How to deal with Zombies / Undead

[fraten]

I don't like the undead. I really don't. Even though they are just in my computer, they put me in horror.

 

The Wiki says:

Undead creatures cannot be knocked out by either gas or blows to the head

Does that mean, they cannot be knocked out at all?

and they are often highly resistant to regular weapons.

Does that mean, that I am able to kill Zombies if I only stab them often enough or shoot 20 arrows into them? Ah, I see. Arrows are useless.

All undead are affected (to varying degrees) by holy water and fire.

What do mean by "to varying degrees"? Is this varying by type of Zombie or by type of weapon? Could you upload pictures to the wiki? Seems, as if I'm not able to distinguish between a zombie and a ghoul, for example.

 

What would be the most elegant way to knock out or kill Zombies (if you don't have holy water or fire-arrows)?

 

Did I say I don't like Zombies?

Edited May 12, 2010 by fraten

[Bikerdude]

I don't like the undead. I really don't. Even though they are just in my computer, they put me in horror.

 

The Wiki says:Does that mean, they cannot be knocked out at all?Does that mean, that I am able to kill Zombies if I only stab them often enough or shoot 20 arrows into them? Ah, I see. Arrows are useless.

What do mean by "to varying degrees"? Is this varying by type of Zombie or by type of weapon? Could you upload pictures to the wiki? Seems, as if I'm not able to distinguish between a zombie and a ghoul, for example.

 

What would be the most elegant way to knock out or kill Zombies (if you don't have holy water or fire-arrows)?

 

Did I say I don't like Zombies?

 

I found them too hard to kill also, Im gonna make a point of lowering the kill threshold and remove the foot dragging noise on my map...

[Springheel]

Zombies cannot be killed by arrows. They can be hurt by swords but it takes a while to do enough damage to put them down.

 

Fire arrows are effective, and holy water is effective. Mines might work as well.

 

remove the foot dragging noise on my map...

 

Or you could just use the zombies that don't drag their feet....

[aidakeeley]

I'll go even further:

 

I hate them.

 

Cursed Abominations!

 

And I fucking dread the impending arrival of the Haunts.

[Melan]

They are already in the editor, just not in released levels.

 

Scary.

[aidakeeley]

And it is my understanding that Springheel has vetoed the long-loved ability to murder them with flashbombs...

 

Curses! I've no use for flashbombs other than as a precious device to slay those miserable spectres!

 

Curses!

[fraten]

Yes, Flashbombs would be an elegant way of killing. And I think it would make sense. Like aidakeeley I have no other uses for flashbombs, when I'm sneaking around. I don't use flashbombs on living creatures.

Edited May 14, 2010 by fraten

[Berny]

I hate zombies...

 

but on the other side I love them ^^

 

They make me scared of, and I get really frightened of them. Their voice is just... Brrrrrrrrr  

 

 

 

 

killing them is ok, when they haven't seen you via arrow, and hitting them with the sword is much easier as against guards!

 

 

 

 

 

[Springheel]

Yes, Flashbombs would be an elegant way of killing. And I think it would make sense.

 

We've discussed this at length somewhere else (you could try a search). The short version is that our undead aren't harmed by bright lights.

[Berny]

that's uncool they could at least fall down, like they are before the player comes and 'awakes' them or they could get more angry (would be cool if there are some guards nearby)..

 

 

[stumpy]

I suppose you could use the stim/receptron system to add flashbombs damaging undead to a mission if a mission builder bothered to add it.

[New Horizon]

that's uncool they could at least fall down, like they are before the player comes and 'awakes' them or they could get more angry (would be cool if there are some guards nearby)..

 

Nothing stopping FM authors from doing it. They have the editor in hand, it's just a matter of setting up their Flash Bombs to behave the old way if they want.

[Berny]

but than it's very individual so you don't know when to use it and when not (on which map)

[ungoliant]

Yeah TDM is pretty open to mappers, as long as you dont put in any IP from the original thief series. Even so, established guidelines of the TDM 'world' have been put out on the wiki, and its pretty cool and detailed to boot.

 

Perhaps this could be updated with the official TDM default properties of monsters, equipment, etc, like that flashbombs don't kill zombies. If a mapper chooses to deviate from that, fine, but at least the players who have read about the TDM world will know what the standard is, and so have a clear idea of how to interact with certain tools and AI inside the normal TDM spectrum.

[fraten]

We've discussed this at length somewhere else (you could try a search). The short version is that our undead aren't harmed by bright lights.

 

 

Nothing stopping FM authors from doing it. They have the editor in hand, it's just a matter of setting up their Flash Bombs to behave the old way if they want.

 

I think, we're getting off-topic here.

 

There are some questions in the first post, which were not answered yet. What's a ghoul (picture)? What varying degree? How do you deal with the undead? Sneak around them? Stab them "dead"?

[Xarg]

The foot-draggers can be killed with swords if you are careful about swing timing and max distance. Revenants parry. My method for dealing with them is drag them into guards, get out of reach, and hide until my alert level goes down enough to prompt guard vs zombie brawling. Or keep running. I love the noises the Revenants make.. the noises! One of those sneaking up on you will probably scare the crap out of you.

[Springheel]

I love the noises the Revenants make.. the noises! One of those sneaking up on you will probably scare the crap out of you.

 

Thanks. I tried to put together some of the creepiest sounds I could find.

[Diego]

I didn't see any Revenants! :-o What mission can I find some?

 

Edit: oh, there are no missions with them yet! (just got a little carried away)

Edited May 18, 2010 by Diego

[aidakeeley]

I tried to put together some of the creepiest sounds I could find.

 

Though I suspect I shall dread them and dread their "return" to my gaming experience. I must commend you for paying special attention to the Revs...

 

For there is rumor that they were inspired by what I consider the most frightening enemies I've known... those with, without a doubt, the very best call ever. Classic. Iconic. Legendary. I can hear it nowwwwww, I can hear it whenever I think of said fiends.

 

If I can gather myself and bear it, I will now go DR one up in my test room.

Edited May 18, 2010 by aidakeeley

[LEGION]

You speak of Haunts, don´t you, don´t you? Can´t wait to see/hear/feel them in a mission. I really like the Undead if there is a logic explanation for them to be around. (like this strange artifact in this game some people call the inspirational source for the DarkMod) I don´t like them to be part of the world like animals. So, they shouldn´t be overused. Few is more in this case. (I don´t think this is right English but I´m sure you know what I mean) Oh, and I really do like the Undead if they don´t get in my way. I don´t see my character as a kind of a Ghost-, äh Zombiebuster.

So, my method for dealing with the Undead is not to deal with them at all. Usually it ends in reloading the last savegame. I really hope that future mappers will provide (spectacular) ways around them. (like in NHAT)

[Mr Lemony Fresh]

I have an idea. What if we break the rules just this once and do something that wasn't in theif. We're dealing with a more modernised game engine, and wer'e heading towards realism (yeah i know, zombies aren't realism lol....but...), and zombies are slow, and zombies are made of decaying flesh, and naked. So why not make the body parts detachable, so that you you can hack them up when you attack at the joints to stop them moving. (much like in dead space.)

 

I this might be difficult to achieve, but think of the reward!

 

Or else, introduce some kinda other thing like, i dunno, a hammerite hammer that prevents the un-dead from entering your personal space, but i really don't like the idea of being left without defence I've run out of holy water or fire arrows.

[Melan]

There were zombies with severable extremities in T2X. The problem is that they were more comical than threatening.

[Springheel]

I this might be difficult to achieve, but think of the reward!

 

It would be extremely difficult to achieve, and I don't see any reward, frankly.

 

Zombies can already be 'killed' with the sword if you hack at the long enough. Having bits fall off is, as Melan pointed out, usually comical (unless we're just talking about a more "gibbous" particle effect, which someone is welcome to create).

[7upMan]

(unless we're just talking about a more "gibbous" particle effect, which someone is welcome to create).

 

Oh yes, just remembered Quake 1 and the rocket launcher. Man, that was a frag fest. I had so much fun with the zombies and the meat grinder sound they made when being blown up... 

[Mr Lemony Fresh]

No problem, i was just taking a stab having run out of ideas

 

But with the hammer, maybe not so much? if you use it like it's a weapon, perhaps it could be used for just repelling evil, rather than fighting it, so you have to have it out for it to work. It could also have a charge too... There's any number of things that can be done to balance it out.

 

Zombies can already be 'killed' with the sword if you hack at the long enough. Having bits fall off is, as Melan pointed out, usually comical (unless we're just talking about a more "gibbous" particle effect, which someone is welcome to create).

 

Yeah. But hitting things with a sword in this mod is the last thing I want to do, unless I have more control at some point :/

Edited May 24, 2010 by Mr Lemony Fresh