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Sotha

US presidential election

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I don't think most Americans understand Objectivism that well, but of course there's a lot of respect for success and great leaders and individualism and capitalism. I think it's a lot closer to R.W. Emerson's versions of those things than Ayn Rand though. I mean Emerson is the heart & soul of American thinking and for as much as Rand loves American values, she's still something kind of foreign and alien to it IMO.

You're right.

Objectivism was literally a *very* personal construction against the socialist ideas interpretation of Ayn Rand with that interpretation due to her personal life events. This is why it is kind of "alien" for the average american guy and why the polar opposites of Rand (like me :D ) "resonate" with it.

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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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Just a few keystrokes away are 30,000+ emails that demonstrate how HRC and those she surrounds herself with conduct themselves. But we're over here talking about language, mannerisms, and boasts of sexual conquest.

 

 

Straw-manning won't accomplish anything. I don't think anyone here has been making the point that Trump is unsuitable due to his language or mannerisms.

 

So what exactly do you think these emails demonstrate about Clinton, beyond the fact that having them on a personal server was negligent?

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Well, to know that Huma had access to classified materials...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRu3U-nwyhw

 

It's a bunch of interesting facts. People can call it a conspiracy theory all they

want. This is all too close for comfort.

 

Especially since Wikileaks revealed that Clinton knew the "governments" of Saudi Arabia and Qatar

both funded terrorists and she sold them weapons despite this fore-knowledge...


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Here's the counterargument on the emails issue.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/4/13500018/clinton-email-scandal-bullshit

 

The private server is a red herring as there's really not a legal or ethical difference between the emails being on a Google server in OR or a private server in NY. We're really talking about using private email/device for non classified emails (like Powell also did) into which sensitive info has a risk of entering.

 

So Clinton was asked to turn over official emails and did so, claiming the other 30k were non-official or junk mail. That's an empirical question, but it doesn't really grok--except for conspiracy mongers--why she would go to all the effort to turn over other requested emails & leave some out. It only hurts her case, and it's not like it could be hidden. Her correspondants still have copies and if anything passed that showed her in bad faith it'd be damning. It's easier to believe she turned over what she thought she was supposed to in good faith with the law and did what everyone on the planet does & trash the junk.

 

The only thing that matters is there was no finding of bad faith or intent to harm US interests for criminal responsibility or even criminal neglegence. Just vanilla neglect.

 

This is aside from the rule being outdated and dumb which requires even non classified work emails to use special devices. Tell me you've never used your phone to tell your office you're coming in late or the like.

 

Edit. For the record, if emails emerge where she was criminally negligent in letting classified info out that could legit hurt US interest or lives then that's a real issue. But that's not this, not with what they know now.

 

As for merely embarassing emails of her hardball politics, those are already getting out via wikileaks, and if people want to not vote for her based on them that's legit IMO, although I'm fine with most non-illegal hardball politics as part of the game.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Is one of those places the Muslim sweetshop (it wasn't a sweetshop, it was for money laundering) in London UK, because that's been shutdown and everyone who had anything to do with it is either dead or behind bars. she might not know anything, Muslim women are considered non entities, they don't exist as a person, they are considered as objects.

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And you base that claim on what, exactly?

 

 

As an outsider I see Trudeau as something of a showboat personality with all the grand gestures, but I don't think he's insincere and he has a charismatic schtick just like Bill Clinton & Tony Blair in his prime had, and I guess Obama. I haven't followed him closely enough to have any real opinion though.

 

He's a showboat for an ideology that hasn't really attracted too many until now.

This lends him a certain ridiculousness that I don't think either of our candidates will be able to match, policies aside.

 

1%2B1%2B1ninetymilesjcl3D1tf7wfuo1_540.j

 

This is a fake quote, and people were able to believe it because he is just that young and confident in himself, something rarely seen this high up in politics on this end of the spectrum currently.

Edited by V-Man339

I like to record difficult stealth games, and right now you wonderful people are the only ones delivering on that front.

Click here for the crappy channel where that happens.

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Well, to know that Huma had access to classified materials...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRu3U-nwyhw

 

It's a bunch of interesting facts. People can call it a conspiracy theory all they

want. This is all too close for comfort.

 

Especially since Wikileaks revealed that Clinton knew the "governments" of Saudi Arabia and Qatar

both funded terrorists and she sold them weapons despite this fore-knowledge...

Isn't it the ultimate sovereign? "THE MARKET"! :D

Edited by lowenz
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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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Is one of those places the Muslim sweetshop (it wasn't a sweetshop, it was for money laundering) in London UK, because that's been shutdown and everyone who had anything to do with it is either dead or behind bars. she might not know anything, Muslim women are considered non entities, they don't exist as a person, they are considered as objects.

YOUNG women.


Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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1%2B1%2B1ninetymilesjcl3D1tf7wfuo1_540.j

 

Well, if you kill martyrdom-voted men, you actually endorse their cause IF they're self-proclaimed saviors of entire poor countries.

Social engineering works in not-so-mysterious ways :D

 

Here in Italy some months ago an ultra-right bafoon died in a car incident (due to his stupidity) and all his backers cried for a murder attempt (in the same way of Jörg Haider years ago).

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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He's a showboat for an ideology that hasn't really attracted too many until now.

This lends him a certain ridiculousness that I don't think either of our candidates will be able to match, policies aside.

 

 

Would you like to back that up with any details? What "ideology"? What exactly defines him as a "showboat"? In what way is he "ridiculous"?

 

 

Considering that his approval rating is stil 65% (or was in September, at any rate), obviously the majority of Canadians would disagree with those claims. Do you know something they don't?

http://globalnews.ca/news/2942802/can-justin-trudeaus-high-approval-numbers-survive-canadas-lagging-economy/

 

This is a fake quote, and people were able to believe it because he is just that young and confident in himself, something rarely seen this high up in politics on this end of the spectrum currently.

 

 

Your evidence is that some people on the internet believed a fake quote? That's what makes you think Trudeau is more ridiculous than Trump??

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Well, to know that Huma had access to classified materials...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRu3U-nwyhw

 

It's a bunch of interesting facts. People can call it a conspiracy theory all they

want. This is all too close for comfort.

 

Especially since Wikileaks revealed that Clinton knew the "governments" of Saudi Arabia and Qatar

both funded terrorists and she sold them weapons despite this fore-knowledge...

 

The connections may be quite true. But the conclusions are totally in conspiracy theory territory.

The US supported insurgency groups in various places, at least starting with the Mojaheed in Afghanistan to counter the illegal occupation by the Soviet forces of Afghanistan during the 1979-1989 Afghanistan incursion. That's when Bin Laden came up. The Soviet Union had it's Vietnam. The goal was to kick away the pro-soviet puppet in the region.

However, how can you say that at any point creating terrorist groups is the purpose? It's more like a bad calculation if anything. Nobody knew where it would lead. And that later on the Taliban would take over the whole country. Nobody could forsee that arming an insurgency would lead to a global terrorist network aiming at the entire world.

 

Same with Saudia Arabia and Qatar - they are a counter balance against agressive Shia interest pushing from Iran. An equally, if not worse dictatorship. Currently we see that diferend in Yemen, partialy in Syria. Regularly in Palestine.

There is no conspiracy. There are only US interests. Testament to that is the 2011 Arab Spring. The US prefers to work with democracies. Not dictators. But at the same time it's too dangerous to leave any dictator too powerful - or else it's going to lead to ugly results. Or another extreme of a power vacuum - Iraq until not long ago, Lybia.

 

The only people to profit from conspiracy theories that the US gov on purpose builds terrorist organizations is for Russia - which is always itching a reason to genocide Chechnya, Daghestan and start a real purge on all migrants coming from Central Asia (whether from inside Russia or the ex-soviet Tadjikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan). USSR and Russia were the ones constantly pushing these theories from underground to mainstream political agenda as truth (despite it being complete nonsense).

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Nobody could forsee that arming an insurgency would lead to a global terrorist network aiming at the entire world.

Oh, our good old antisoviet friend :D (1993) knows really well!

A real gentleman!

 

Independent-1993-bin-Laden.jpg

Edited by lowenz
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Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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An equally, if not worse dictatorship.

Iran is not a dictatorship, it's the perfect *theocracy* :D

Don't know if a brutal&barbaric sunni dictatorship is worse than the hierarchical-structured shia nightmare or viceversa :P

Edited by lowenz

Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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Exciting times, and the US presidential elections are just behind the corner. Anyone up for some politics discussion?

Oh yea, I'd love to. Part of the problem in the USA is that politics is taboo around the dinner table. Maybe it's because many people here are thinking more with emotions than facts right now. A discussion of some mundane unemotional topic like the history of cheese making is not a dangerous topic (although everyone's eyes will almost certainly glaze over).

 

What do you think about the whole thing? In a democracy the people get the president they deserve? What about the rest of the world?

That is a good point that not a lot of smart people here think about. If the people are stupid enough to vote for Trump - then they deserve him. But you Europeans shouldn't have to pay the price for our stupidity and hatred.(just like we didn't deserve to pay the price for hitler or stalin).

 

Is the era of facts, numbers and rationality replaced by the era of emotion, shouting and populism? It does not need to *be* right as long as it *feels* right?

This gets to the crux of the problem. I've spent a large portion of my life trying to convince friends, family members and even coworkers of simple facts that most people of western Europe have understood and accepted for decades now. These include facts like man-made global warming, evolution, income inequality, the actual age of the planet, the lack of WMD's in Iraq, the effects of alcohol and tobacco use. etc. etc. etc. Almost always without even a shred of success. I cannot even begin to explain to you the absolute frustration of trying to convince the many young earth creationists here of the actual age of the earth. The conclusion I have come to is this: American culture does not value facts or reality. We don't live in reality. We live in reality TV. I could go on and on about our crappy education system and factually bereft culture - but that about sums it up on a high level. Let me just say that it starts at a very young age.

 

Is this the next Brexit? People are pissed off, and they angrily vote to get things worse for themselves.

No I don't think so, I think Trump is much worse. Brexit may have been a bad decision but even if Britain separates from the EU, they would still be united as a country. Trump is going to divide this country piece by piece.

 

What do you think happens next week? In addition to a brief stock market panic, that is...

Yea, a stock market panic is likely if Trump is elected. The stock market hates unpredictability, and Trump has no firm positions on anything. Even if Trump is elected though, inauguration day is not until January 20. So I don't think next week will be the "end times" as they say. Hillary is slightly favored by the polls but Trump still has a significant chance to come out ahead. If Trump wins, I don't think anyone can predict what will happen accept for the people that know him best. If I had to predict what is at the top of his mind, I would have to say revenge. He is going to go after anyone who has ever criticized him and use the power of the presidency to do that. I think it is likely that he will do this secretly for a time and we may not know about it for a while. This will not just include democrats, but also republicans, former coworkers and business partners. And especially journalists. Rosie O'Donnell is probably near the top of his list. I think he may even try to go after Obama. Trump represents pretty much everything wrong with this country and American culture. When nobody cares about the truth, they can follow very bad leaders.

 

Thanks for the questions. Good questions.

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Oh, our good old antisoviet friend :D (1993) knows really well!

A real gentleman!

 

 

 

Good find.

In 1993 it's a totally different image of the world imagined about our future. Who knew the Cold War never ended ? Another cycle of the same spiral.

 

Iran is not a dictatorship, it's the perfect *theocracy* :D

Don't know if a brutal&barbaric sunni dictatorship is worse than the hierarchical-structured shia nightmare or viceversa :P

The two balance out each in the eternal sunni - shia war to reach something close to a Status Quo and not screw up the region entirely.

But eventually peace must happen. And it's up to muslims to figure out a compromise solution which doesn't involve living by Sharia law.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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If I had to predict what is at the top of his mind, I would have to say revenge. He is going to go after anyone who has ever criticized him and use the power of the presidency to do that. I think it is likely that he will do this secretly for a time and we may not know about it for a while. This will not just include democrats, but also republicans, former coworkers and business partners. And especially journalists. Rosie O'Donnell is probably near the top of his list. I think he may even try to go after Obama. Trump represents pretty much everything wrong with this country and American culture. When nobody cares about the truth, they can follow very bad leaders.

 

Thanks for the questions. Good questions.

 

And what will happen to Julian Assange once Hillary wins?

 

Probably the same thing that happened to Seth Rich, Ron Brown, John Ashe, Vince Foster...

 

Trump's enemies will, at worst, be sued or be tweeted at. His mafia friends will have no need to whack people on his behalf when he can simply pardon at will.

 

Hillary's enemies, on the other hand, have a way of "disappearing" no matter where she stands in the halls of power...

 

Bad choices all around.


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So you're suggesting that Clinton has her enemies assassinated? Never heard that one. Is there good evidence to support this? A quick search for those names has Snopes putting it fully in conspiracy theory territory.

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the actual age of the planet

 

No I don't think so, I think Trump is much worse. Brexit may have been a bad decision but even if Britain separates from the EU, they would still be united as a country. Trump is going to divide this country piece by piece.

 

1) LOL

2) Scottish people are not so south english-friendly :D


Task is not so much to see what no one has yet seen but to think what nobody has yet thought about that which everybody see. - E.S.

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And what will happen to Julian Assange once Hillary wins?

 

Probably the same thing that happened to Seth Rich, Ron Brown, John Ashe, Vince Foster...

 

Trump's enemies will, at worst, be sued or be tweeted at. His mafia friends will have no need to whack people on his behalf when he can simply pardon at will.

 

Hillary's enemies, on the other hand, have a way of "disappearing" no matter where she stands in the halls of power...

 

Bad choices all around.

If we go by the presumption that 100% of what Wikileaks posts is truth - does that automatically mean Assange does this without interest or a hidden agenda? Same as his connection to Snowden and such.

If they DO have an agenda as such, what makes them better than Clinton? The ability to employee sold-out agents and let other states to use that information against the interests of the US isn't even justifiable damage. It's KGB methods.

Wikileaks is a trojan horse like this dude once was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkady_Shevchenko

 

Except that the enemies of the US don't have an interest to promote anything good in the US except divide and sabotage to buy time such as diverting attention from obvious cases of hitmen targeting all opposition left in Russia for example, a detail conveniently ignored by Snowden and Assange. That leads to low credibility in my book. There are priorities in this world. Kind of.


"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Snopes is run and staffed by left-leaning married couple.

 

http://accuracyinpolitics.blogspot.com/2013/05/snopes-got-snoped.html

 

They are alright at fact-checking garden variety hoaxes (etc) but they are far from neutral.

 

Stratfor Intelligence agents:

 

https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/16/1643150_re-analytical-and-intelligence-comments-polish-plane-crash-.html

 

Julian Assange:

 

 

90 people who died in ways that were politically advantageous to Hillary:

 

http://www.freewebs.com/jeffhead/liberty/liberty/bdycount.txt

 

4 people died in a span of less than 3 weeks and all were politically inconvenient to Hillary?

 

The worlds leading government whistle-blower implicated Hillary in one of their deaths?

 

A respected Intelligence Agency (one that worked for Hillary) has top agents concluding she killed multiple detractors?

 

Even if it's all bluster, I'd rather vote for someone with less "bad luck". She's the got the worst Rabbit's foot in history...


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Snopes is run and staffed by left-leaning married couple.

 

http://accuracyinpolitics.blogspot.com/2013/05/snopes-got-snoped.html

 

They are alright at fact-checking garden variety hoaxes (etc) but they are far from neutral.

 

Stratfor Intelligence agents:

 

https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/16/1643150_re-analytical-and-intelligence-comments-polish-plane-crash-.html

 

Julian Assange:

 

 

90 people who died in ways that were politically advantageous to Hillary:

 

http://www.freewebs.com/jeffhead/liberty/liberty/bdycount.txt

 

4 people died in a span of less than 3 weeks and all were politically inconvenient to Hillary?

 

The worlds leading government whistle-blower implicated Hillary in one of their deaths?

 

A respected Intelligence Agency (one that worked for Hillary) has top agents concluding she killed multiple detractors?

 

Even if it's all bluster, I'd rather vote for someone with less "bad luck". She's the got the worst Rabbit's foot in history...

The email is between 2 guys on Stratfor. But we don't see any direct email that Clinton, or anyone from her side contacted anyone that the job is done so and so.

The evidence imho is far too unconclusive. It's just kind of vague.

 

If anything the comparison to Putin is a way to whitewash him and demonize americans.

 

The wikileaks commentary on the top seems despaired to push through the point of view of something esoteric and secret as an absolute truth.

No offence to anyone but Assange just feels kind of snobbish and pretentious. Even before this massive deconspiration of emails. Especially when they took the laurels for the Afghanistan and Iraq military coms. If they were real anyway.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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Yeah, sorry, this has all the hallmarks of conspiracy theories.

 

Discredit the people who dispute it by claiming they're on the wrong team? Check. ( For the record, In 2012, FactCheck.org reviewed a sample of Snopes' responses to political rumors and found them to be free from bias in all cases).

 

Manipulating numbers to make them seem more significant? Check (the 90 deaths of people "close to Clinton" include 34 nameless passengers on a plane)

 

Lack of anything beyond anecdotal evidence of 2nd or 3rd parties? Check.

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I wouldn't have been interested in any of this material if Fox News (etc) were promoting it, so I get where you are coming from.

 

When Anonymous, Julian Assange, Kim DotCom and a cadre of the same hacktivist folks who spearheaded the Occupy Wallstreet movement

spoke-up about this stuff I took strong notice.

 

These folks have exposed more hidden truths in the last 5yrs than the mainstream media has done in the last 30.

 

The Wikileaks data from the Podesta emails and the DNC leaks are DKIM certified by Google. So the idea that this crew is spreading nonsense

is a mainstream media lie provable by DKIM math.

 

What you do with the information is your choice. Not that we have any good choices these days...


Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

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