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Being caught on the street


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I'm not sure if this has been discussed before... I've just searched the forums but couldn't find any information about it (probably because I'm not sure what words to search for).

 

I'll try to explain:

In Thief3, you could wander around in the city, without people yelling ooooh, thief, because you're just a passenger pedestrian, and there's nothing that makes people think you're a thief. Apart from those who know who you are...

This is what I really liked in Thief3... and if I remember it correctly, it wasn't the really case in Thief 1&2 (or at least it didn't really stand out as much as in Thief3).

 

Also, it's funny how your own footsteps are "triggered" (people will come and take a look), and footsteps of a guard ain't.

 

You probably know where I'm going to: how will others know you're thief and not just a regular guy, servant or guard?

I recently saw a trailer of

, and I immediately thought of Thief. Of course the game is a lot different, but the interaction with the crowd is a bit similar. Hitman also had some interesting ideas: the less you act like a regular guy, the more people will find you suspicious.

 

I'm just wondering how this will be done in the Dark Mod :)

Of course, most of this will apply to what's going on in the streets, and not really the mission itself.

Edited by bvanaerde
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In Thief3, you could wander around in the city, without people yelling ooooh, thief, because you're just a passenger, and there's nothing that makes people think you're a thief. Apart from those who know who you are...

 

And of course those who read the wallhangings with your image. :)

 

You probably know where I'm going to: how will others know you're thief and not just a regular guy, servant or guard?

 

By reading the announcements on the street. On the other hand, how did thy get that image in the first place? :P

 

Hitman also had some interesting ideas: the less you act like a regular guy, the more people will find you suspicious.

 

Which is definitely the best approach.

Gerhard

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I doubt that TDM will have that sort of AI programmed into it initially, but I'm sure through scripting you could set this up.

 

For my streets level I'm just going to say (If I ever take it to completion) "There is a curfew, no-one should be out except guards".

 

I believe it wouldn't be too hard to bung in some other shifty charecters who would be classed as enemy by the police so would get killed. Hopefully this wouldn't mean the police would then be on the lookout for you, though I don't know.

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You probably know where I'm going to: how will others know you're thief and not just a regular guy, servant or guard?

 

Because you look like this:

 

thief4.jpg

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Because you look like this: ...

I was hoping he'd wear his robe in the sequel... there have been so many complaints about the cap thingie :laugh:

A true thief never reveals himself...

 

edit: and yeah, pedestrian is the word I was looking for.

Edited by bvanaerde
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For my streets level I'm just going to say (If I ever take it to completion) "There is a curfew, no-one should be out except guards".

same. The city was evacuated, and the guards, mostly under the control of the corrupt local minister and less under the emperor kill anyone on sight. (Not the same country at the City).

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I honestly love the way Bafford's mission does it, and I can't say how it is done, but it seemed simple enough.

IIRC they made it with a small stim combo. The outside guards belonged to your "team", but if they received damage, the team variable would be reset to default (hostile) by removing the metaproperty with the "good team" property.

 

I haven't looked into it, nor am I very savvy with our own stim system, but with the level of accessability the D3 engine offers, I would think a similar setup should be possible in TDM. I guess it could be done even more dynamic with a script.

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That's a good point though. In the Thief universe, one of the strong visual points was the costumes of the various character types. A thief was instantly identified by his clothing, and even if the town guard does nothing the least I'd expect would be for them to enter into a suspicious alert state as long as a thief dressed in kind remains within their visual field.

 

Hopefully NH will record some taunts or threats that the town guard AI's can direct at the player character ;)

Loose BOWELS are the first sign of THE CHOLERA MORBUS!
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We're hoping to do some sort of system where there are various levels of security for various AI teams in various locations. But as you can see from all the uses of "various" in that sentence, it can get complicated, so no promises. :)

 

E.g., there might be some areas where the player is allowed to travel through, but if they initiate any combat, they'll be attacked. There might be some "border" areas where the guards give you a warning and give you some time to go back into the public area before they attack you.

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The Bafford front gate guards thing was done with a metaproperty that made AI disregard the player's team unless alerted or you entered the yard. The same was done in other T2 OMs and in part 1 of my own Nightwatch FM where the player is undercover working for the enemy. Arming the bow or raising a sword would automatically remove the metaproperty and it was business as usual! You could also turn it off with any other trigger, eg, a stim or room script so if the player went into a banned area then watch out. Mixed with that could be ordinary guards in other areas who didn't have the metaprop so the player could wander freely in some areas but had to use stealth elsewhere.

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But the Bafford front gate guards also gave you a warning, and if you just stuck around they would start attacking after a bit whether you had drawn a weapon or not, so there was something timed as well.

shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif
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Yes, that's true. Once the metaprop is in place you can add little extras. I had a guard who was guarding the entrance to some stairs. If you saw you passing by in the corridor or looking in the door he would come out and warn you. If you went inside a stim response removed the metaprop and he would attack. He would also attack if you did anything threatening anyway. I had another guard similarly would let you pass if you were walking with someone but attack if he saw you carrying her; he called out 'murder!' Fun with guards eh? :laugh:

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On the average city streets, among other normal town people, in the dark,in which one only can identify a face a few meters away, a thief should not arouse suspicion, if he walks with some distance to others.

On a more or less crowded street people don't care for other people who don't behave odd.

 

I think as long as you don't climb on buildings for others to see, run, creep, have a weapon drawn etc. one should be able to move freely in public places.

If the thief has to have a suspicious hood - well, in poor light and on a distance it's hard to tell if this is a suspicious hood or a ordinary hat of some kind. Townsfolk/City Watch should only be able to identify you if they are closing in too much. If the thief doesn't come near them (maybe 5 meters) they shouldn't react.

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato

"When outmatched... cheat."— Batman

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Lots of people wore hoods in medieval times, perhaps we should have some hooded folks on the streets other than the player.

shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif
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I've already made a hood model that can be attached to AI. :)

 

My earlier comment was a bit of a joke. Obviously, in a game where you can't communicate with AI, their ability to determine who you are has to be pretty simplistic.

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Realistically, while walking the streets Gareth would just stow his equipment, throw his hood back, and look like any other random mercenary.

 

Speaking of which, are there plans for modeling non-armored combatants? Street thugs, soldiers, that sort of thing?

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