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With TDM 2.12, after the credits finished, the "Mission Complete" screen did not display. I found that the screen was black and I could hear my footsteps when I tried to move around. I think the reason for the mission not completing successfully was that the "Do not kill or harm allies" objective was never marked as "1 = STATE_COMPLETE" instead it was left as "0 = STATE_INCOMPLETE". Note, I didn't use noclip throughout the mission. Same as: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18054-fan-mission-the-accountant-2-new-in-town-by-goldwell-20160509/&do=findComment&comment=458491

How about using TDM automation framework (and maybe pcem/qemu)? More info see: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/19828-automation-features-and-discussion/

Since it's a one-off problem, only for the first ambient at game start, then the way you fixed it is really the right way, because the system-level alternative would be whole a little subsystem (a specialized fidelay and mandatory _z soundshader) just to handle the first 0.1 seconds of game start, and then the old system for all the maps already out there, which is a bit much. And I think it's not even that common because many ambients start quietly to begin with. That said, there might be an easy bit of code that could make sure the fade in always works for the first ambient that doesn't mess with anything else in the system, like a hardcoded initial 0.1 sec. delay only for it, and that may be worth doing. But it'd need experimenting and testing to make sure it works as intended and doesn't have unintended consequences. Anyway, it's good we have this documented for now as the way to fix the problem for other people in the future that run into it searching for a fix. In fact it'd be good to put in the wiki to make sure the fix doesn't get lost.

File Update for Improved Subtitle Font As requested a while ago, to address the stray marks and other problems seen with current subtitle font, Stone, I am providing a short-term fix for characters in the printable ASCII range 32-126, using corrected metadata: fontimage_24.dat This is intended to replace tdm_fonts01.pk4\fonts\english\stone\fontimage_24.dat No change is needed in the related .dds files for this. Briefly, problems with stray marks found to the left of a character were due to picking up pixels from an adjoining character in the glyph bitmap dds files. Adjusting the location of the source box and related metrics fixed these. Affected were: % C E T W Y | The | character also got improved spacing, as did J Finally, the entirely screwed data for the angle brackets was corrected. This coming month I hope to work up a wiki page with diagrams to better explain what I learned about the mysteries of the idTech4 font .dat and .dds files. To see what the results look like with corrected fontimage_24.dat in place (as an override), here is my testing FM: testSubtitlesASCII.pk4 A longer-term fix (beyond 2.12 release) would also address ANSI and TDM-specific-mapped charaters in the range 128-255. To look at that, I have a similar experimental tester for ANSI (unripe to release). It shows substantial issues in that range. And then there's also consideration of fontimage_12.dat and fontimage_48.dat. And the russian-character variant.

I added the console commands teleport, getwiewpos and setviewpos to the Console Useful Controls page on the wiki.

Just want to mention some locations that are hosting our data, as examples. Like our game(-sourcecode) can be installed from opensuse official game repo. And darkradiant from a ubuntu repo. We got the game(and assets) on moddb. I tried to get tdm installer / binary on several app repo's, but others succeeded. And We all tried to get tdm (game & assets) on steam and Gog. But got it my old installer-frontend on tdm's download page and a package on playonlinux (tdm windows on wine). And my written tdm-wiki article about installing tdm on several os'ses. https://software.opensuse.org/package/thedarkmod?locale=si Official game Repo listing: https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Games Opensuse Build service: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/games/thedarkmod Darkradiant on ubuntu https://packages.debian.org/sid/darkradiant Tdm wiki article: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Installer_and_Manual_Installation

Related to looking into the stray marks associated with Stone font characters... I've noticed that the nominal 12 pt DDS (which as discussed above only kicks in under 8 pt) has only ASCII glyphs... nothing with code points above 127. Maybe that's why the corresponding 12 pt DAT file was not distributed, as a workaround to force the engine to use 24pt instead, because tels never got around to finishing the low-priority aspects of the project. The 24 pt DDS does have the ANSI glyphs. At a glance, most are fine; a few are a bit ragged. I didn't check compliance and completeness with TDM's character map as given on the wiki. I don't feel ANSI improvement is a 2.12 item. I've got a test FM to show all the characters. At some point, after refinement, I'll post a link.

Fiver, there are many ways you can contribute. Several ways are described on the forum and wiki. You pointed us to some locations in missions. Please read the forum posts & the wiki, watch some youtube editor tutorials, download and use the mission files & darkradiant to try fix/change the things you mentioned. For starters, And https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=DarkRadiant

Ah I didn't read this part (in bold): I think I'm going to change the text there. It's not very clear. Edit: I changed it so it's more clear: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Console_Useful_Controls#Spawning_entities

Btw. the wiki says: Should this be: ?

Personally I can see some ancillary benefits from trying to move TDM from non-commercial-libre to true-libre, beyond getting off the FOSS community's naughty list. There are a fair few indie devs who have tried to make modernized Thief-likes. None of them have done half as good a job as this community. I think that is generally down to the engine. All the detection and movement systems take a lot of time to implement, which you guys have already paid down. Imagine if those indie devs had the option to use TDM as the base for their games. More of these games would be published, and more would be successful. And this in turn would grow the public knowledge base about working in Dark Radiant and TDM. Some of those devs might make their own public FMs. Some might contribute to the wiki and documentation. Some might contribute to project maintenance or even donate new features that they develop. Personally I would call this one of the bigger things that you could do to keep the project alive. It would definitely be a big project to bring the project assets into compliance or to fork off a compliant TDM-lite. A year ago I would have said it is impossible, but AI is changing things. It can make art and it can write code, and especially when it has a working example of the thing it is recreating to learn from. It still would not be easy, but at least possible. Let this be a lesson for creators to select your licensing carefully. It is not always easy to change after the fact.

To cater to both audiences. I mentioned LibreGameWiki as one example. nbohr1more mentioned other uses. Explicitly allowing reuse and spread will help TDM reach a wider audience and would hopefully attract more volunteers. More volunteers which can help improve both TDM versions. There are several benefits for a project of being in the Debian repo. One is that TDM Debian-users can report defects on any package directly to Debian (no need to register on separate forums). Debian may then fix the issue themselves (in their "TDM-libre" package) and will offer the patch upstream to TDM, who can then choose to accept or reject the patch. I envision "TDM-libre" to have the same capability of downloading any mission as regular TDM. The only difference is that "TDM-libre" would come packaged with the regular engine (which is GPL+BSD) and an included mission that has libre media/gamedata. When I play TDM by myself, I want the unlimited-play and can accept commercial restrictions. But if I were to promote it somewhere, or charge for a stream when playing online, or make a video, I would want a version without commercial restrictions (and can temporarily accept limited-play) to make sure I don't violate anyone's copyright. Perhaps. That's what I'm trying to find out.

As much as I'm a big fan of FOSS, it gets messy when it involves assets with a whole mix of licenses. The engine? Sure that'll work, but TDM is useless with just the engine. Even if you have a separate libre version with verified assets, you've now split the project into a full version and a libre-only version and for what? Some entry in a niche wiki and the Debian repo? Once people want actual full missions to play you begin to drift away from the restricted licenses imposed on the libre version and have to code and accommodate for that. If TDM was developed with the day-one intention of only allowed libre licensed assets then there'd be no problem, but it hasn't and what your asking is probably too much work and effort for little benefit.

I suggest you use the term "I", to make clear that it is something YOU want, and that you speak for yourself. But, as wesp5 mentioned, I don't really know what this is about, at all. And, I'm also wondering about all the newly registered people lately, who just arrived at this forum, and already want to revolutionize this mod. This is a thing I noticed 2 or 3 years ago, and which hasn't been present in the 15 years I play this mod and frequent these forums now. Really seems like a common thing these days, to not knock on the door, but kick it in, and stomp right in.

When talking about a possible libre version of TDM (https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22346-libre-version-of-tdm/) it seems we believe all media/gamedata included in TDM is licensed CC-BY-NC-SA. I am not familiar with how the process of adding new media/gamedata works today; I have seen files uploaded to the bugtracker which developers then commit to SVN, but I don't know if there are other ways. It may be a good idea to implement a process that when new components (media/gamedata included in TDM) are added, the contributor is asked to be explicit about the license (a choice which may defaults to their previous preference, for usability). It won't fix the past, but it may help in the future. This will make it easy for contributors to add future data under a more permissive license if they choose. Libre media can be added and its license can be tracked, rather than assumed to be CC-BY-NC-SA. I suggest looking at how Wikimedia Commons has implemented this: the contributor state the source and license at the time the data is uploaded. This can be done either by providing urls or by saying "It's my work and I choose this licsense". The first step could be to add a way to keep track of each filepath in SVN, author, license, sources. Start by setting the value for each file's license to "(default/legacy CC-BY-NC-SA)". Possible implementations for a user interface for new additions are: * Use our own wiki, which runs Mediawiki (same as Wikimedia Commons). I see several benefits of this, but we also need a way to accept uploads of batches, not just single files. * Look at how other open source projects have solved this. There may be more appropriate solutions available. ... but I'll leave the implementation open. Suggestions are very welcome! If the author of each file already in SVN can be tracked, then it may be possible that the author is willing to give a blanket permission for all their past files in one statement, and all their files in SVN can be updated in one commit. A productive contributor willing to release some of their work under a more permissive license could make a big change. If Dark Radiant would support letting mappers search media/gamedata by license (does it already?), it would make it easier for mappers to create a completely libre mission, which would help facilitate a TDM-libre release. If I understand things correctly. This post does not address all details and it may contain misunderstandings or assumptions, but it's a start. Also relevant: * Is there a compiled and maintained list of recommended or deprecated resources for mappers to use? * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/20311-external-art-assets-licensing/

In that case, separating libre components from non-libre components does not seem possible, and like you say we may then have to assume it is CC-BY-NC-SA. That is something we may want to address, but I'll start a new topic for that. According to the TDM license (https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/LICENSE.txt), both GPL and BSD "3-clause license" apply for the source code: * The portions base on Doom 3 (1999-2011) is GPL * The portions by Broken Glass Studios / The Dark Mod Team (2005-2011) "were"(?) distributed under "revised BSD license". According to the Debian Free Software Guidelines (https://www.debian.org/legal/licenses/): * Both GPL and "modified BSD License" are accepted into the Debian "main" repository * "Non-Commercial License" (it sounds likely CC-BY-NC-SA falls into this category) is accepted into the Debian "non-free" repository ("revised BSD license" and "modified BSD License" are different names for the BSD "3-clause license", see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD_licenses)

I suggest following CMOS in this case. That sorting style would also be easy to implement on the web page, on the wiki, and anywhere else too. One detail may remain, though: How do we list a title like "The Lieutenant 1: In Plain Sight"? * "Lieutenant 1, The: In Plain Sight", or * "Lieutenant 1: In Plain Sight, The" I'm pretty sure the first alternative is better because it connects the title to the word it modifies.

Yes, the description is somewhat unclear. When it says "The in-game downloader might show something different than the main menu.", I don't perceive that as a problem. Sorting a list by titles (articles last) is one thing; presenting the full title (with article first) is another. And they serve two different purposes: * When presenting the title in a list along with other titles by other authors, I would want to put more emphasis on functionality, usability and the overall presentation of the list as a whole. It is in everybody's interest that the list is functional and neat. * When presenting the title by itself, I would want to put more emphasis on the author's wishes. I think the web page and the list on the wiki should follow CMOS too, for the same reasons. By the way: the web page (https://www.thedarkmod.com/missions/) has a column "Type" which has values "S" or "C" but it does not explain the difference. Does anyone know?

If you disable VL by spawnarg, I believe they act like normal lights. Pretty sure you could use lod_bias args so that moonray patches show at low and lowest detail settings while VL would render at normal to highest. https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=LOD_Bias Still, VL performance hit is pretty low in 2.11 and newer.

TDM has tons of textures from "free" texture resources that do not allow redistribution and cannot be incorporated into a commercial project. Someone would need to create a huge replacement pack of textures that do not break the look of existing missions and do not infringe on the copyrighted textures. Also, many artists who contributed to this project do not want 3rd party entities to use their work in commercial projects. They intended the models, textures, sounds, animations to be exclusively used for Darkmod content. You would either have to replace ALL assets or contact every contributor and ask them to re-license their assets. Many contributors are no longer active with the project and haven't visited the forums in years so it would be no easy feat. I cannot speak to Debian policy but I think that they treat installers that add non-free content the same as non-free content itself. One could argue that Steam is such an installer but I guess Debian would counter that there are a few fully Libre games on Steam. I think Debian, Ubuntu, or Linux Mint need to consider a repo that allows for games (etc) that include non-libre content but intentionally offer this content for free to the community with no stipulations other than "don't try to sell it as a product".

This post differentiates between "gratis" ("at no monetary cost") and "libre" ("with little or no restriction") per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gratis_versus_libre * A libre version of TDM could: ** Qualify TDM for an article on the LibreGameWiki *** TDM is currently listed as rejected https://libregamewiki.org/Libregamewiki:Rejected_games_list because "Media is non-commercial (under CC-BY-NC-SA 3.0). The engine is free though (modified Doom 3) (2013-10-19)" ** Qualify for software repositories like Debian *** TDM is currently listed as unsuitable https://wiki.debian.org/Games/Unsuitable#The_Dark_Mod because 1) "The gamedata is very large (2.3 GB)", and 2) "The license of the gamedata (otherwise it must go into non-free with the engine into contrib)" and links to https://svn.thedarkmod.com/publicsvn/darkmod_src/trunk/LICENSE.txt Questions: 1) tdm_installer.linux64 is 4.2 MB (unzipped), which is far from the 2.3 GB which is said to be too large. Yes, the user can use it to download data that is non-libre, but so can any web browser too. If the installer itself is completely libre, does anyone know the reason why it cannot be accepted into the Debian repository? 2) If adding the installer to the repository is not a viable solution, would it be possible to package the engine with a small and beginner friendly mission built only from libre media/gamedata into a "TDM-libre" release, and add user friendly functionality to download the 2.3 GB media/gamedata using "TDM-libre" (similar to mission downloading)? 3) Would such a "TDM-libre" release be acceptable for the Debian repository? 4) Would such a "TDM-libre" release be acceptable for LibreGameWiki? 5) Would the work be worth it? * Pros: Exposure in channels covering libre software (e.g. the LibreGameWiki). Distribution in channels allowing only libre software (e.g. the Debian repository). * Cons: The work required for the modifictions and release of "TDM-libre". Possible maintenance of "TDM-libre". I'm thinking that the wider reach may attract more volunteers to work on TDM, which may eventually make up for this work and hopefully be net positive. 6) Are there any TDM missions that are libre already today? If not, would anyone be willing to work on one to fulfill this? I'll contribute in any way I can. 7) I found the following related topics on the forum: * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16226-graphical-installers-for-tdm/ (installing only the updater) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/16640-problems-i-had-with-tdm-installation-on-linux-w-solutions/ (problems with installation on Linux) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/17743-building-tdm-on-debian-8-steamos-tdm-203/ (Building TDM on Debian 8 / SteamOS) * https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18592-debian-packaging/ (Dark Radiant) ... but if there are other related previous discussions, I'd appreciate any links to them. Any thoughts or comments?

The gamepad implementation allows for a great degree of flexibility to personalize settings, aside from a few minor issues that I mentioned here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22337-gamepad-bindings/ I would say that playing TDM with a gamepad works very well, especially considering that it was implemented as experimental and hasn't been changed since then. If I could, I'd go back to 2021-you and congratulate you on buying that gamepad. I notice that your DarkmodPadbinds.cfg looks very different from mine...

It seems like more and more "thief" and "thief players" is becoming a short hand to dismiss community members earnest desire to improve the game - which happens to be a barely legally distinct "thief style" game which was made by thief fans for thief fans and is "designed to simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief". Who is the predominant player base of the game supposed to be beyond fans of the thief games? Is there some better avenue to find feedback for the game beyond this forum? FOSS and linux forums? I have seen maybe half a dozen posts from that segment. I am a thief fan, I play thief fms, my association with those games is what drives me to play and make things for this game. Are we supposed to pretend the original games are not a huge reason why most of us are here at all? TL;DR version:

In a few lists, TDM missions are presented sorted (or sortable) alphabetically: * In the mission downloader GUI * On the web page: https://www.thedarkmod.com/missions/ * On the wiki: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Fan_Missions_for_The_Dark_Mod The Chicago Manual of Style (CMOS) recommends placing initial articles (The, A, An) at the end of the full title: "A Tale of Two Cities" would appear as "Tale of Two Cities, A". Titles do not include subtitles unless they are essential for identification. If a subtitle is included, the initial article should be placed at the end of the full title, not before the subtitle. (https://style.mla.org/articles-and-alphabetization/) I mentioned this in "0006339: Polishing menus: mission downloader" (https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6339), but I suggest following CMOS in all cases where titles are an entry in a list.