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pusianka

Modern TDM

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In v1.08, you don't need to restart TDM anymore, it just reloads the contents, which is much faster (also, tdmlauncher is no more needed, so it starts faster and uses less memory :(

 

:(:huh::)

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In v1.08, you don't need to restart TDM anymore, it just reloads the contents, which is much faster (also, tdmlauncher is no more needed, so it starts faster and uses less memory :(

 

Nice news then. :D

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Er, man, I only noticed now I used the wrong smiley. Sorry :blush:


"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

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Your friend have played too many Assassins Creed...

 

Stop... just stop right there. You are insulting my friend, deeply... Since when Assassins Creed is a classy game? It's garbage.

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Stop... just stop right there. You are insulting my friend, deeply... Since when Assassins Creed is a classy game? It's garbage.

 

Sorry not my intention :laugh: and i totally concur with you on that.

 

But the only game that i thought that could be similar to a thief game with a big city hub was Assassins Creed. :P

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Well I don't need to repeat what the chorus has already said. They repeat my thoughts.

 

But for an individual campaign it could be interesting to see a hub system where it might even be possible to do "missions" in different orders, or maybe there isn't even set missions, just connected levels and running objectives you get and fulfill as you go, and the objectives can even cross levels ... something like a scaled-down Skyrim. I guess that calls for a loading-zone system, which I don't recall is possible or not. But yeah, I'd be interested to see something like that. But since it's hard finding manpower just to do a vanilla campaign, it'd be hard to see it come together. We're doing good still getting individual FMs coming out.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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assassins creed hub its that computer that wanders through your mind, and only exists in one room. the game is all those cities, and they're not hubs, just one very huge map, if you count the assassins bases as hubs then there is only one small room. so assassins creed hub is very small. tdm's hub would have to be huge for all the maps to be added. what about the maps that dont use the city that are set outside the city or set a long way away from bridgeport.

 

so you start in bridgeport and load a map thats set 100 miles from bridgeport, what you do show a steamboat/stadgecoach traveling to unknown destination, then wake up in your house in the other village/town/city wont that feel odd to the player.

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Something could be done with fancy menu animations like in LA Noire, for instance, where each major menu option smoothly swoops you in to a themed background room, or something. But why would we work on that fancier menu dressing when there's other stuff left to do that has much larger effects on the core gameplay?

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Actually I think there are some good arguments to work on polish and dressing like that, because that sometimes makes the biggest impression, practically speaking, on players in really connecting with the game. That part of HL2 really sticks with me when I think about the game. Whereas we could spend a LOT of work on some core gameplay thing most of which is practically hidden from most players and doesn't affect their experience much.

 

That said, I think the menu animations, etc, are fine for Dark Mod. They've become very established over the last 2 years, so it might feel weird changing them now. OTOH, it might not be a bad idea to polish some things up for a version going standalone since we could expect a lot of exposure around then, and have more interest capturing the public's imagination. Since that won't be for a while yet (if ever), then it's just an idea for the back burner for now.


What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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personally, I never want the main menu theme/interface to change. <3

however, if/when TDM goes standalone, I can recognize there might be, say, several to multiple thousands more new players whose first impression may trump my personal preferences. I'm not really sure what the best solution is, but I'm also sure that the menu can be improved (without a hub). But whatever happens - KEEP THE MUSIC

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But whatever happens - KEEP THE MUSIC

 

+1


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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personally, I never want the main menu theme/interface to change. <3

 

+1

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as the game is settled in "the past", i think this old-fashioned menu fits pretty good

a polished, animated menu may stood in contrast to the game setting itself


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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For me personally game features like ai smartness or graphical enhancement / new assetts are more important than immersive menu changes :mellow:

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"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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"Old BS arguments" here we go...

 

Huh? :huh:


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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I just hate when you* keep going into - its not achieveable/I don't think we need this now/too much effort etc.

 

IT IS NOT RELEVANT, NOT IN THIS THREAD, got it?

 

 

* you - meaning you all with these BS arguments.

Edited by pusianka

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Okay, got it. Then back to the pink elephants now!


"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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Well, I mapped around a little bit to make a concept, how the docks in a hub map for example could look like. It is a very rough work and just should show, how it could look and feel. Don't be to harsh. :P I know most walls need a proper texture alignment. But the map will sink into oblivion anyway.

Docks Concept Map

 

 

So... what are your thoughts? Do you maybe wanna see a whole FM, made out of this, or is it just the same ordinary stuff, you already know and I should vanish this map?

Perhaps it is a work for the abandoned section and someone wants to build from this one up?

 

Btw.: Is there a Lighthouse FM already available?

Edited by Radiant

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remembers me a bit of the second thief II mission

some warehouses, more little side-gaps and a boatyard and this could be a very nice mission

 

btw: i think fog and a slight rain would fit quite good in this ambience

there is a tutorial on the wiki for creating city streets that may help also here, as those effects are

not very good in helping performance :P

 

give it a try and I'll betatest it, so we're even


FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

WIP's: Several. Although after playing Thief 4 I really wanna make a city mission.

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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Honestly, I also like the idea of hideout, even if I perfectly understand that it doesn't fit TDM. In a more realistic thief game, I would like to do a mission to get cash to use to buy equipment for the next mission. More stolen stuff means more equipment, better maps, clues about loot positions and maybe even the possibility to bribe some guards. The thing that I like most is that for complex and difficult mission you could do before some "secondary missions" to generate more cash to better prepare for the "real mission". If there is something that I really miss in thief games is the possibility to prepare and study my next mission. Right now, some TDM missions have the possibility to buy stuff at the shop before entering the map but the money that you have is decided by the mission itself.

For people saying "what if the mission starts in a prison": somehow you have entered the prison. Ideally, other missions could, at the end, move you to another location that is not necessarily your hideout. Basically, they "trigger" the next mission enforcing you to do it. Moreover, we already have this difference (mission starting or not from a "hypothetical hideout") in TDM: missions in which you can shop are probably the one that starts from your hideout while missions in which you can't shop are the one in which the starting point is changed, probably forced. For the prison, it would be nice to "go in prison" if guards find you instead of being killed. Guards shouldn't kill thieves, guards should kill assassins or rapist (except for some particular cases of course). If you have just stolen stuff, then you go to jail. That triggers the "prison mission" in which you must escape and the more you stay in prison the more...they take your money from the hideout e.g. (ok, this is a silly idea).

 

Let me reiterate that I know this isn't the TDM style and I really enjoy to "change my skin" and play as a different character every time. I'm not saying current missions should change (and please please please continue the current storylines because they are amazing), I'm saying that sometimes (often) you feel restricted in a very unrealistic way. For instance, finding clues during the missions feels like being unprepared, but a thief should always plan its next move (IMHO) and only in some extreme cases be unprepared.

 

Again, this is my personal idea of how to have a nice thief "sandbox" game. Also finding missions and informations could be interesting, like searching in taverns or talking with some people. Not sure how feasible this could be, of course, but..hey, dreaming is cheap and nice :rolleyes:!


System76 Gazelle professional with Intel® Core i7-3610QM CPU @ 2.30GHz, 8GB ram and Intel HD Graphics 4000

 

https://www.system76.com/laptops/model/gazp8

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Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I do disagree strongly with you melrief, but I hope my comments are taken respectfully.

 

Beyond the gameplay and coding nightmares this would entail (detailed well by Springhell on page 1), the logistical and storytelling issues of making all of this seem coherent would be impossible to juggle, even if the devs were getting paid for this. In the end, we'd have some tacked on features that neither add to any individual missions nor tie things together better than they are already.

 

Also, this thread frames the lack of continuity as a fault. I've always seen it as a strength. Campaigns end. TDM doesn't. T2 has a story arc. T2 FMs are limitless. Standalone missions also require less of a time committment. I love that aspect of TDM. I can knock out a 30-minute mission on a free night, jump right in without having to worry about gearing up or finding clues or locating an entrance, and can leave the game for weeks afterwards without any loose plot strands to tie up or navigating to do. It's also allows you to build your own world and story. Your "steal and go to jail" idea for a prison mission might work for some prison FMs, and I'm sure we could think of other ways to tie things in. But many FMs have elaborate backstories with multiple plot points. I'd rather craft the back story and weave things together in my mind. I can appreciate the sense that this is all tied together somehow. I love that feeling as well. But "the City" in my mind, with all of these characters and missions and campaigns going on at various points, paints a richer image in my mind than any in-game attempt ever could.

 

Also, in T1 and 2, we couldn't build up cash to buy more equipment, and couldn't save equipment from mission to mission, and the overall balance was better for it. By the end of T3, with a city hub and ability to prep, I had so much stuff that the last few missions were a joke. Any attempt to let us steal and prep between missions would either have to be negated once missions start (and thus pointless) or could severely damage mission balancing.

 

Lastly, city hubs are fine in games that take ~20 hours to complete. Hell, it acted as a nice filler in T4, which would have been woefully short otherwise. But how will we feel about our headquarters when we're navigating it on mission #60 and hour #100 of our TDM experience?

 

But beyond all of that, this discussion is (likely) entirely academic; a hypothetical. I can't imagine the development needed to make it happen, but I'd guess it's beyond the scope of even TDM's considerably talented team.

Edited by Digi

"Fancy burricks are afraid of dogs, if they encounter each other the dog barks and the burricks poop." - Thief: Deadly Shadows Game Designer

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By the end of T3, with a city hub and ability to prep, I had so much stuff that the last few missions were a joke.

 

That's the nub of the problem with equipment continuity. It means infinite equipment all the time, and every map would have to be designed around that. It would place huge constraints on mappers. Every outdoor wall in every map would have to be topped off with something that neither vines nor rope arrows will stick to, to stop the player getting out of the level geometry. No more decisions whether to use your last water arrows here or later, so every map would be limited to electric lights for the "front door" route, and every guard would need a gas mask.

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