FM is updating. I have also tried loading it via console, but same problem. Another issue is the dang AAS files. No mater how many time I DMAP it still says out of date. No AAS files show up in the map folder either, which might be why. Can someone help this old guy out? GRRRR

The original sin of the RTX 3070 is the VRAM amount, not the bandwidth. 7600 XT 16 GB has half the bus width and 64% the bandwidth (288 vs 448 GB/s), and even it can be made to benefit from the doubled VRAM. You're going to see some RTX 5000 cards with 256-bit bus and 16 GB, 192-bit and 12 GB. Though it will be faster GDDR7.

I wanted to bring this up for a while and am sorry I took so long. As such this thread is based on an old observation, I didn't retest recently but from what I know this limitation still exists with the latest code. If others confirm it and the issue is considered solvable I may post it to the bug tracker as well. EFX for spatial sounds are an amazing addition we had in recent years, however they suffer from a noticeable limitation: Reverb only accounts only for the location of the player and not that of sound. Sounds originating from a place with reverberation will not cause any echo if the player isn't standing in that room... oppositely sounds coming from outside will be heard with the full extent of the reverb effect in the room you're hearing them from, they should be echoing less due to not originating from the reverberating hallway. Example: Let's say there's a Builder church with a large hallway containing a reverb definition, inside there's an ambient sound of chanting. If the player is standing in front of the church door, they will hear the chanting without any kind of echo: Only once they step through the door and walk inside the echo suddenly makes itself heard. In a realistic scenario you'll hear the reverberation of any sound coming from a room that causes it, even if you're standing far outside that room hearing this noise in the distance. The simple solution would be a mixture between the location of the player's camera and that of the sound source: Each sound gets 75% the reverb defined in the room it's originating from, then on top of that all sounds being heard by the player anywhere have 25% the reverb of the room the player's standing in (current functionality). The more realistic but also more complicated option would be to use the portal tracing already implemented for sound attenuation and make each sound pick up reverb from each EFX room it passes through, accounting for the room of origin the room the player's standing in but also the rooms it's passing through; That way a noise emanating on one side of a building and passing through open windows in a corridor to reach the player on the other side would still echo, even if both that sound and the player are located outside in an area without reverb.

Hello, all. This thread is meant as a follow-up companion piece to my previous thread listing royalty-free music by Kevin MacLeod that could be usable for new missions for The Dark Mod. In this thread, I take a slightly different approach. Instead of focusing on one author and his royalty-free music, I'll be writing an ever-expanding list of songs, compositions tracks and ambients by various musical artists that could come in useful for mission makers working on FMs for TDM. Aside from ambient music for background atmosphere, I'll also be listing some historical music and compositions from the real world's ca 14th-17th century that are in the public domain and could be used as background music in your missions, provided that someone does a royalty-free recording of them (i.e. not released on some payed-for album, but at most a royalty-free album or online collection/archive). Please note that, though I will try to provide you with links to royalty-free versions of historical compositions in particular, I sometimes might not be sure of the status of some of these recreations/recordings and you'll have to snoop around for their royalty-free status on your own. However, if you do confirm that, e.g. some freelance artist recorded a well-known 16th century piece of music, and is giving it away royalty-free, possibly with the only necessity being attribution, then please let me know and I'll include any download links and the details concerning necessary attribution. Thank you ! And now, it's time to begin... ---- Royalty-free ambients As in "free to distribute and use (though possibly with attribution)", not necessarily "free of the TDM universe royalty". Free Music Archive (FMA) From his particular website, I'll only be including tracks that have broad Creative Commons licenses or free licenses, and tracks that are suited to both Non-commercial and Commercial use. In other words, largelly CC BY 4.0 and CC BY 4.0 Deed. It's better to search for ambients and tracks that are more lenient with their licenses. Lee Rosevere - All the Answers - Awkward Silences (B) - Baldachin - Betrayal - Compassion (keys version) - Delayed Reaction - Edge of the Woods (kind of too modern sounding in parts, but maybe you could find a use for it á la some of the old grungy-sounding ambient tunes in Thief) - Expectations - Everywhere (sounds like a calm but moody mansion ambient to me) - Gone - Her Unheard Story - It's A Mystery - Not Alone - Old Regrets - Reflections - Slow Lights - Snakes - Something To Fill The Space - Thoughtful (especially the first half to first two thirds, before the more electronic beat kicks in) - The Long Journey - The Nightmare - The Past - Time to Think - Under Suspicion (maybe the bit between 2:26 and 2:48 would be the best for a tension sting, the rest sounds a bit too modern spy-fi for the TDM setting) - What's in the Barrel ? - You're Enough (A) - Maarten Schellekens - A Bit of Discomfort - Daydream - Deliverance - Free Classical Theme (arguably more like for an SF film with classical music portrayed electronically, but not bad) Salakapakka Sound System - Aiti, joku tuijottaa meita metsasta - Holle - Kadonnut jalkia jattamatta - Privatomrode i Vasteros - Syttymissyy tuntematon 1 - Syttymissyy tuntematon 2 Sawako albums - 098 (ambient for background humming and buzzing, perhaps machinery, electricity, industrial ambience, etc.) - Billy Gomberg Remix - If You're Ther (odd city ambience, between moody music and city background ambience, mild background thumping) - Lisbon ambience (maybe usable as background ambience in some mission set at a more Mediterranean city) - Mizuame (Sawako Sun) (could work as ambience for a larger baths or spa hall, with the sound of water, and human voices occassionally heard in the background) - November 25, 2007 - Snowfall - Spring Thaw - Tim Prebble Remix - UNIVERSFIELD - A Beatiful Sky (this track would actually be good for a church or cathedral interior) - A Calm Soulful Atmosphere For A Documentary Film (calm but somewhat mysterious ambient, reminds me of some of the Dishonored ambients) - A Grim Horror Atmosphere - A Music Box With A Tense Atmosphere - Atmosphere for Documentaries (rather suspensful ambient with an undertone of woodwind instruments) - Background Horror Tension - Beautiful Relaxing Ambient (a calmer ambient that's good for a location with some degree of grandeur or one that provides relief to the player) - Blood-chillingly Creepy Atmospheres - Bloody - Cloaked in Mystery - Corpse Rot - Crime City - Dark Background - Deep Space Exploration (has a nice atmosphere of mystery and exploration) - Drifting in Harmony (calm but suspensful ambient) - Embrace of the Mist - Exoplanet (mysterious ambient, could work for various environments) - Exploring the Cursed Cemetery (short, fifteen second tension sting with piano) - Evening Meditation In The Open Air (could work for a number environments during evening hours) - Fading Memories - Gloomy Atmosphere for Documentaries - Gloomy Reverie - Grim Atmosphere - Horror Atmosphere (Version 2) - Horror Background Atmosphere 6 - Horror Background Atmosphere for Horror and Mystical - Horror Background Atmosphere for Scary Scenes - Horror Background Atmosphere for Suspensful Moments (1) - Horror Background Atmosphere for Suspensful Moments (2) - Horror Dark Atmosphere (Version 1) - Horror Music Box - Intergalactic Ambience (good calm theme of mystery and wonder) - In the Embrace of Darkness - Mars (suspensful ambient for a suspensful location, with a metallic undertone in its melody) - Meditation in Nature (aside from outdoor environments, could work in a number of other environments as well) - Melodies of Fear - Midnight Secrets - Mild Heaven (a calm ambient, maybe could work for night time city streets and city rooftops) - Moment of a Dream (suspensful theme, hopefully not too electronic in undertone) - Mysterious Passerby - Mystery Atmosphere - Mystery Horror - Mystery House - Mystical Dark Atmosphere - Nebula Soundscape (sounds like a good ambient for outdoor or cave environments or maybe even churches and city rooftops) - Ominous Criminal Atmosphere - Sad Emotional Piano for Documentary Films - Scary Dark Cinematic For Suspensful Moments - Scary Horror Atmosphere - Sinister Mystery - Sinister Piano Melodies (short, fifteen second tension sting with piano) - Siren's Call (I feel this one has more limited uses, though maybe it could work for suspense in an industrial environment) - Soothing Serenade (calm, soothing ambient, with a slight hint of mystery, could work for several types of environments) - Soothing Soundscapes (calm, soothing ambient, with a slight hint of mystery, could work for several types of environments) - Spooky Hallway - Suspense Atmosphere Background - Tense Dark Background - Tense Horror Atmosphere - Tense Horror Background Atmosphere - The Box of Nightmares - This Sunset (good for an evening or night time ambient, even includes subtle cricket chirping sounds) - Tropical Escapes (good for an outdoor environment with a waterfall, flowing stream or falling rain) Many of these tracks by UNIVERSFIELD are quite short, about a minute or slightly under a minute, but good as tension-building themes or as suspensful ambients. ---- Historical background music - lute and similar string instruments La Rossignol ("The Nightingale"} - a Renaissance era piece, anonymous composer. This one was written as an instrumental duet for two musicians. So, if you'd use this for a scene of AI characters playing their instruments, you should use two such characters for added believability. Here's what the composition sounds like when played as a duet on: - lute (obviously the most medieval/Renaissance instrumentation) - acoustic guitar (example 1) and acoustic guitar (example 2) - 11-string guitar what it sounds when played as a duet on an 11-string guitar - licensed album version (presumably lute) If you find any royalty-free version in good quality, let me know. Lachrimae ("Tears", sometimes known as "Seven Teares") by John Dowland - another Elizabethan era piece, by a 16th-17th century composer. Various reconstructions: - on lute (example solo performance at the Metropolitan Museum) - on lute, with vocal accompaniment (lutist and female soprano) - on lute, violas, and other (six musician ensemble performance) - on viola da gamba (five musician ensemble performance) Lachrimae Pavan ("Teary Pavane / Pavane of the Tears") by John Dowland - a variation on the previous composition, for the Renaissance pavane style dance. Various reconstructions: - on lute - on acoustic guitar (example 1), (example 2), (example 3) Again, I'd like to find a royalty-free version of these two compositions. Frog Galliard - one more by Dowland, for now. Another composition for a Renaissance dance style, the galliard. Reconstructions: - on lute (solo performance) - on lute, deeper sound (solo performance) - on acoustic guitar (example 1), (example 2), (example 3) Royalty-free version would be appreciated. Greensleeves - by an anonymous 16th century author, quite possibly a folk song of the era. Trust me, you know this one, even if you don't know the name. It's one of the most well-known bits of Renaissance secular and courtly music in the popular imagination. (Trust me, it's been referenced in everything. Even the first Stronghold game from the early 2000s had an in-game character sing a made-up ditty to the tune/melody of this song.) Reconstructions: - on lute (solo performance) - classical guitar (solo performance) - acoustic guitar (solo performance) I bet there's a royalty-free version of this one somewhere. I'll snoop around, and if you find one before I do, let me know. In taberna quando sumus ("When we are at the tavern") - anonymous period song from the 14th century, of Goliard origin. Written and sung entirely in Latin (so if you can explain Latin within the TDM setting or use only an instrumental version, go for it). An unabashed drinking song, you could use this for more rascally Builder priests/monks or for various commoners and lower-ranking noblemen while they're having a good time at the inn. A pretty well-known song even nowadays (though the most famous melody for it might be the more recent arrangement). Reconstructions: - example performance 1 - example performance 2 Again, an entirely royalty-free version of this one could come in handy. Historical background music - by Jon Sayles Jon Sayles is a musician who runs the Free Early and Renaissance Music website. His recordings are in .mp3 format (so you will need a conversion to .ogg) and Sayles has made them all freely available. The instrument he used for his musical reconstructions is the classical guitar. Some examples of Sayles' reconstructions of period music by anonymous or known authors: Saltarello, based on the late-medieval and Renaissance dance tune from Italy Madrigal by Anthony Holborne Al fonsina by Johannes Ghiselin Ich weiss nit by Ludwig Senfl So ys emprentid by John Bedyngham, mid-1400s Riu, riu, chiu, famous 15th century Spanish Christmas carol Fantasia, by Orlando Gibbons, late 16th and early 17th century Die Katzenpfote, German-speaking lands, anonymous author, 15th century A gre d'amors, 14th century, anonymous French author Nightengale (unrelated to La Rossignol), by Thomas Weelkes El Grillo, 15th to early 16th century composition by Josquin des Prez The Witches' Dance, by anonymous, Renaissance English composition Ma fin est mon comencement, by 14th century composer Guillame de Machaut In Nomine, late 15th and early 16th century composition by John Taverner Ricercare ("ricker-caré", nothing to do with rice or care), by Adrian Willaert Fantasia by Thomas Lupo, 16th-17th century English composer The Nite Watch, composed by Anthony Holborne - appropriate for TDM Plenty more where these came from... Historical background music - from the A-M Classical website This website offers plenty of freely available, royalty-free .mp3s of early and classical musical compositions and instrumental songs. The only thing you need to do is provide attribution, as everything on the site is via a Creative Commons license (this is noted on every page). Counting Christmas songs from the Middle Ages and Renaissance alone, I was able to download loads of them already years and years ago. Though they're far from epic recordings, if you're just looking for a competently done free version of these compositions, this is an excellent site. A few examples of medieval music from the A-M Classical site: Angelus ad Virginem (played quietly on organ), Diex soit en cheste maison by Adam de la Halle (organ and other instruments), Greensleeves (this is for a carol version of the lyrics, but the melody is the same as standard Greensleeves) Historical background music - by Vox Vulgaris The Swedish band/ensemble Vox Vulgaris aren't very active nowadays, but they did plenty of early music recording in the early-to-mid 2000s. From what I've read about their song releases, they're okay with others using the songs from their 2003 album and other material they've done. I don't know if their website is still around (there's an archived version) and whether you can still contact the band members, but if you'd like to be extra sure and ask, go ahead. I don't think they've changed their copyleft stance to their own works, but it pays off to be sure. So, here are some of VV's own takes on period music: Cantiga 166 - based on the eponymous song (full title "Cantiga 166 - Como póden per sas culpas (os homés seer contreitos)"), by Spanish composer Alphonso X from the 13th century (yes, king Alphonso X ! They didn't call him Alphonso the Learned for nothing). To provide you with a point of comparison, here, here and here are versions by other artists. (If I remember correctly, this particular VV song was also used by moonbo in his Requiem FM, as part of an inn's muffled background music. I did a real double-take when I played the mission for the first time and recognised it.) Cantiga 213 - based on the eponymous song (full title "Cantiga 213 - Quen sérve Santa María, a Sennor mui verdadeira"), again by Spanish composer, king Alphonso X from the 13th century. To provide you with a point of comparison, here and here are versions by other artists. Saltarello - based on the well-known melody for the Italian late-medieval Renaissance dance, the saltarello (also the saltarello trotto specifically in this case). To provide you a point of comparison, here and here are versions by other artists. La Suite Meurtrière - I can't quite source this one, it might be their own original composition, though "in the style of" some particular period music. Rókatánc (Fox Dance) - this is a really wild bit of period dance and festive music, possibly Hungarian-inspired, given the name. I think this would fit both a tavern environment or some public event for the nobility and patricians, including an armed sparring tournament or similar. Final note from me New suggestions are always welcome as I expand this thread. For any suggestions concerning Kevin MacLeod's royalty-free music, please use the other thread I've already made, purely for listing MacLeod's stuff.

I created discussion here and mentioned authors (maybe I missed someone though). Unlike the previous thread about main menu GUI overrides, I think the new one does not look aggressive . The main question there is why this was done, and how to adapt to avoid this problem now and in the future. Indeed, all the missions will be fixed by 2.13 even if some authors don't respond. Dev builds regularly break something, although usually it is done unintentionally. I added "known issues" point on the dev build, which happens pretty rarely. I apologize for the negative emotions this change has caused. Sometimes I am too rough in communications. Moreover, I am not a creative kind of person, I'm more a technical type of person. Thus I believe in interface boundaries, so in my mind the blame for breakage is always on the side that violates these boundaries. Anyway, I know I'll have to fix the breakage, probably myself if necessary.

Yeah, as I said elsewhere, it's not so much that the missions are broken that is frustrating to me and several other affected authors, it's that there was zero communication to the affected authors that this was going to be happening beforehand. There is no reason why a message couldn't have been sent to the affected authors saying "hey, this will be broken in the upcoming dev build for X reasons. I thought you'd like to know before surprising you." Or even an open discussion beforehand about why these authors decided to make these customizations to begin with. Plain and simple, that's just a lack of respect. If you have the time to break these, you have time to communicate and see if there might be a solution to avoid all this (and there is!). And perhaps from YOUR perspective, you might think this reaction seems silly, unnecessary, and that this is totally fine, but from my perspective and that of a few others, it's not. EDIT: In addition, when creating or modifying existing assets, I and others take great care in making sure that these changes don't break existing maps. And if they do, we do whatever we can to own up to that and fix it. I do expect that same level of respect to be shown to existing maps so they aren't just broken with reckless abandon and no clear path forward.

The training mission’s job is not cover the diversity of FMs across the entire platform. There are lots of stuff in volta universe missions which are not covered: explosive barrels, ammo crystals, loot you dislodge by shooting it with an arrow, completely different undead AI with a completely different damage model, etc Just like in northdale missions: neutral/hostile areas, in game shops, simplified lockpicks, etc Why would you need to be told any of this is happening by anything other than the game itself? That’s how games communicate: you play them.

So what is the training mission for then? Apparently it's not showing standard tdm gameplay necessarily. Edit: Maybe it's not really worth it to keep discussing this. I mean I don't want to derail too much what the topic is actually for.

I totally agree that players usually don't care whether some non-customizable constant like bow shoot time is same as in core or not, as long as the mission plays well. This is a problem only for TDM development. But I don't know a proper way of solving this: mappers usually want to customize something "right now", and waiting for new release is rarely an option. And often customizations are not implemented until someone really wants them (or right away uses them), so that's also the chicken-and-egg problem here.

If the change is small, it should especially be mentioned, because it's harder to notice, but obviously there is a change, because otherwise it was not implemented. I'm not saying it's necesary for everything, but this falls under standard gameplay behavior changes.