No mods for thief 4 (and TDM gets mentioned at explosion.com)

[PPoe]

But competly untruth math.. If I like the game, I play it.. Then there is a dozen of new games I want to try and if DLC is released, I have no longer interest in the game. Unles there have been so many content from fans that the game becomed my passion, than Ill go for DLC immediately. I play the games that have fan content for years (Elder scrools, thief, diablo II etc..) and I forget about games I just completed and never played again, even if it was a grat fun (Far cry III for example).

[demagogue]

If by "untrue math" you mean it's not about you personally but faceless demographic statistic crunching then sure, the math doesn't tell you what your opinion or behavior is or should be, only how many units they can expect to sell. The fact you're playing games with fan content "for years" means nothing to the publishers since they don't see much more than a dime of that, so it doesn't change their behavior. The number of DLC units sold does, though, and since by your own admission you aren't buying, your opinion is already irrelevant to them.

 

I'm not saying a marketing perspective means anything to meaningful criticism of a game -- I'd fall back on oldschool art & lit criticism myself and concepts like authenticity and inner cohesiveness as an artistic work-- but it means a lot to how games are actually made and why editors & DLC are or are not released the way they are, which is what the question on the table was. I mean the thread topic is why won't we have FMs for T4, so that was one of my answers. Something has to explain it.

 

If someone thinks the economic incentives vis. a game editor and DLC works differently though I'm interested to hear them out.

[Goldwell]

I thought TDS did not support mods/fan missions either but there are plenty around.

 

I guess if the community really wants it they can make it happen themselves, I don't know how the TDS community did it but they did.

[New Horizon]

I thought TDS did not support mods/fan missions either but there are plenty around.

 

I guess if the community really wants it they can make it happen themselves, I don't know how the TDS community did it but they did.

 

Uhm, the TDS community did it because we begged Ion Storm to prepare the level editor for public release. So one guy worked on it in his spare time and they managed to release it before Ion Storm went out of business.

[Goldwell]

 

 

Uhm, the TDS community did it because we begged Ion Storm to prepare the level editor for public release. So one guy worked on it in his spare time and they managed to release it before Ion Storm went out of business.

 

Oh I see... Well hopefully EM does the right thing and gives us an editor! I think it would be fantastic if they did this and allowed you to share the maps through a built in online component but I guess that's just wishful thinking.

[New Horizon]

I'm doubtful. They are interested in DLC and in controlling the look and lore of their reboot.

[demagogue]

You know I think part of it is also -- like this whole console aesthetic in PC games -- it's like they don't want people to think of it as a coded game that was put together by a bunch of devs that might be tweaked or edited by the plebeians, but they have this very polished facade where everything appears to be done for the player and it's unimaginable you'd crack beneath that facade. It's the immediate message you get even from the way the opening menus and GUI and loading screens are handled.

 

It's the same thing with the way cars went from engines you could pop open & retool, and now you open a hood/ bonnet & it's a solid computerized casing that's untouchable by mere mortals. It's like editing a game is an admission that a game is constructed by humans & consumers might have some control or equal standing as the powers-that-be that are spoonfeeding us a "packaged entertainment" transaction.

 

There's something very anti-democratic about the whole thing to be honest.

[Obsttorte]

@demagogue: The problem is that you may be right and that the publishers really think that fan-made content would decrease their DLC sales. However, the question is: Is this really true? Just because some economics think so it hasn't be to. My personal opinion is that fan-made content would either not lower or even increase the DLC sales, as they cause a steady interest in the game.

 

But just because I think so it hasn't to be true.

[PPoe]

If by "untrue math" you mean it's not about you personally but faceless demographic statistic crunching then sure, the math doesn't tell you what your opinion or behavior is or should be, only how many units they can expect to sell. The fact you're playing games with fan content "for years" means nothing to the publishers since they don't see much more than a dime of that, so it doesn't change their behavior. The number of DLC units sold does, though, and since by your own admission you aren't buying, your opinion is already irrelevant to them.

 

I'm not saying a marketing perspective means anything to meaningful criticism of a game -- I'd fall back on oldschool art & lit criticism myself and concepts like authenticity and inner cohesiveness as an artistic work-- but it means a lot to how games are actually made and why editors & DLC are or are not released the way they are, which is what the question on the table was. I mean the thread topic is why won't we have FMs for T4, so that was one of my answers. Something has to explain it.

 

If someone thinks the economic incentives vis. a game editor and DLC works differently though I'm interested to hear them out.

 

What I meant: If I play the game for years, Im for sure buying the DLC.. But if I played the game once and uninstalled, than I wont instal it again just to try new DLC. So in my eyes the active comunity helps a lot with increasing the profit from DLC.

[demagogue]

Ah I see your point now. Well without numbers in front of us, we're all just speculating. I tend to think a lot of contemporary (younger) gamers aren't as conditioned to expect fan content, so official content is the only thing they look forward to and don't know better, and that suits the suits just fine. But I'm open to hear other paradigms.

 

What are some contemporary examples of a hybrid model with a lot of fan content & official DLC content by the way? Maybe Skyrim... Others? I wonder how it works out for them.

[Capela]

Im an older gamer, I play all most every game that they throw on me. DLC´s are a stupidity, why?..because its more of the same, and mods are something different. There is some houses that still provide an SDK, i hope they stiil around for some years. But one thing its for sure, if the game is good and no sdk, people will get a way around to mod it. My experience.

 

http://www.moddb.com/mods/circle-of-eight-modpack

[lost_soul]

I miss the days where game developers really listened to the fans. I'm refering to GTA Vice City/San Andreas. VC was great, but SA raised the bar on EVERY single level. They addressed all of our complaints about VC, implemented everything we asked for, and even more cool stuff to make SA one of the greatest games ever!

 

If the Thief fans say give us an editor, give us an editor. If the fans say give us massive places to explore, do it. Listening to the players is how you make a great game.

Edited June 16, 2013 by lost_soul

[Springheel]

But keep in mind, they're not making Thief for Thief fans alone. And the percentage of Thief fans who want an editor is even smaller.

[lowenz]

Hmm, you're not thinking like a marketing person though. The way they see it, there's X many hours a demographic is playing games, say 15 hours/week on average, and what % of that playing time is on content we generate? The more fan generated content there is, the more it eats into those 15 hrs/wk, the less is left over for DLC demand across the demographic. It's all brute math with them.

They need to change (and not abuse of math - or METH )