[Feature Proposal] Frob to Use World Item

[chakkman]

12 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

Ok the candles work well and I think I can get used to them.

However, when long pressing a body to manipulate the limbs, you have to continuously hold down frob button.

Hmm... I haven't tried it, but, shouldn't it be short click to grab the body/limbs?

[AluminumHaste]

Well a short click picks the body back up on your shoulders. So it should be a long press to "grab" the joint/limb just like picking up a candle. However, I have to continuously hold "frob" to not let go of the joint/limb.

[chakkman]

And I thought the idea was short click to frob, long click to lift the body.

Edited September 16, 2023 by chakkman

[AluminumHaste]

Nope, quick click "Frob" to shoulder body.

[chakkman]

That makes no sense at all to me.

How does it work with candles? Short click picks them up, and long click douses them? Or also the other way around?

Edit: Nevermind, I just read the OP again, and, it seems to work as intended. Doesn't really make sense to me that way, as I would have guessed it was the other way around, but, whatever.

It would be less of a change if a short click still did what a short click did before, but, a long press would replace the two key necessity. At least that makes more sense to me. Don't know how you see it. Maybe there's something I'm missing.

Edited September 16, 2023 by chakkman

[wesp5]

33 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

Also, you Frob to pick up the body, but you Use key to drop the body.

That is counterintuitive and as hard to learn as the original mechanism...

[chakkman]

Yeah. I would expect the same mouse click to drop the body then.

This is how I imagined this to work: Short click to frob, long click to frob and use. And also long click to drop the body, if you're carrying one.

Edited September 16, 2023 by chakkman

[Wellingtoncrab]

12 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

That is counterintuitive and as hard to learn as the original mechanism...

Unlike Thief, The Dark Mod allows you to interact with things like doors/switches when you are shouldering a body. So there needs to be an input to do this, so I see why this is preserved.

Playing the patch I do agree my thief muscle memory kicked in almost immediately and I kept expecting frob to the drop the body. Not sure what a good solution is in this case.

Dropping a body is the primary action when shouldering it, so maybe it should be inverted (frob drops body, "use-item" allows world interaction when carrying body)

Not sure if this will also be confusing.

 

Edited September 16, 2023 by Wellingtoncrab

[chakkman]

6 minutes ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

Unlike Thief, The Dark Mod allows you to interact with things like doors/switches when you are shouldering a body. So there needs to be an input to do this, so I see why this is preserved.

I don't know if there are technical issues with it, but, that would work if frob would still be a short click, and frob and use (or just use, in case of dropping the body) the long click, as I mentioned above.

Edited September 16, 2023 by chakkman

[Wellingtoncrab]

33 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

Well a short click picks the body back up on your shoulders. So it should be a long press to "grab" the joint/limb just like picking up a candle. However, I have to continuously hold "frob" to not let go of the joint/limb.

I think personally I prefer this to requiring another input to stop dragging - at least in the usual loop of shouldering a body to move it roughly where it needs to go and then using manipulate to tuck it in. 

The click and release made it very quick to move individual limbs.

But yeah like lots of these types of things a "toggle" mode should be an option

[Daft Mugi]

I'll repeat some things from my original post.

1. To drop a body, there are two keybindings "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item". Flash bombs are thrown with the "Use Inv. Item" key. These keybindings are TDM consistent. But I agree it would feel better if it were frob to drop.
2. While shouldering a body, it is possible to frob a door to open/close it. So, frobbing cannot also be used to drop the body. (Perhaps the code can be changed to check if a door is not highlighted and then drop the body, but I'm not sure how much of a rabbit hole that will be or if it will not be buggy yet.)
3. The "hold" to drag and "let go" to drop limb was a design decision. Personally, I've accidentally walked away from a body while unintentionally dragging it too many times, so I made that highly unlikely now. It also feels better to me, like I'm actually moving something and letting go. It can be easily changed back, but I find click to drag and click again to drop to be cumbersome and found that frustrating when I was a new player.

[AluminumHaste]

3 minutes ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

I think personally I prefer this to requiring another input to stop dragging - at least in the usual loop of shouldering a body to move it roughly where it needs to go and then using manipulate to tuck it in. 

The click and release made it very quick to move individual limbs.

But yeah like lots of these types of things a "toggle" mode should be an option

True, however, you can push limbs away from you, or pull them closer with the scroll wheel.

Doing that while holding down the right mouse button was very painful.

[Daft Mugi]

Just now, AluminumHaste said:

True, however, you can push limbs away from you, or pull them closer with the scroll wheel.

Doing that while holding down the right mouse button was very painful.

I've never done that with limbs, just items. Do you regularly do that? Does anyone?

[AluminumHaste]

Yes, allll the time. Have you ever shoved a body under a table/bed/shelf to hide it? You can't really do it without scroll wheel.

It works with ANYTHING in the grabber.

[Daft Mugi]

Just now, AluminumHaste said:

Yes, allll the time. Have you ever shoved a body under a table/bed/shelf to hide it? You can't really do it without scroll wheel.

It works with ANYTHING in the grabber.

Well... well... you ruined my plans!

Uhh... there could be a cvar for you? What's a good solution for this?

[AluminumHaste]

Not sure lol

[Daft Mugi]

I'll make a cvar for key down to drag and key up to drop. That way @AluminumHaste can have the original behavior.

I think the new default should be key down to drag body (limb) and key up to drop body (limb), though, as that would provide a better experience for new players.

Does anyone else here use the mouse wheel to push/pull body limbs?

[Daft Mugi]

Now, I'm going to explore dropping a body when a door or switch is not highlighted.

Hopefully, it won't be a rabbit hole.

Wish me luck!

[Daft Mugi]

@AluminumHaste

I've updated the patch (same link as before):
https://gist.github.com/daftmugi/41d0324107e8734f364bb3e50ff00794

Added "tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior" cvar:

"tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior", default:"1"                                                     
Which drag body behavior?                                                                                
  1 --- on frob key up, drop body (limb).
  0 --- on second frob, drop body (limb), TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior.

Added drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc.
(Not thoroughly tested, but it seems to be working as intended.)

Could you please update the build?

[AluminumHaste]

Weird, when I tried applying the patch, 2 items failed.

SysCvar.cpp and Player.cpp.

 

Says rejected patch hunks

 

 

[AluminumHaste]

NM, I undid the previous patch and applied the new patch.

[AluminumHaste]

21 minutes ago, Daft Mugi said:

@AluminumHaste

I've updated the patch (same link as before):
https://gist.github.com/daftmugi/41d0324107e8734f364bb3e50ff00794

Added "tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior" cvar:

"tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior", default:"1"                                                     
Which drag body behavior?                                                                                
  1 --- on frob key up, drop body (limb).
  0 --- on second frob, drop body (limb), TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior.

Added drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc.
(Not thoroughly tested, but it seems to be working as intended.)

Could you please update the build?

 

New Binary: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L0GmR5Jn79mGDWXNLzP4bsGzRo-Wnp0j/view?usp=sharing

 

[Wellingtoncrab]

It is still requiring "use-item" to drop the body with the new binary on my end.

Ah - nevermind - chrome's new bullshit download manager wasn't actually overwriting the executable

Edited September 16, 2023 by Wellingtoncrab

[AluminumHaste]

Ok......don't be mad but;........I tried a bit more with scrolling while holding down the button and it's fine.

[Daft Mugi]

2 minutes ago, Wellingtoncrab said:

It is still requiring "use-item" to drop the body with the new binary on my end.

That shouldn't be the case. I wonder if it is the right binary?

1 minute ago, AluminumHaste said:

Ok......don't be mad but;........I tried a bit more with scrolling while holding down the button and it's fine.

lol. No worries. So, are you saying I can remove the cvar?