[Feature Proposal] Frob to Use World Item

[wesp5]

I get a black screen with the latest executable. Do we need the last release candidate for this to work? I am still on 2.11...

[Daft Mugi]

55 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

New Binaries: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L0GmR5Jn79mGDWXNLzP4bsGzRo-Wnp0j/view?usp=sharing

@AluminumHaste Thank you so much for making these builds. It's been really helpful!

[Daft Mugi]

3 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

I get a black screen with the latest executable. Do we need the last release candidate for this to work? I am still on 2.11...

1. Install TDM v2.12 (dev16818-10434).
2. Copy the TheDarkModx64.exe binary that AluminumHaste released to your dev16818-10434 directory.

[AluminumHaste]

17 minutes ago, wesp5 said:

I get a black screen with the latest executable. Do we need the last release candidate for this to work? I am still on 2.11...

Yeah, you need to be on 2.12 beta for this to work.

 

[nbohr1more]

@Daft Mugi  I tested it out.

I think it's fine to merge this change but I feel that there is one issue here.

It establishes the protocol of frob to extinguish but once you are holding an object you may wish to extinguish the held object and your muscle memory will tell you to hold frob again which will instantly drop the item instead.

I am not sure but perhaps only a quick frob should drop the held item whereas a long frob should also act like use on the held item?

[wesp5]

7 hours ago, nbohr1more said:

I am not sure but perhaps only a quick frob should drop the held item whereas a long frob should also act like use on the held item?

That's what I and others were suggesting, the advanced feature (shouldering/extinguishing) should be bound to the new control (long frob).

Edited September 20, 2023 by wesp5

[Daft Mugi]

On 9/19/2023 at 7:44 PM, nbohr1more said:

It establishes the protocol of frob to extinguish but once you are holding an object you may wish to extinguish the held object and your muscle memory will tell you to hold frob again which will instantly drop the item instead.

I am not sure but perhaps only a quick frob should drop the held item whereas a long frob should also act like use on the held item?

I coded this up tonight to try out the idea. I think you're right. It does feel better and more consistent.

• Candle/Lantern (in world, not picked up)
  • Quick-press frob to pick up.
  • Long-press frob to extinguish (or toggle on/off).
• Candle/Lantern (in hands, already picked up)
  • Quick-press frob to drop.
  • Long-press frob to extinguish (or toggle on/off).

I'll do a bit more testing tomorrow, and if all goes well, I'll update the patch.

[datiswous]

Where is the Linux build?

Never mind, I used the one from the lean thread.

I like how it works.

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by datiswous

[Daft Mugi]

21 hours ago, Daft Mugi said:

• Candle/Lantern (in world, not picked up)
  • Quick-press frob to pick up.
  • Long-press frob to extinguish (or toggle on/off).
• Candle/Lantern (in hands, already picked up)
  • Quick-press frob to drop.
  • Long-press frob to extinguish (or toggle on/off).

I updated the patch to reflect these changes. Also, I did a major refactoring of the (patch) code, cleaning it up.

Ubuntu/Linux build:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kUZtQrkAQpPHVRUX_JrhxSeWkzZX8P4D/view?usp=sharing

[wesp5]

Do you have a Windows build too? Also how are chances this ends up in the core game? Did you talk to the team yet?

[Daft Mugi]

7 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Do you have a Windows build too?

Unfortunately, I don't have a Windows machine to make a build.

7 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Also how are chances this ends up in the core game?

I'm wondering the same thing.

7 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Did you talk to the team yet?

Yes, discussion has been ongoing. There is an internal thread for this.

[Daft Mugi]

17 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Do you have a Windows build too? Also how are chances this ends up in the core game? Did you talk to the team yet?

Here's a Windows build that @Wellingtoncrab made that includes both the frob and lean patches.

[nbohr1more]

I definitely like the quick frob = drop mechanic.

What I do not like is the lightning fast shouldering.

The team did a lot of work to make shouldering bodies feel substantial and now the body is just instantly going from floor to shoulder which is very gamey or cartoonish.

[Daft Mugi]

32 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:

What I do not like is the lightning fast shouldering.

The team did a lot of work to make shouldering bodies feel substantial and now the body is just instantly going from floor to shoulder which is very gamey or cartoonish.

I'm not sure what you are referring to. The animation and timing are identical to TDM 2.11. It should look no different than a "Frob/Interact" followed by a quick "Use Inv. Item" in TDM 2.11.

Could you please explain a bit more?

[nbohr1more]

12 hours ago, Daft Mugi said:

I'm not sure what you are referring to. The animation and timing are identical to TDM 2.11. It should look no different than a "Frob/Interact" followed by a quick "Use Inv. Item" in TDM 2.11.

Could you please explain a bit more?

The Dark Mod 2.08  https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=3607

Beta Testing Thread:

Perhaps the shouldering animation is broken if the executable is used with the latest SVN assets?

[Daft Mugi]

20 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:

The Dark Mod 2.08  https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=3607

3607: Add dip to shouldering bodies
"When the player shoulders a body, a short rotation down of the POV, to simulate bending to pick up."

20 minutes ago, nbohr1more said:

Perhaps the shouldering animation is broken if the executable is used with the latest SVN assets?

Based on the 3607 description, it looks like the animation is as intended -- at least on my machine.

 

[wesp5]

I just tested the Windows version that was uploaded on the latest 1.12 rc, but I get confusing results. Like when I frob a candle with holder, short frob will take it and long frob will extinguish it. When frobing a body it's the other way around though, short frob will shoulder it and long frob will take it. Short frob on the latter also gives the impression that the body is shouldered very quickly! I suggest to swap this and fix both issues in one go.

Edited September 23, 2023 by wesp5

[Daft Mugi]

3 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Like when I frob a candle with holder, short frob will take it and long frob will extinguish it. When frobing a body it's the other way around though, short frob will shoulder it and long frob will take it. Short frob on the latter also gives the impression that the body is shouldered very quickly! I suggest to swap this and fix both issues in one go.

The thinking behind the current design is as follows:

• Quick-press frob
  • Pick up body and shoulder it (carry it)
  • Pick up candle/lantern and carry it
  • Pick up an item and carry it
• Long-press frob (for special action)
  • Drag body or body limbs
  • Pinch out candle
  • Toggle lantern off/on

If you are dragging a body, you cannot run off with it. It'll automatically get dropped at some point. So, shouldering a body and carrying a candle are almost the same.

Dragging a body, pinching out a candle, and toggling a lantern off/on are all special actions specific to each of them.

3 hours ago, wesp5 said:

Short frob on the latter also gives the impression that the body is shouldered very quickly!

The timing and animation are identical to TDM 2.11, especially since my patch does not touch that code at all. The only difference is that it is less cumbersome to perform the shoulder action with a single key press rather than two key presses. Yes, it is quicker for the player to perform the action, but the game itself is not acting any quicker.

The goal of this proposal and patch is to make these actions less cumbersome for the player to perform.

Perhaps play the game a bit more to give your brain some time to rewire itself to the new controls. If you're still not satisfied, you can set the cvar to use TDM 2.11 behavior.

tdm_frobhold_delay 0

[wesp5]

3 hours ago, Daft Mugi said:

So, shouldering a body and carrying a candle are almost the same.

I see this differently: When you short frob a candle, you can move it in the world. Then you do the special operation, long frob or use, to extinguish it. With a body it was the same: When you short frob it, you can move it in the world. Then you do the special operation, long frob or use, to shoulder it. Your current solution is counterintuitive to that and it also looks much too fast because of this! Can you add a variable to turn that behaviour around? Or could this be done by editing a script or something? Also wasn't long frob supposed to be used to unshoulder a body now, which again is counterintuitive to the short frob shouldering behaviour?

Edited September 23, 2023 by wesp5

[Daft Mugi]

To clarify the current design:

• Quick-press frob
  • Pick up body and shoulder it (carry it) / Drop body
  • Pick up candle/lantern and carry it / Drop candle/lantern
  • Pick up an item and carry it / Drop item
• Long-press frob (for special action)
  • Drag body or body limbs
  • Pinch out candle (also, pinch out candle while carrying it)
  • Toggle lantern off/on (also, toggle lantern while carrying it)

To restore TDM 2.11 (and prior) behavior, set the following.

tdm_frobhold_delay 0

[Daft Mugi]

1 hour ago, wesp5 said:

Can you add a variable to turn that behaviour around?

For shouldering a body, that would not be simple to add.

1 hour ago, wesp5 said:

Also wasn't long frob supposed to be used to unshoulder a body now, which again is counterintuitive to the short frob shouldering behaviour?

Please see the clarification in the post above. Currently, quick-press frob unshoulders a body.

[wesp5]

13 hours ago, Daft Mugi said:

Please see the clarification in the post above. Currently, quick-press frob unshoulders a body.

So what happens if you frob something while carrying a body? Isn't the body dropped then and the solution suggested to avoid this was to only do the shouldering/unshouldering with long frob? What if I want to take a key or something else from a body and accidentally frob the body itself? It will be shouldered at once which I don't think is the optimal solution.

Edited September 24, 2023 by wesp5

[AluminumHaste]

No because you can do that right now with doors, and if the door is highlighted, then pressing frob activates the door.

And if you pick up a body, by default you loot everything automatically. That's how it works right now on current SVN.

[stgatilov]

It feels uncomfortable that two entirely different actions are done depending on how long I hold the button.
This is not even a widespread UI design.

Why not double-click instead?

Suppose something like that:

• Single-click body to grab/ungrab it
• Double-click body to shoulder it
• Single-click candle to grab/ungrab it
• Double-click candle to extinguish it

This even satisfies the sanity condition that double-click action should include the single-click action:

• When double-clicking body: first click -> grab it, second click -> shoulder it.
• When double-clicking candle: first click -> grab it, second click -> extinguish and ungrab it.

Isn't it better in all regards?

[wesp5]

11 minutes ago, stgatilov said:

Why not double-click instead?

I like your idea, but I have not bound Frob to the mouse, so you mean single frob vs double frob, yes?