Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums
Sign in to follow this  
peter_spy

Copypasting vs. GPL/CC 3.0 reuse or adapt – your thoughts

Recommended Posts

If someone releases a mission for TDM, we can safely assume that they want people to play it. If we make an update that breaks the map, so that it is no longer playable, we're actually interfering with the mapper's original intention.

 

Abusimplea silly reaction aside, I linked to that post to stress that author may be perfectly fine with design issues or smaller not game-breaking bugs, and it's not up to anyone to fix that. But I agree that there should be some way to have game-breaking bugs fixed, if they're introduced by subsequent versions.

 

IMO it's also worth noting that the maximum engine compatibility with everything released ever is an impossible goal. It can actually hold back the engine development, if you want to make e.g. some better assets or rewrite shading. It might be better to have an archive of "milestone versions" or just versions before major changes. Like, IMO 2.05 was the most complete package for certain era (hard stencil shadows), and it could be available as optional download for legacy missions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since the mod was released in 2009, we've only had one "compulsive mapper" who does this. Let's guard against any concept creep that might suggest that this is a wide-spread problem. The vast majority of mappers in the community have the ability to see and avoid obvious breeches of common courtesy.

Why not fix the problem for the general case when you have the chance. It never hurts to implement some drama prevention in a community full of artists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why not fix the problem for the general case when you have the chance.

 

 

I thought that's what we were doing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course it could be worthwhile to point new mappers to some basic rules common among the community, but all this licence and encryption discussions makes me sad. Do we really need all of that to avoid that one person might cause us some headaches in the future?

 

Avoiding headaches in future is exactly the point of having clearly-defined license conditions. The intention is not to sue people, but to make it less likely that people will end up getting sued (or threatening to sue each other) because of misunderstandings and poor communication.

 

If people don't know what they are and are not allowed to do, then we are just relying on people's personal opinions and guesswork, which in some case will lead to conflicts when people don't interpret things in the same way. Relying on "common sense" might seem like a nice easy option, but in reality there is no such thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
all this licence and encryption discussions makes me sad. Do we really need all of that to avoid that one person might cause us some headaches in the future?

 

 

I don't like it either, but what other options do we have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regardless of this licensing discussion, we should go forward and pin that "Editor's Code" to the forum so that this is sorted at least. Springheel, would you mind compiling your list once again with the feedback from this thread and posting it in a new pinned thread for people to sign/ackknowledge?

 

I could also do it, but your writing always sounds better than mine... ^^

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Avoiding headaches in future is exactly the point of having clearly-defined license conditions. The intention is not to sue people, but to make it less likely that people will end up getting sued (or threatening to sue each other) because of misunderstandings and poor communication.

 

If people don't know what they are and are not allowed to do, then we are just relying on people's personal opinions and guesswork, which in some case will lead to conflicts when people don't interpret things in the same way. Relying on "common sense" might seem like a nice easy option, but in reality there is no such thing.

I agree with you that it is a good idea to avoid misunderstandings by making up clear rules (that's what I've meant by basic rules). However, I think it is worthwhile to point out that the vast majority of the members have never done anything they are not allowed to do (in opposition to the impression that may arose by reading this thread). And even if we make up clear rules, you can't really hinder anyone from breaking them.


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I don't like it either, but what other options do we have?

I'm glad to hear that you don't like this path either. As for other options, how about doing what Obsttorte is suggesting. It seems like a very sensible approach to not only this current predicament but it also addresses future concerns.

 

Once you go down that other path there is no turning back but I think you already know that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

.. even if we make up clear rules, you can't really hinder anyone from breaking them.

 

No, but you can censure their asses to the ground, and have an easily linkable and justified reason for doing so. It's sorta almost the same thing with a law IRL. Making a law that says murder is illegal doesn't stop people killing each other. It does give you a pretty solid justification for locking the murderer up for x years, because there's a law against murder, and they broke it.


Intel Sandy Bridge i7 2600K @ 3.4ghz stock clocks
8gb Kingston 1600mhz CL8 XMP RAM stock frequency
Sapphire Radeon HD7870 2GB FLeX GHz Edition @ stock @ 1920x1080

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm glad to hear that you don't like this path either.

 

 

The reason I don't like it is because we're essentially making warning labels telling people not to eat Tide Pods. I think it insults the intelligence of the average person. Not only that, but as soon as you try to lock down hard and fast rules, you inevitably create loopholes, grey areas, and unintended consequences. So I'm not thrilled to be having these discussions.

 

On the other hand, the reason we're here is because we have a mapper who continually eats Tide Pods, and the ensuing drama regularly spews up into the forums. It has done, and continues to do, significant harm to the community, and it needs to be stopped. Will codified rules and consequences stop it? I have no idea. All I know is that we seem to be stuck in a pattern over the last three years: 1. Mapper commits an easily avoidable offense, 2. Mapper doubles down when it is reported. 3. Drama ensues. 4. Mapper deletes profile picture and/or ragequits. 5. Mapper slips back in when things quiet down. 6. Repeat.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The reason I don't like it is because we're essentially making warning labels telling people not to eat Tide Pods. I think it insults the intelligence of the average person. Not only that, but as soon as you try to lock down hard and fast rules, you inevitably create loopholes, grey areas, and unintended consequences. So I'm not thrilled to be having these discussions.

I totally agree with you.

 

You're saying that you don't like the harm that this individual has done to this community. That's completely understandable but why then are you pursuing a path that will penalize this entire community for just one offender? These extreme measures seem unnecessary and overreaching for this one particular issue.

 

With respect, I think you may have lost some of your objectivity over this matter. We are just talking about one person here. I think you're throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
These extreme measures seem unnecessary and overreaching for this one particular issue.

 

Nope.

 

We're here is because we have a mapper who continually eats Tide Pods, and the ensuing drama regularly spews up into the forums.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This behaviour is not fucking acceptable, period. What the fuck.

  • Like 1

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
when I found out about it and saw what he had done with my mission I was monumentally pissed.

 

 

Oh for fuck's sake. How many more times does this have to happen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, what a wonderful start into the new year...

 

I guess, we have to do something now, as this keeps happening over and over again. I propose we instantiate the following rule:
"Whenever you want to start working on somebodyelse's map or reuse any content created by others, make a public announcement about your intentions and cite any relevant previous communication with other parties regarding this case. The announcement may happen in your own mapping thread or a new dedicated thread, but it should be visible to everybody."

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess, we have to do something now, as this keeps happening over and over again.

 

 

The admins have discussed the issue and decided, with some regret, that there have been too many complaints about Bikerdude, too many mappers angry at him for inappropriate behaviour, to allow this to continue. Bikerdude has asked us to ban him on multiple occasions, and today we have agreed to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it's a real shame it had to come to this. :-(

 

Anyway, regardless of this, we should still write up this "TDM Editors Code" and pin it, in an effort to avoid situations like this in the future.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:|


Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...