Dark Mod Pre-Beta Download links and discussion.

[Diss]

640x480 is quite a bit of a low resolution and I don't think we can do anything for this as the menu is rendered by doom. (You antialiasing might also effect it)

Hmm, all I can say that all the fonts in doom were quite well readable when I played it in 640x480, so I guess it's a matter of the font style. Of course, the doom font wasn't very stylish, so I guess your font is harder to render...

 

I guess this is because the background itself is also quite bright?

No :-) I always play Thief (and thus TDM) extremely dark. I will try to make a scr

eenshot, maybe that's also because of the low resolution

.

 

Healing potiens and flash bombs are not really done yet

Yes, that was just a "keep in mind for later" request...

 

No, as there is no support for different "quality settings" yet. All textures come only in one size and we use pre-compressed textures to keep the size small.

Ah, ok, I just misunderstod that.

 

Also, please note that TDM is not Thief. It is not even planned to be "exactly like Thief". It will be different. And we hope it will be better

I know :-) But you cannot prevent people like me feeling like they were back in a real sequel to Thief 2. TDM is ways better than Thief 3 already (and if it was just for the rope arrows, water etc.), and I've already seen features that are better than in T1/T2 (apart from the graphics, which are of course better). So whatever comes out of it, I will like

 it :-) 

[Diss]

Actually, both of them are working just fine (they may need some slight graphic and sound tweaks, but nothing major). It's something we've talked about doing--to be able to bind keys to specific inventory items--but I don't know if that's going to be done or not (time issues, don't ya know).

Would be a great feature! When you try to cycle through your inventories searching for the healing potion while the arrows hit you, you can bet that you either don't find it or run against a closed door while looking for it

[Komag]

I vastly prefer no bow sight, since 99% of medieval/fantasy bows don't have a sight, it's a very modern accoutrement. Without a sight you have to learn how to aim well, and I feel it really adds something to the experience, you get to feel like you are actually better at shooting the bow after some practice.

 

We'll definitely want to have some sort of archery range training mission or part of a mission.

[Gildoran]

- chosing keys for items would be a nice feature. I used to have healing potions and flash bombs on specific keys, because that's what you might need without delay when running from the guards.

That's already implemented, but the demo's key-binding menu is incomplete (it only lists bindings for the lantern, compass, etc). Surely the finished version of TDM will show bindings for all standard equipment.

 

However, if the demo's omission of a hotkey drives you bonkers, you can manually bind it via your config file or the console. The relevant lines of thiefs_den/doomconfig.cfg are:

bind "k" "inventory_hotkey Compass"
bind "l" "inventory_use Lantern"
bind "BACKSPACE" "inventory_hotkey"

inventory_hotkey selects an item without using it, and inventory_use uses an item without selecting it. Almost any item should be selectable/usable in that fashion. For example, if you want to be able to use the spyglass by pressing z, just add this to your config file:

bind "z" "inventory_use Spyglass"

[Ishtvan]

Our official stance on the bow sight is that it won't be included by us, (and frankly, isn't needed...once the "lobbing" issue is fixed and you get used to aiming without it, you'll have no problems).

What's the lobbing issue? The vertical zeroing when using the tip of the arrow to aim?

[SneaksieDave]

That's the unnecessary complication where the arrow coming out from the box doesn't go straight out, as it would when an archer has their hands properly anchored and aligned, but actually goes upward a little bit, as if the archer didn't have their hands properly anchored and aligned. So, in addition to the player aiming the bow as an archer would do, the arrow is doing its own little 'extra' aiming. Upward.

 

But I don't want to sound biased.

[Slash]

as of rate now i am downloading the files. and installing my Doom3. im very excited about this and i cant wait to toss my thoughts around with all you guys about this new thief style game! haveing it in the playable state makes me very pleased!

[Crispy]

My only minor niggle right now is that it doesn't seem to use the full graphical capability of the D3 engine, especially not shadow wise.... Its all rather grey like a higher-poly TUT - but im going to chalk that down to the map composition and the way its ambience is compiled over anything else... Maps with similar dark shadows to D3 Itself would be really sexy looking.

This amuses me, because some (misguided) people were claiming at one point that TDM would never work as a Doom 3 mod since the shadows would all be pitch black.

 

There is ambience in the level, so nothing is pitch black, but it shouldn't look grey or washed out either. Try tweaking your gamma and brightness settings.

[The Pope]

I'm impressed - the mod is already dripping with atmosphere. However, I would say the gamma should default to 1.0 rather than 1.5, as the current setting makes it very hard to tell where you can hide, as well as wrecking the look of the map. Also, I have to agree with the complaints about a cumbersome interface.

 

Btw I'm running it fine on steam.

[Komag]

Another Steam user working just fine, that's good news.

[Crispy]

I'm impressed - the mod is already dripping with atmosphere. However, I would say the gamma should default to 1.0 rather than 1.5, as the current setting makes it very hard to tell where you can hide, as well as wrecking the look of the map.

It's impossible to pick a gamma setting that works for every monitor; if it was possible, then we wouldn't need such a setting at all. So it's hard to know what it should be set to by default. Probably we should make first-time installations go through a gamma tweaking process before any mission is started. (I think at least one of the Thief games did something similar - was it Thief 3?)

[Diss]

bind "k" "inventory_hotkey Compass"<BR> bind "l" "inventory_use Lantern"<BR> bind "BACKSPACE" "inventory_hotkey"

Cool! Thanks a lot for explaining!  The difference between selecting and using is definitely a feature superior to Thief! Edited January 22, 2008 by Diss

[The Pope]

It's impossible to pick a gamma setting that works for every monitor; if it was possible, then we wouldn't need such a setting at all. So it's hard to know what it should be set to by default. Probably we should make first-time installations go through a gamma tweaking process before any mission is started. (I think at least one of the Thief games did something similar - was it Thief 3?)

 

I'd say to err on the side of being too dark rather than too bright. This is the dark mod for doom 3, after all. I thought it was worth mentioning as it really did look awful for me on the default setting.

[Diego]

Probably we should make first-time installations go through a gamma tweaking process before any mission is started. (I think at least one of the Thief games did something similar - was it Thief 3?)

 

yep, thief 3 and that was a nice feature! it showed a scene with garrett hiding in the shadows so you can tweak the gamma until you don't see him.

[greebo]

Healing potiens and flash bombs are not really done yet

Healing potions and flash bombs along with flash mines and explosive mines are already working. I should know, because I put them in.

 

They are just missing in the demo, because the Thief's Den map didn't make use of them.

[Crispy]

I'd say to err on the side of being too dark rather than too bright. This is the dark mod for doom 3, after all. I thought it was worth mentioning as it really did look awful for me on the default setting.

But then we'd have people saying "the Doom 3 engine isn't capable of displaying anything but pitch-black shadows, therefore neither is TDM".

 

No need to worry. We'll sort something out.

[Diss]

Oh my god!

 

 

"It's a game, not a flashlight simulator."

 

 

Does the author of this sentence remember it? And now see what has come out of it! It was so much fun to read that ttlg thread that was linked from the interview. Here for those who don't know what I'm talking about!

[mangrove]

I wonder what the visual effect of having a faint light attached to the player, like the lantern, only non shadow casting and a lot darker, would be like? You ever try this?

[SneaksieDave]

I think they did something like that in Penumbra. Made it so you could see better, close up, without it being obviously a light.

[mangrove]

Yeah, you could be right there. Would have to fire it up again to be sure, though. Great game btw

[sparhawk]

Does the author of this sentence remember it? And now see what has come out of it! It was so much fun to read that ttlg thread that was linked from the interview. Here for those who don't know what I'm talking about!

 

Quite funny to re-read this thread and how naive the poeple were.

 

Fingernail:

"Just some coding and a lot of mapping"

 

Renzatic:

"Get a functional lightgem ... it's relative easy to do"

 

And best of all I always love New Horizon's quote:

"I would play it, but I can't help you." Considering that NH is really a cornerstone of TDM.

 

Or Springheel:

"This is (or will be) a fan-created mod, not a professional endeavour."

 

Ah! those were the times. I still remember reading those thread back then, and laughing my ass of, because of all the naivity floating around. At that I wouldn't have thought that we reach the day where we are now.

[mangrove]

Just slapped penumbra on. When you're walking around there is a general low ambient light. But when you go into stealth mode, there's a small ambient light that follows you. Quite effective. Maybe this is something you could have kick in when the lightgem reaches zilch?

[Tels]

I know :-) But you cannot prevent people like me feeling like they were back in a real sequel to Thief 2. TDM is ways better than Thief 3 already (and if it was just for the rope arrows, water etc.), and I've already seen features that are better than in T1/T2 (apart from the graphics, which are of course better). So whatever comes out of it, I will like it :-)

 

[Vadrosaul]

Almost forgot about the spyglass. That was a nice touch, grats to whoever thought of it. Ever consider having it made with folding retractable sections?

[Mr Retarded]

Just played through the map for a second time, this time looking more at the mod than the level. Just a quick inquirey: As is at the moment, if you're close to a door and it opens it pushes the player around. Is that going to stay the same or will it be changed so they're like Thief where the door stops if you're in the way, or like Half Life where the doors swing straight through you?

 

I'd personally prefer to have it as it either stops if it hits you, or it goes straight through you. Having the door physically push the player around is annoying and moving out of the way while opening a door is something I'd do without thinking, so I'd prefer not to have to think about it while playing a game.

 

Another slight irk of mine is the 'weight' of the boxes and the chair and the lagging behind while moving it. I'm guessing the weights of things are set by the mappers, so it could be changed, but there was something off about how quickly I could turn, while the box would just drop behind me. Would it be possible to up the 'grip' on the object? It seems odd that I can hold it a good few feet away from my body, yet when I turn around I have to drop it. If the grip was a bit stronger, then I wouldn't mind waiting while it swung around to be in the correct "holding" position.

 

Or perhaps if the turning speed was slowed down at the extremeties? So you could turn at normal speed while the object was still in sight, but when you turned further, your turn speed would be capped at the movement speed of the object. Does that make sense? Probably not. I'll leave it to you guys.

 

All that said, I'm pretty certain I remember a thread here where you were discussing how boxes and carryables should work, and there was no simple solution, so if you don't change it I guess I'll get used to it.

 

Other than that, it's incredibly impressive. Congratulations to everyone who's had a hand in it and good luck. I look forward to playing some FMs and having a go at mapping again when it's released proper.