Osama Bin Laden shot and killed in Pakistan

[ungoliant]

'Mission Accomplished'? Probably not, but the snakes head is cut off. I especially liked the part where they dragged his corpse ass out to sea and sank it in the middle of the ocean to prevent memorials and pilgrimages to his burial site. Brilliant. I'm expecting that global travel security is going to tighten up for a while (more-so than usual) as a precaution against retaliation, but the ends are worth the means. Helluva start to the work week!

[Melan]

Well, if there was someone who deserved to be taken out, it was him. Good job.

[Jesps]

Good riddance. I wonder how much actual influence he had in the Al Qaeda network.

[Bikerdude]

probably not very much theses days as I did see any mention of this on the news..

 

[update] just seeing on the tv just now...

[Springheel]

I love the way this showed up in the new threads list:

 

Osama Bin Laden shot and killed in Pakistan by

ungoliant

 

Good job, ungoliant!

[ungoliant]

I love the way this showed up in the new threads list:

 

 

 

Good job, ungoliant!

 

:laugh: completely unintentional but totally hilarious. i'll take credit if anyone wants to give it though

[Midnight]

Ordinarily I would have preferred to have seen someone like OBL go to trial to stand for their crimes, but in this case I think this was the best outcome. Putting aside the circus of a trial that we'd have seen, imagine if he'd been incarcerated (assuming he wasn't executed) it would just inspire multitudes of fanatics to try use kidnap and hijackings to demand his freedom etc.

 

However, despite this being the best outcome I couldn't help but feel disgusted at all the shrieking and cheering outside the White House this morning. Celebrating death in such a way, or at all, doesn't seem fitting in civilised society and is, in my view, hypocritical.

 

Also, "Mission Accomplished"? Al-Qaeda isn't a snake, it's a Hydra, you'll never eradicate this sect or terrorism in general if you keep fighting it with guns. This ideology is the result of a virus of the mind, the more extreme ideas having been brought about largely as a result of torture (in Egypt). Al-Qaeda will disappear when the actions of the rest of the world no longer give them an excuse to exist.

[Sotha]

Yeah. I dunno. I think too that cheering over such an execution is a bit nauseating. American trigger pulling "justice" without any trials. Like the crowd cheering over guillotines back in the old days. Non-civilized.

 

Then again, Bin Laden probably knew this was coming and their monstrous attacks were savage as well.

 

So there we have it: a barbaric end for a vicious savage.

 

I just hope too many innocent people will not be killed in the upcoming retaliations.

 

Let's start the timers to see how long it takes for a movie/game come out of this..

[Xarg]

Weren't the Americans all in an uproar over video footage of people in the Middle-East cheering and celebrating after Sept 11, and now this?

[nbohr1more]

This is a mixed victory:

 

If other potential terrorists see that America will "spare no expense" to hunt them down as a deterrent then we have gained some ground.

 

If other potential terrorists are slyly aware that America will "spare no expense" (go broke) hunting one man then we are in for even more terrorists for the sheer economic devastation they can wreak.

 

It all depends on both the intelligence and attitude of the target audience. If the net number of dumb hateful people outnumbers the smart hateful people then we are in the lead...

 

I will simply be glad that one ring-leader has been knocked-out.

[OrbWeaver]

I'm expecting that global travel security is going to tighten up for a while (more-so than usual) as a precaution against retaliation, but the ends are worth the means.

 

So, the western world is even more inconvenienced with security theatre, the ongoing threat of terrorism isn't in any way reduced (and is quite possibly increased), and somehow we're supposed to consider that a good thing?

[Fidcal]

Yes, justice is better than injustice even if it is costly.

 

Hopefully one day mankind will find better ways of dealing with evil but until then this is the best solution we have in this case I think.

[stumpy]

looks like the pakistani government knew he was there, due to fraudian slip during an interview with the bbc. claiming he'd only been at the compound a couple of days and was constantly being moved around.

[nbohr1more]

My favorite images from the Quake3world topic:

 

 

 

[Fidcal]

That live tweet of the raid is an interesting read.

 

http://twitter.com/ReallyVirtual

 

Go back about 5 pages to where it starts at the top.....

 

Helicopter hovering above Abbottabad at 1AM (is a rare event).

 

I have the time of that at 12:58 PM May 1st via TweetDeck but I don't know if that is converted to my local equivalent time.

[7upMan]

I'm sorry to say this, but Midnight is the only one who had anything smart to say about this. I see the US as the main perpetrator here, as US actions will continue to breed hate (and thus, extremism). Think about the support the US gives/gave to known dictators and terrorists. Remember that saying "He's an SOB but he's our SOB"?

 

OBL was once a big friend of the US when he was fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. He is/was in good company: Papa Doc and Baby Doc in Haiti. Charles Taylor in Liberia. The Shah in Iran. Pinochet in Chile. Gaddafi in Libya. Mubarak in Egypt. The list goes on and on. All of them were cruel, brutal oppressors, and all of them were supported by the US - until they fell in disgrace and were removed from power.

 

I don't mean to say that Western Europe didn't have it's share in the whole mess, but the US is self-appointed leader of the West and thus shares a large part of the responsibility. I'm absolutely convinced that once the West stops supporting dictators and start recognizing elected representatives - even if they are socialist like Allende in Chile or Aristide in Haiti - a lot of conflicts will burn out and quiet down. Imagine Israel losing US backing - they'd actually have to develop an interest in peace with the Palestinians. Guantanamo, anyone? Wiki-leaked documents even show that to a large part the inmates are innocent (I have only linksto German websites, but you may have read about it on the news).

 

It all boils down to a simple formula: stop breeding hate, and the world will become a better place.

 

EDIT: Just to clarify: I do not support terrorism in any kind, and I despise the hate-mongers on any side. I just ask you to put it all into context. Sure, 9/11 was a tragedy, but are "our" dead civilians more worth than "their" dead civilians? Think about it.

 

 

[Fidcal]

But that reduces to my....

Hopefully one day mankind will find better ways of dealing with evil but until then this is the best solution we have in this case I think.

 

The current situation is OBL was leading a cult whose sole existence seemed bent on directly killing innocent people out of hate with no other objective resulting from that. They know it cannot achieve anything other than satisfy their own perverted beliefs.

 

Perhaps society produces lunatics who run amok through streets and schools killing innocents. Society may be unintentionally to blame for producing these misfits but for now all we can do is remove them as best we can to protect the innocent in the future.

 

If a tiger escapes from the zoo then capture or kill it. Don't leave it to roam the streets because it's our fault we should never have put it in a zoo in the first place.

[Springheel]

It all boils down to a simple formula: stop breeding hate, and the world will become a better place.

 

Nothing in world politics ever boils down to a simple forumla.

[Sotha]

I agree that the world would be a better place if people were nice to each other and didn't brood hate. To achieve that goal, you would need to remove all humans from the face of the planet, since hate brooding, bitterness and general nastiness seem to be intrinsic human qualities.

 

..there was this guy long ago, can't remember his name. Jack or Jesse or something like that. He suggested that people should turn the other cheek when people are nasty to you. You know: to make the world a better place for everyone. They crucified him and made the killing device a central symbol of a belief system. Poor guy.

[7upMan]

I agree that the world would be a better place if people were nice to each other and didn't brood hate. To achieve that goal, you would need to remove all humans from the face of the planet, since hate brooding, bitterness and general nastiness seem to be intrinsic human qualities.

This is certainly correct. However, one can fuel these very basic human qualities, or not. In case of OBL, he was supported by the US when he fought the evil Soviets in Afghanistan. Never mind that the Soviets supported a government that introduced equal rights for men and women, that allowed for culture and education for everyone etc. Maybe not all was well, but it was a huge step forward. However, the US supported savages like the Mujahideen with weapons and money. You are all familiar with the outcome. OBL would have never have come to the power he had without American interference. Also, the Bush family was more than hesitant to get OBL killed, as documents prove.

 

 

Nothing in world politics ever boils down to a simple forumla.

 

But it does. It's only when "interests" (as in national interests) come into play, things get ugly. Remember, "He's an SOB but he's our SOB." Once this thinking stops, things will slowly but surely start to level themselves out. See Egypt and Tunisia.

[Springheel]

But it does. It's only when "interests" (as in national interests) come into play, things get ugly. Remember, "He's an SOB but he's our SOB." Once this thinking stops, things will slowly but surely start to level themselves out

 

Right. Because things were so much more peaceful back in the early forties, before America started getting so involved in world affairs.

[OrbWeaver]

The current situation is OBL was leading a cult whose sole existence seemed bent on directly killing innocent people out of hate with no other objective resulting from that.

 

OBL was just one figurehead for violent expansionist political Islam, which is an ideology that is very much alive and well and entirely unaffected by his death. The rest of the world's suicide bombers are not going to give up and go home just because OBL is no longer there to make the occasional video. Only in Marvel Comics and Hollywood movies does killing one supervillain magically solve the world's problems.

[Fidcal]

OBL was just one figurehead for violent expansionist political Islam, which is an ideology that is very much alive and well and entirely unaffected by his death. The rest of the world's suicide bombers are not going to give up and go home just because OBL is no longer there to make the occasional video. Only in Marvel Comics and Hollywood movies does killing one supervillain magically solve the world's problems.

It's one supervillain less to lead, instruct, and brainwash others so total evil is reduced by 0.001% whatever. In the same way, sending one habitual burglar to prison for 6 months is not going to solve all crime. We may not like it but I can't think of a better way to proceed at the moment given the situation we are in.

[7upMan]

Right. Because things were so much more peaceful back in the early forties, before America started getting so involved in world affairs.

Back then there were the European powers, the Brits, the French, the German Kaiserreich. They were the ones that started the mess with Afghanistan in the first place. However, the ones that are currently pouring oil into the fire are first and foremost the US and their lackeys. You, being American patriots, may not like to hear about it, but facts speak for themself.

 

In case you misunderstood me, I'm not trying any America-bashing, which I know you guys are sensitive about. I'm fully aware of Germany's role in worlds politics, and I'm not blind to Russia's and China's machinations either. However, those countries don't have an armada of warships, armed with nuclear weapons and cruising around the world, and they also are not attacking formerly friendly states (as Saddam's Iraq was in the 80's) because of fictional weapons of mass destruction.

 

 

I'm not the least bit upset about OBL's death, in fact I welcome it, but it is not going to solve any of the current problems. You have to be realistic about that.

 

 

[Sotha]

I'm not trying any America-bashing, which I know you guys are sensitive about. I'm fully aware of Germany's role in worlds politics, and I'm not blind to Russia's and China's machinations either. However, those countries don't have an armada of warships, armed with nuclear weapons and cruising around the world, and they also are not attacking formerly friendly states (as Saddam's Iraq was in the 80's) because of fictional weapons of mass destruction.

 

Uh oh, America-bashing mentioned. The US foreign policy (during Bush administration) have made anti-american attitudes more popular in Europe. Many see americans as the bully with nukes, interfering in sovereign countries business, having their spoon in other people's soups etc etc.

 

But then again, if I got to choose one world superpower doing what they please with everyone else's expense, I'd choose that superpower to be the US, rather than Russia or China. USA ain't the worst of the bunch, I suppose...