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(POLL) Normalised texel-scale when applying new textures?

(POLL) Normalised texel-scale when applying new textures?  

9 members have voted

  1. 1. Textures should be applied...

    • ...using previous texture-size
    • ...using universal texel-scale

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After some, let's say, 'lack of clarity' on the Bugtracker, I thought it might be productive to bring a poll to all the mappers here, to try to reach a consensus on the matter.  I left out the pretty obvious choice of "these should all be options" because I really want to know what each mapper actually wants the default behaviour to be.  Ideally, it would be optional.


To explain exactly what this means:-

This is how DarkRadiant post-2.20 (up until now) behaves, and for me personally, needing to press CTRL+N every time (unless the textures have the exact same sizes).  This would correspond to option 1.

This was the behaviour prior to 2.20, which is also for QERadiant, Q3Radiant, Doom3/Quake4, GtkRadiant, NetRadiant, etc.  This would correspond to option 2.


Bugtracker issue: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=5633


Edited by LDAsh
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Although I am not a mapper, I voted for option 1, as it is consistent with the way models are handled.

For models, each vertex stores uv coordinates for a texture. The uv coordinates are normalized to the texture, which means that the upper left corner of the texture is (0,0) and the lower right corner is (1,1), which is independent of the underlying texture resolution. This ensures that using a higher resolution version of the same texture will still look right.

Having this methodology also applied to brushes makes sense to me.

However, as already pointed out, I am not a mapper, and if this type of processing hinders the workflow of mappers, I guess an option should be implemented that enables users of DR to swap between these texture scaling methods.

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Hmm, so it's kinda like tile vs. clamp behavior for brushes?

When I make my tiling textures, I always have a certain pixel density in mind,  e.g. a 1024 px texture would cover a 128x128 DU plane, so my default texture scale in surface inspector is 0,125 (1:8). Would I like it to be used as default most of the time? Yeah, I guess so. Note that I work almost exclusively with my own assets, and I do have means to be fairly consistent with pixel density. Not sure how that relates to mapping with TDM stock textures and materials, which come in all different sizes.

That said, I don't think this will make me use the Natural option in Surface Inspector that less often. For example, as I line up different wall and floor brushes, I have to select them and use this option to align the tiling. I know that when you are creating brushes e.g. side by side, DR maintains the "continuity" of the tiling between them, but often I clone a brush from elsewhere and move it, so it has a different tiling anyway. So all in all I'd say that this isn't such a big deal in practice.

Edited by peter_spy
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If I'm understanding correctly, you're asking for DR to always apply a new texture with a scale derived from the new texture's image size, whereas currently it keeps the scale of the previous texture applied to the same face, which might be a different size?

This seems fairly reasonable to me, after all there is no particular reason why a previous texture should be considered an authority on the proper scale. But perhaps mappers sometimes like to carefully align a texture then experiment with several other textures (which might have different resolutions) without losing their alignment settings?

Perhaps the previous behaviour should be kept if the Texture Lock button is pressed, whereas the scale can be reset when new textures are applied with Texture Lock disabled?

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Perhaps I'll try to make this more clear with another example.


1. This is a 256x256 DU brush with 2048x2048 px texture applied using 0,125 scale. The texture tiles once as it should.



2. Here I selected the brush and then selected gen_dark_rusted01 from the texture browser. This material uses 512px textures. As you can see, it also tiles once.



3. When I select the brush and click Natural, this happens:


I think that LDash argues that this^ should be a default behavior when applying another material, and not what happened in the 2nd image. I'd expect that kind of consistency too, as I set this option in DR preferences:


But again, I think more mappers should speak up.

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It can get irritating that there are differences in resolutions of texture images, making switching between them require rescaling afterwards. This is especially apparent with sliptip's high-resolution wall textures, where a scale of 0.125 looks natural, while for most other walls it's best around 0.500.

  • Like 1
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28 minutes ago, peter_spy said:

3. When I select the brush and click Natural, this happens:

It's also worth mentioning that when you switch from this^ 512px material with 0,125 scale applied back to 2048px, this happens:


So DR is really inconsistent when it comes to switching between materials with different texture sizes, within the same texture scale.

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Does TDM "suffer" an inconsistency with texture sizes, and this is what has driven DR to handle the default behaviour of apply textures so differently from ALL other Radiants?


Also, only votes from this community?...  I know where 2 of the votes came from and one of them was mine.

(*apparently my mapper-buddy whom I asked to vote here, 'accidentally' voted for option 1, heheh)

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