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Any plans to get the game on Steam ?


ObaniGarage
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Having a larger community comes with downsides of course. There is no guarantee that TDM would end up with a high rating on Steam, given the quality of feedback and comments that you often see on there.

  • i downloded this game it only has 3 misions wtf lol u guys are stoopid!!!!!
  • DoEsN'T WoRK On WInDOW XP
  • The player is far too weak and the weapons don't do any damage. I can't even win a 1-v-1 with a single enemy. Uninstalling this junk.
  • no proper campaign all the missions are completely different you people need to improve your quality control
  • The graphics look the same as the original Thief game. when are the graphics going to be improved? [someone actually posted that on our forum]
  • You should have warned me this mission was crap so I wouldn't waste my time playing it [someone posted that too]
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I already stated some of the above. Again, you don't want casuals playing this game, rating this game or tryibg to build maps for this game. There is no gain in my eyes except for popularity which doesn't necessarily mean good! popularity.
I don't understand what benefit is there. Players who are interested in Thief style old school gameplay already know TDM..

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"Einen giftigen Trank aus Kräutern und Wurzeln für die närrischen Städter wollen wir brauen." - Text aus einem verlassenen Heidenlager

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2 hours ago, OrbWeaver said:

Having a larger community comes with downsides of course. There is no guarantee that TDM would end up with a high rating on Steam, given the quality of feedback and comments that you often see on there.

  • i downloded this game it only has 3 misions wtf lol u guys are stoopid!!!!!
  • DoEsN'T WoRK On WInDOW XP
  • The player is far too weak and the weapons don't do any damage. I can't even win a 1-v-1 with a single enemy. Uninstalling this junk.
  • no proper campaign all the missions are completely different you people need to improve your quality control
  • The graphics look the same as the original Thief game. when are the graphics going to be improved? [someone actually posted that on our forum]
  • You should have warned me this mission was crap so I wouldn't waste my time playing it [someone posted that too]

One thing people need to understand is that practically speaking, TDM isn't so much a standalone game as it is a game development engine. I was thinking whether we should do more to label TheDarkMod as an engine, to make it clear it's a system designed for creators to make and run worlds built as single-player FPS missions.

On graphics I see little reason for anyone to complain: We have a realtime lighting system with shadows not boring old lightmaps, with beautiful normal maps for gorgeous lighting details on the little cracks and bumps. Some textures are a bit low-rest by today's standards, and fortunately there's already a HD pk4 maintained by some devs to fix that if your machine can handle it. Only thing I think needs to be added in that regard is Depth of Field, potentially also Motion Blur... wonder if I could ever attempt that one just for personal experience since I never did GLSL shaders before.

As far as people being warned about missions being crap: All I can see being improved there is a rating / review system for FM's so people can see how many stars they have... prolly not worth the effort to implement though, plus authors might feel bad when their mission gets a low rating. I admit I found a few missions that were pretty bad, I simply uninstalled them upon noticing that... the problem there is I can't hide them in the downloader when looking for new ones so I have to remember and tell myself "that's that FM I didn't want cuz it was simplistic or ugly, don't install it again".

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15 minutes ago, SeriousToni said:

I already stated some of the above. Again, you don't want casuals playing this game, rating this game or tryibg to build maps for this game. There is no gain in my eyes except for popularity which doesn't necessarily mean good! popularity.
I don't understand what benefit is there. Players who are interested in Thief style old school gameplay already know TDM..

And that's one reason why I love TDM: It's based on what games used to be in the late 90's, in the days of the first DeusEx or Unreal Tournament. We have modern graphics and quality assets unlike those times, but with the same raw gameplay based on feel and immersion rather than hand-holding and falsely trying to look cool. Players of AAA games nowadays are used to expecting boring coolness, games controlled and tailored to what gaming culture of the day wants, and told what they need to do every step of the way. I feel modern games are just poisonous consumer products which strayed 180* from what I once hoped virtual worlds would become... TDM doesn't do that thankfully, it stays true to what we should be using modern engines for :)

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On 8/26/2021 at 12:59 PM, MirceaKitsune said:

We have modern graphics and quality assets unlike those times, but with the same raw gameplay based on feel and immersion rather than hand-holding and falsely trying to look cool.

I actually experience TDMs stealth system as way more player friendly than what i see in AAA games. The light gem clearly communicates your visibility and surfaces looking silent are silent - while in other games stealth is more trial and error (and often light and sound are completely ignored).

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22 hours ago, Abusimplea said:

I actually experience TDMs stealth system as way more player friendly than what i see in AAA games. The light gem clearly communicates your visibility and surfaces looking silent are silent - while in other games stealth is more trial and error (and often light and sound are completely ignored).

We have to thank someone in the Thief team for that, can't remember who it was that came up with that idea.

In an interview I watched a long time ago the Thief team explained how at one point in development playing the game was really frustrating because the player sometimes got spotted when thinking they were hiding, and the devs didn't know what to do in order to communicate to the player how visible he/she was. They wanted to avoid view cones or other 'gamey' stuff, but couldn't think of anything and thought they were going to fail somehow. Until finally someone came up with the idea of the light gem, which is perfect. Keeps the immersion and communicates visibility. It's genius, really.

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The Dark Mod Database: https://tdmdb.com

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On 8/26/2021 at 9:49 AM, OrbWeaver said:
  • i downloded this game it only has 3 misions wtf lol u guys are stoopid!!!!!
  • DoEsN'T WoRK On WInDOW XP
  • The player is far too weak and the weapons don't do any damage. I can't even win a 1-v-1 with a single enemy. Uninstalling this junk.
  • no proper campaign all the missions are completely different you people need to improve your quality control
  • The graphics look the same as the original Thief game. when are the graphics going to be improved? [someone actually posted that on our forum]
  • You should have warned me this mission was crap so I wouldn't waste my time playing it [someone posted that too]

Extremely apt examples. 😆

One would wish for the old home computer or PC times back when the players still had to show a certain standard knowledge in order to be able to install and play games at all.

 

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2 hours ago, JackFarmer said:

One would wish for the old home computer or PC times back when the players still had to show a certain standard knowledge in order to be able to install and play games at all.

You don't and shouldn't need special knowledge to install a game. The game's installer or your repo's package manager installs the game adhering to the OS-specific standard where things go - and then the game just works™.

So if they would start ranting about problems running the game due to permission problems or the like - yep, that would indeed be TDMs fault (i believe, that sort of problems have been fixed with the new installer though).

And when it comes to actually playing the game...
Yes, they will rant and some will also troll - as they always do. It happens for all games in all genres on steam and everywhere else. Not a big deal if you don't need the game to be a financial success.

TDM isn't for everyone. But it isn't only for people older than X either. The playerbase isn't static. It ages as every human does. Some die. Some are newly born.
I expect there to be a lot of players already which just don't know, that a better version of the graphically badly aged thief series exists and comes with over hundred levels...

Somehoe this community just expects them to know - but most likely a lot of them don't, because TDM isn't mainstream and niche games in general are hard to find.
I stumbled upon most good stealth games around ten years after release. And i searched.
Some i still find only through GOG (like the Death to Spies series).

Maybe , bringing TDM to GOG would work too - as gamers there are less mainstream-AAA-centered.

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25 minutes ago, Abusimplea said:

You don't and shouldn't need special knowledge to install a game. The game's installer or your repo's package manager installs the game adhering to the OS-specific standard where things go - and then the game just works™.

That's not what I mean by that. Rather, I wanted to say that I had the impression that everything has just gotten much easier and that the appreciation for games has declined in general. However, we have had this topic here several times in the past.

30 minutes ago, Abusimplea said:

Yes, they will rant and some will also troll - as they always do. It happens for all games in all genres on steam and everywhere else. Not a big deal if you don't need the game to be a financial success.

The people here work on the mod for free in their spare time, and as far as I can tell, everyone is passionate about it. So I find it even worse when the work is mindlessly put down by whoever.

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3 hours ago, Abusimplea said:

Maybe , bringing TDM to GOG would work too - as gamers there are less mainstream-AAA-centered.

That might be an idea. GOG includes my Unofficial Patch with their Bloodlines version and the only thing they did was to test it. They never asked me to provide a juristical entity or guaranteeing all used assets, like e.g. the lost music I got from Rik Schaffer, were free. Sadly the contact I had there seems not to work for them anymore, but it might be worth a try...

Edited by wesp5
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Isn't GOG for commercially-released but old and abandoned games?

TDM is neither of those things, so I'm not sure it makes sense to approach GOG unless they are transitioning into a general platform for open source and indie games as well.

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12 hours ago, OrbWeaver said:

Isn't GOG for commercially-released but old and abandoned games?

OpenTTD is licensed under GPL v.2 and has not been commercially released.

Psychonauts 2 is a full-price title released last week.

They are just a normal game distribution site.
They no longer call themselves "Good old Games" - it is just "GOG" now...

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On 8/29/2021 at 11:18 PM, wesp5 said:

That might be an idea. GOG includes my Unofficial Patch with their Bloodlines version and the only thing they did was to test it. They never asked me to provide a juristical entity or guaranteeing all used assets, like e.g. the lost music I got from Rik Schaffer, were free. Sadly the contact I had there seems not to work for them anymore, but it might be worth a try...

IIRC GOG either gave us a flat no or didn't respond when we asked.

But your Bloodlines patch isn't really analogous since in technical terms it's going to be a Bloodlines mod, so it's all still under Bloodline's license. Troika is the legal entity that's controlling the IP and legally responsible for how it licenses mods. (And their response to the assets were them just the typical laziness towards mods. What matters isn't that part, but who they can counter-sue if somebody sues them ... and even then just as a formal matter. Evidently practically speaking they didn't see it as a risk. And even if Steam or GOG don't see TDM as a practical risk, I'm sure they don't, they still have to have that formality in place.) We can't do that since we cut the legal link to id when we went standalone.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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6 hours ago, demagogue said:

IIRC GOG either gave us a flat no or didn't respond when we asked.

 

 

Did they answer to team@thedarkmod.com ?

 

6 hours ago, demagogue said:

 

But your Bloodlines patch isn't really analogous since in technical terms it's going to be a Bloodlines mod, so it's all still under Bloodline's license. Troika is the legal entity that's controlling the IP and legally responsible for how it licenses mods. (And their response to the assets were them just the typical laziness towards mods. What matters isn't that part, but who they can counter-sue if somebody sues them ... and even then just as a formal matter. Evidently practically speaking they didn't see it as a risk. And even if Steam or GOG don't see TDM as a practical risk, I'm sure they don't, they still have to have that formality in place.) We can't do that since we cut the legal link to id when we went standalone.

 

Activision owns Bloodlines AFAIK.

The only problems I ever saw was when there was a group of modders who wanted to port Bloodlines from Source to Unity. In response, a cease and desist letter arrived from CCP Games: https://forums.planetvampire.com/project-vaulderie-general-discussion/cease-and-desist/?PHPSESSID=usbfbsfbo7ctsjhq55dm9pfrpu

But, I think that since 2013 when TDM went standalone, there should be some statutes of limitations. Is that valid for Canada in this field? May these provisions apply? https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/02l24

In any case, if anyone has any problem with any part of TDM's content, it will possibly have to be modified or removed to comply with the GOG and/or Steam version.

Edited by Anderson

"I really perceive that vanity about which most men merely prate — the vanity of the human or temporal life. I live continually in a reverie of the future. I have no faith in human perfectibility. I think that human exertion will have no appreciable effect upon humanity. Man is now only more active — not more happy — nor more wise, than he was 6000 years ago. The result will never vary — and to suppose that it will, is to suppose that the foregone man has lived in vain — that the foregone time is but the rudiment of the future — that the myriads who have perished have not been upon equal footing with ourselves — nor are we with our posterity. I cannot agree to lose sight of man the individual, in man the mass."...

- 2 July 1844 letter to James Russell Lowell from Edgar Allan Poe.

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