Things that could be improved

[Noisycricket]

Someone else can animate that if they want, but for ambiance, i'd much rather focus on blacksmith and worker animations, dark, dangerous characters, drunks, whatever leads to a darker, scarier, experience.

 

Assuming theres no problems, some newer combat animations will be in 1.04. At the moment only the upper torso has animations, thats part of the reason they don't look quite right. I already offered to do some full body animations, but Ishtvan would have to rework the entire combat system code.

[LEGION]

Realistically speaking, a bow would be far more likely to block a sword than a leather bag. At least a bow is made out of wood.

Hmm, okay, here comes my last but most powerful argument: It was possible in Thief1/2 (I can´t tell for TDS).

It´s not really the block itself but the aspect that I can´t raise the blackjack for defence at all. Who cares if it´s not effective, let players find out themselves. Hey, even record guard-laughter so they can mock the player sth like "Hohohaha, what are you gonna do with that you silly wannabe?". Sound like a good idea?

 

And about my blackjack-hit-cancel-script: Does someone already looked at it and has some tips what can be done to make it better? At least that repeating-animation when block is hold I want to get away. And also isn´t it sth for the mod to cancel the attack? How often did you raised your blackjack and sth stupid happened that made you want to cancel but instead you hit the wall?

 

Some completely unrealistic crazy animation ideas too:

Group court dances!

 

Entwined with a few greeting animations (bows) this could lead to wicked party missions.

 

What the hell , are you serious about this?

[demagogue]

I've mentioned court-dance animations before (I don't doubt it was mentioned long before me too). During the discussion on prop animations (playing cards, drinking from a cup, etc, which require code support) IIRC the idea of NPC-coordinated animations also came up, since it's in a similar neighborhood. I think around there is where I thought about it. Anyway it would look awesome if it ever works out.

[i30817]

I wish there was a affordable technology for motion capture using rifid tags or something. Seems like a no brainer for animation.

[STiFU]

Better use "or something", because RFID is horribly imprecise for localization unless you have like 1000s of transmitters... There are far better optical approaches for Mocap in a multicamera setup.

 

Alright, that was pretty off-topic. So what could I write now to justify this post? Ah, I got it: I too think blocking with blackjack is unrealistic, but if the block-button doesn't actually result in a block and just releases the raised blackjack, I'd be fine with that.

[Aprilsister]

All I was suggesting is the ability to abort a blackjack swipe... like you can do with the bow... without having to resort to the Thief method of switching weapons.

[LEGION]

And I provided it, still not perfect though, but I´m not skilled enough to make it perfect, so...

[Springheel]

Hmm, okay, here comes my last but most powerful argument: It was possible in Thief1/2

 

It was also possible to knock out guards by hitting them in the foot.

 

It´s not really the block itself but the aspect that I can´t raise the blackjack for defence at all. Who cares if it´s not effective, let players find out themselves. Hey, even record guard-laughter so they can mock the player sth like "Hohohaha, what are you gonna do with that you silly wannabe?". Sound like a good idea?

 

So you think we should add a blocking motion, code AI reaction to it and record special vocal barks, all for something that doesn't actually do anything?

[Aprilsister]

Hey, thanks, LEGION! I guess I missed that in all the ensuing...

 

I'm going to put that in my darkmod folder right now and try it out right now. Thanks again!

 

...

 

Upon having tried it.

 

It crashes my D3 consistently. With a nice and similarly consistent "invalid memory ref" OS-caught error (i.e. "Send / Don't send").

 

I got XPSP3; TDM 1.03 (very clean -- deleted all old FMs and only have 2 now); No problems if I resuffix the pk4 to disable it... the crash happens quickly as the "loading" progress bar just gets started (~5% progress, if even). I don't have a "script" folder anywhere from Doom3 on down, btw, if that means anything.

 

...

 

But, while I'm here and have some of y'all's attention I want to ask something that hopefully can be answered easily:

 

I should be able to use a spawn_arg in the console to spawn the new creatures into whatever FM I am playing, no? Isn't that the original use of spawn_args? I just want to take a look at the horse, werebeast... and chicks too... without having to DR.

 

Figured this spawn thing out. Saw some horses and werebeasts and ladies!

 

Semi-spoilerish stuff for the team (a bita beta):

 

 

Horses get stuck in mid-air if you are so mean as to shoot them with a firearrow... and they blowtup jus wrat... (I just wanted to see if they responded to this and that {nudges, sounds, and as last resort... firearrows})

 

Werebeasts are too heavy to shoulder, which is fine, if that's the intention.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2010 by Aprilsister

[i30817]

I think that guards should be suspicious of left open doors (possibly windows) if they find them on patrol routes.

 

Specifically they should be suspicious of open doors "last_opened_by_player" so you can avoid some logical awkwardness like AI crossing at a door and becoming suspicious.

 

It might need some specific or even new barks though.

Also, it might be good to have two modes: suspicious of open door when they see it, or suspicious of open door when they try to open it, for mappers to use if it is a solitary guard/if he crosses the door or just performance.

Edited December 29, 2010 by i30817

[Springheel]

The barks and code are already in place, and mappers can already set doors as suspicious if open. We just need to implement the "last_opened_by_player" part of it.

[Mr Lemony Fresh]

Speaking of speed of movement which was mentioned earlier I still think there could be a sprint metre which should be easy to implement because something like that already exists in doom 3. Also a timer could detect when nearby guards are alerted, to add like 5 points to your energy bar every 5 seconds, you know adrenaline. This could also effect movement in general like climbing and such.

And regarding adrenaline, I'm not a fit person, but a few weeks ago my girlfriend called and told me there were people outside the house that wanted to hurt her and she called the police. I got so worried that I ran 0.80 km to get to her, 0.30 of them were through a deep bush gully filled with snakes, leaches and other nasties I tumbled down some layers of twigs and sticks and such pushing and fighting the thick undergrowth (don't have my provisional licence yet, and it cut 4km off my journey) Just as I found out she was alright, I got REALLY tired XD and amazingly I didn't even pick up any leaches =) Not the smartest thing I've ever done but I was rewarded =D =D

 

So yeah, adrenaline makes a difference =D

[i30817]

I've noticed the thief can bunny hop (crouch and repeat jump) to move over noisy floors almost silently, much faster than creep.

This is quite silly.

 

Other movement thing i think silly: the thief can mantle into basically everything that has enough space. Some things things that though it should be possible to mantle on, at least should be noisy to do so, like tables with things on it (it's probably a hard problem considering they are separate objects) and things he probably shouldn't, like wall lamps. I dunno, it's fun and kinda pointless, but i've been catching myself zooming in into the tables, chests and even chairs to mantle on because i know they are outside of the AI path routes and are perfectly safe in darkness (not to mention the wall lamps). They should be ideally at least noisier to mantle on. Add sounds to the mantle action? Make lamps fall down like the beams in "Glenham tower"?

Edited December 29, 2010 by i30817

[LEGION]

Hey, thanks, LEGION! I guess I missed that in all the ensuing...

 

I'm going to put that in my darkmod folder right now and try it out right now. Thanks again!

 

...

 

Upon having tried it.

 

It crashes my D3 consistently. With a nice and similarly consistent "invalid memory ref" OS-caught error (i.e. "Send / Don't send").

 

I got XPSP3; TDM 1.03 (very clean -- deleted all old FMs and only have 2 now); No problems if I resuffix the pk4 to disable it... the crash happens quickly as the "loading" progress bar just gets started (~5% progress, if even). I don't have a "script" folder anywhere from Doom3 on down, btw, if that means anything.

 

What the hell, I´m sorry but, what the hell? I just downloaded it myself and it´s the same I use. The script-folder is inside the pk4. Did you put it in the DarkMod-folder?

I too have XPSP3, so . Anyone else tried it?

 

You could try to extract the pk4 inside the DarkMod-folder so the script-folder get´s created, but shouldn´t do any difference...

[LEGION]

So you think we should add a blocking motion, code AI reaction to it and record special vocal barks, all for something that doesn't actually do anything?

Hm, yes? Well, it would do little, not anything. And would it be really that much an effort as it sounds?

Oh well, forget it. Maybe in time I can achieve it myself (without crashing Aida´s system...)

 

Speaking of speed of movement which was mentioned earlier I still think there could be a sprint metre which should be easy to implement because something like that already exists in doom 3. Also a timer could detect when nearby guards are alerted, to add like 5 points to your energy bar every 5 seconds, you know adrenaline. This could also effect movement in general like climbing and such.

And regarding adrenaline, I'm not a fit person, but a few weeks ago my girlfriend called and told me there were people outside the house that wanted to hurt her and she called the police. I got so worried that I ran 0.80 km to get to her, 0.30 of them were through a deep bush gully filled with snakes, leaches and other nasties I tumbled down some layers of twigs and sticks and such pushing and fighting the thick undergrowth (don't have my provisional licence yet, and it cut 4km off my journey) Just as I found out she was alright, I got REALLY tired XD and amazingly I didn't even pick up any leaches =) Not the smartest thing I've ever done but I was rewarded =D =D

 

So yeah, adrenaline makes a difference =D

And what about the bad people? I wanna know more!!

I think it´s a nice idea with the adrenaline and such.

 

I've noticed the thief can bunny hop (crouch and repeat jump) to move over noisy floors almost silently, much faster than creep.

This is quite silly.

 

Other movement thing i think silly: the thief can mantle into basically everything that has enough space. Some things things that though it should be possible to mantle on, at least should be noisy to do so, like tables with things on it (it's probably a hard problem considering they are separate objects) and things he probably shouldn't, like wall lamps. I dunno, it's fun and kinda pointless, but i've been catching myself zooming in into the tables, chests and even chairs to mantle on because i know they are outside of the AI path routes and are perfectly safe in darkness (not to mention the wall lamps). They should be ideally at least noisier to mantle on. Add sounds to the mantle action?

Well, for the bunny hop, silly is the one who uses it, but I see no need to prevent it at all...

 

And objects on tables make noise when you bump into them fast (sometimes, true).

[i30817]

You don't see a need to move silently and almost as fast as running in full marble?

 

Well, actually, it has a use... It is the only way i found to pickpocket silently torch carrying AI's that don't pass through a niche (that could be a nice idea for a mapper to put on a mission - a niche for pickpocketing a torch ai that is). Still risky though, since you can't touch them.

 

For a example, see the torch AI in the beleaguered fence.

Edited December 29, 2010 by i30817

[LEGION]

I meant that I see no need to 'take it out of the mod' because I had the impression that you suggested that. However, I won´t use that 'method' because, well, I wouldn´t do that in RL.

[i30817]

I was thinking of making the initial jumping sound stronger if you have any such. Of course i think i realize that you don't have such a separate event i guess.

In thief moving by jumping was a good way to suicide.

[LEGION]

I guess the non-existing jumping-sound for such low heights is implemented in case for mantle-failures. However, we have a Mantle-only-cmd and I configured my gamepad in a way that I only have to hold my jump-key to do that function. Too bad you keyboard-players are still keyboard-players...

[Springheel]

I've noticed the thief can bunny hop (crouch and repeat jump) to move over noisy floors almost silently, much faster than creep.

This is quite silly.

 

Haven't tried that myself...I didn't even realize you could jump while crouched. That doesn't make much sense.

[Aprilsister]

You could try to extract the pk4 inside the DarkMod-folder so the script-folder get´s created, but shouldn´t do any difference...

 

Did so and... yeah, exact same crash. I'm even playing a different mission, but it crashes just as early in the load.

[LEGION]

Last try: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DO48TWS0

[Serpentine]

I brought up the bunny hopping shortly after the initial release, the silent fall was fixed to only apply to moving from one material to another iirc. Tho you can still crouch jump to avoid making a sound at the end of a run, it's much harder to keep the movespeed that you could before. I'd still like the silent fall thing to be dependent on movespeed, as it's useful but a bit too safe for making quick dashes, there should at least be a minimal level of sound made if you land > walk speed. Maybe a 'nice to have', but not a real pressing matter imho

[Aprilsister]

That is exactly the same script, LEGION. So same result.

 

I think it probably has to do with directory structures or something... anyway I don't quite understand how a script can get a hold of such an elemental hook as that which controls the behavior of such an elemental piece of gameplay equipment. Is scripting really that powerful? I thought this would be handled in the dll code somewhere as I imagined the bow behavior was/is... or maybe the bow behavior is sort of built in as a remnant of D3? Maybe the bow is classed as something more native to D3 weaponry?

[LEGION]

That is exactly the same script, LEGION. So same result.

Yeah, I just had the idea that maybe the Forum-code was messing it up while you were downloading it. I´ll post the script-content in Editor´s Guild, maybe I get more attention there...