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demagogue
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The ignore feature is really funny. It is as if you were talking with a ghost. (A really annoying ghost :D )

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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9 minutes ago, Nort said:

I give up trying to reason with you guys. Whatever your problem is, I'm just going to accept it. Just keep doing what you're doing.

They don't have a problem - you do.

However, you are doing something about it with your patches, which is great. If you see something that's broken, either raise a bug report or fix it yourself.  That's how this stuff works and it's not any more complicated than that.  The rants, while entertaining at best and insulting at worst, are unnecessary.

Stick around and help make things better - we need people that care, and you obviously do.  Just don't make it difficult for yourself by being abrasive with the community.  And I don't buy the whole 'I'm bad at dealing with people' excuse - it's BS.  Make an effort.

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2 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

They don't have a problem - you do.

However, you are doing something about it with your patches, which is great. If you see something that's broken, either raise a bug report or fix it yourself.  That's how this stuff works and it's not any more complicated than that.  The rants, while entertaining at best and insulting at worst, are unnecessary.

Stick around and help make things better - we need people that care, and you obviously do.  Just don't make it difficult for yourself by being abrasive with the community.  And I don't buy the whole 'I'm bad at dealing with people' excuse - it's BS.  Make an effort.

I am making an effort. I am telling you to test your stuff so that I don't have to clean up after you as if I was your mom. ...and the rest is really up to you, and so it's your problem now. ...and I've told you this now, multiple times, and if you don't get it by now, then you're just never going to get it, and so I give up. I not only give up trying to reason with you, but I also give up releasing any more of my patches to you, because apparently you see that as me taking on your responsibilities, and that's the opposite of what I wanted. If all that you gather from my posts, is that "I'm being insulting and abrasive", then I just can't reach you.

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14 minutes ago, Nort said:

I am making an effort. I am telling you to test your stuff so that I don't have to clean up after you as if I was your mom. ...and the rest is really up to you, and so it's your problem now. ...and I've told you this now, multiple times, and if you don't get it by now, then you're just never going to get it, and so I give up. I not only give up trying to reason with you, but I also give up releasing any more of my patches to you, because apparently you see that as me taking on your responsibilities, and that's the opposite of what I wanted. If all that you gather from my posts, is that "I'm being insulting and abrasive", then I just can't reach you.

I guess I don't really know what you are expecting people to do.  Do you expect that all of sudden everyone will start raising bug reports and start fixing them all immediately, because you said so?  Do you expect people to say 'Yes Nort, you're right, we'll get right on that'?  That's what it sounds like to me.

And now you've decided to give up, because you aren't getting the reaction you expected?  How is that going to help?  Why not set an example and just carry on doing what you're doing?  Maybe someone will find it inspiring?  Make the fixes, publish your findings here and maybe someone else will go 'oh that's how it's done, maybe I will do some myself...'

I don't think anyone disagrees with what you are saying regarding the quality of the game - we all know there are issues.  What everyone's saying is it's not going to get fixed immediately because you demand it.

I get the feeling you don't really understand how open source works.  Anyone can contribute.  Now if you find that people aren't helping you make your contributions, feel free to rant about that 🙂

Edited by Frost_Salamander
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1 minute ago, Frost_Salamander said:

I guess I don't really know what you are expecting people to do.  Do you expect that all of sudden everyone will start raising bug reports and start fixing them all immediately, because you said so?  Do you expect people to say 'Yes Nort, you're right, we'll get right on that'?  That's what it sounds like to me.

And now you've decided to give up, because you aren't getting the reaction you expected?  How is that going to help?  Why not set an example and just carry on doing what you're doing?  Maybe someone will find it inspiring?  Make the fixes, publish your findings here and maybe someone else will go 'oh that's how it's done, maybe I will do some myself...'

I don't think anyone disagrees with what you are saying regarding the quality of the game - we all know there are issues.  What everyone's saying is it's not going to get fixed immediately because you demand it.

I get the feeling you don't really understand how open source works.  Anyone can contribute.  Now if you find that people aren't helping you make your contributions, feel free to rant about that 🙂

I'm expecting you to check if your work breaks stuff before you upload it, at the very least. That's what normal, responsible people do, in real life. It's not about fixing the current issues, as much as it is not creating new ones through neglect. My fixes aren't magical. They take time and effort to do, and take away time that I'd much rather spend on the mapping that I came here to do, and they aren't even proper fixes half of the time. ...and no matter how many things I fix, this project will be doomed anyway, if people keep on shrugging at if they create console warnings for people.

Enabling the console in the config, and beginning to use it, that's something that you can start doing immediately. You don't have to bother with other's issues, but do mind any issues which you've created yourself, because you are the most qualified person to fix those issues. Do not commit broken, unfinished things - that's not a good contribution to a project.

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14 minutes ago, Nort said:

I'm expecting you to check if your work breaks stuff before you upload it, at the very least. That's what normal, responsible people do, in real life. It's not about fixing the current issues, as much as it is not creating new ones through neglect. My fixes aren't magical. They take time and effort to do, and take away time that I'd much rather spend on the mapping that I came here to do, and they aren't even proper fixes half of the time. ...and no matter how many things I fix, this project will be doomed anyway, if people keep on shrugging at if they create console warnings for people.

Enabling the console in the config, and beginning to use it, that's something that you can start doing immediately. You don't have to bother with other's issues, but do mind any issues which you've created yourself, because you are the most qualified person to fix those issues. Do not commit broken, unfinished things - that's not a good contribution to a project.

Of course, and you've made your point.  But you're not stopping your patch contributions because nobody's listening, but because you would rather be doing something else, just like others have said they are doing. I happen to agree with a lot of what you are saying. It's irksome, but then I remind myself that this is a project that people do for fun and personal satisfaction, and not everyone gets off on doing QA fixes.  Or I could get off my ass and fix it myself instead of complaining.

Maybe some mappers don't know how to get rid of the console warnings? Have you written a Wiki article on how to get rid of them?  Maybe the next time someone announces they need beta testers for their map, you can volunteer and point out any issues?  Write a document outlining a QA process for map releases and suggest it gets followed? I don't know - think of ways to be constructive instead of just ranting.

And the project isn't 'doomed', it's been around for like 12 years and still going strong.

Edited by Frost_Salamander
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1 minute ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Of course, and you've made your point.  But you're not stopping your patch contributions because nobody's listening, but because you would rather be doing something else, just like others have said they are doing. I happen to agree with a lot of what you are saying. It's irksome, but then I remind myself that this is a project that people do for fun and personal satisfaction, and not everyone gets off on doing QA fixes.

Maybe some mappers don't know how to get rid of the console warnings? Have you written a Wiki article on how to get rid of them?  Maybe the next time someone announces they need beta testers for their map, you can volunteer and point out any issues?  Write a document outlining a QA process for map releases and suggest it gets followed? I don't know - think of ways to be constructive instead of just ranting.

And the project isn't 'doomed', it's been around for like 12 years and still going strong.

My patches aren't normal contributions. They're temporary bandaids. I'm stopping them both because I'd rather be doing something else and because nobody's listening. It's not something I like doing. It's just something that's necessary for me to enjoy mapping. I'd like to be able to go to the console to see if my mapping works. ...but I can't do that if there are huge red console warnings cluttering up the page.

I feel like knowing how to verify things in the console, should be part of the contribution process. If you don't know how to even do that, then don't contribute. That's why I don't start committing to github and call myself a dev: Because I don't yet know all the basic dev stuff, and I don't pretend that I do.

...and I don't want to start working on the wiki, because wiki work really scares me. I have worked on a wiki before, for a year or two, and I ended up getting so overheaped with work that I left that wiki in a worse mess than I started with. I took on maybe fifty tasks and just broke mentally. ...so I can't do that. You do it. I'm staying clear of the Dark Mod wiki no matter how many crazy things I see there.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Nort said:

 Because I don't yet know all the basic dev stuff, and I don't pretend that I do.

Well this is probably how all these problems you don't like all started - other contributors were in the same boat. And whether you like it or not, I think some of your patches got committed, so you are a dev 🙂.

4 minutes ago, Nort said:

...and I don't want to start working on the wiki, because wiki work really scares me. I have worked on a wiki before, for a year or two, and I ended up getting so overheaped with work that I left that wiki in a worse mess than I started with. I took on maybe fifty tasks and just broke mentally. ...so I can't do that. You do it. I'm staying clear of the Dark Mod wiki no matter how many crazy things I see there.

Fair enough 😂, although I wish you would reconsider.  It definitely has problems.  If you think you have something valuable to add, I'm happy to do it for you, even if it's just on my home page for now so it doesn't get lost.  Getting access to the Wiki isn't straightforward either.

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3 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Well this is probably how all these problems you don't like all started - other contributors were in the same boat. And whether you like it or not, I think some of your patches got committed, so you are a dev 🙂.

Fair enough 😂, although I wish you would reconsider.  It definitely has problems.  If you think you have something valuable to add, I'm happy to do it for you, even if it's just on my home page for now so it doesn't get lost.  Getting access to the Wiki isn't straightforward either.

Yeah, some of my patches are actually "feature-complete", but others - like the mage legs - just look ridiculous.

 

"Getting access to the Wiki isn't straightforward either."

Oh, so the wiki isn't something that "anyone can contribute to"? The wiki that's just full of spelling errors and greetings to other contributors and just triplets of obsolete tutorials... This made me clutch my head and yell. In any case, I refuse to deal with it. I've actually written my very own Dark Mod manual, and that's the only thing I need to consult, and it took a couple of weeks to write it, but I'm glad I did.

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2 minutes ago, Nort said:

Yeah, some of my patches are actually "feature-complete", but others - like the mage legs - just look ridiculous.

 

"Getting access to the Wiki isn't straightforward either."

Oh, so the wiki isn't something that "anyone can contribute to"? The wiki that's just full of spelling errors and greetings to other contributors and just triplets of obsolete tutorials... This made me clutch my head and yell. In any case, I refuse to deal with it. I've actually written my very own Dark Mod manual, and that's the only thing I need to consult, and it took a couple of weeks to write it, but I'm glad I did.

You need to ask for access. It's not fully open due to some spamming problem I think that happened in the past (someone can correct me if I'm wrong).  And then I think access is only given if the requestor has been around for a bit and has garnered a bit of trust.

But the only way it'll ever get fixed is if people keep it up to date.  Again, not everyone's first priority, but I've been adding things here and there when I think it's helpful.

I wouldn't mind seeing this 'manual' if you care to share it?  If not I get it, as I imagine you didn't write it for public consumption...

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1 hour ago, Obsttorte said:

The ignore feature is really funny. It is as if you were talking with a ghost. (A really annoying ghost :D )

Sure are a lot of newbie darkradiant questions in here.

giff.jpg.5c0b714d1c9ce34c31b7b96b630263ac.jpg

(sorry for the minor artifacting, I had to use mario paint to bypass the forum's draconian image limitations)

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14 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

You need to ask for access. It's not fully open due to some spamming problem I think that happened in the past (someone can correct me if I'm wrong).  And then I think access is only given if the requestor has been around for a bit and has garnered a bit of trust.

But the only way it'll ever get fixed is if people keep it up to date.  Again, not everyone's first priority, but I've been adding things here and there when I think it's helpful.

I wouldn't mind seeing this 'manual' if you care to share it?  If not I get it, as I imagine you didn't write it for public consumption...

No, sorry, it's my own private gem, tailored to my personal "quick access tastes". It's also written in such a formal style that I don't think you'd be fond of it. I'm fond of sterile and dead things. People tend to be creeped out by that.

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2 hours ago, Nort said:

I give up trying to reason with you guys. Whatever your problem is, I'm just going to accept it. Just keep doing what you're doing.

Same.

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I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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I've noticed that some effects aren't visible through glass that has a 'warp' texture.  For example, water splashes, water textures, rain, etc.  Is this a limitation or is there something I can do to enable it?  'clear glass' works fine however...

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23 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

This could be a rendering order issue, can you post the an example of the glass shader and water shader?

It's simply just a window with 'textures/darkmod/glass/clear_warp', and for example a water entity on the other side textured with 'textures/water_source/water_colored'.  If you look at the water entity though the window, it will be invisible and you will only be able to see things underneath or behind it.

It's the same with rainsplash (e.g. 'textures/darkmod/weather/rain_splash_moderate') or running water (textures/water_source/water_stream)

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21 minutes ago, AluminumHaste said:

Yeah that's an old bug, limitations of the renderer.

Try tagging @duzenko or @cabalistic for a more in depth explanation

 

Thanks, although I likely wouldn't understand the explanation 😂.  Also I think it's just the water textures that's a problem, not rain.

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I asked duzenko, and he said this:

Quote

We can probably have a limited implementation of translucent sorting. Please create a dedicated forum thread and attach a test map.

 

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8 hours ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Nice one - I'll knock one up later and post it

posted: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21477-water-effects-not-rendered-through-warp-glass/

 

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I'm trying to play around with the 'trigger_look' functionality described here: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Triggering_events_when_looking_at_something

The page says:

Quote

Deploying the Trigger_Look Scriptobject

On the object you want to trigger an event (let's call it here a "seen-object" or as a more specific example, a "shield"), add the spawnarg

scriptobject     trigger_look

That's it. If the player does look at it, it will trigger all its targets.

however when I do just that, on map start I get the following error:

"Script object 'trigger_look' not found on entity <entity name>".

Also, the page goes on to say if you want to use this with an AI, then to "merge trigger_look functions with the AI's script object" and gives an example to download.  It also says "See also in the TMD distribution: tdm_base01/script/ai_trigger_look.script".

Does this mean we can just set the scriptobject on the AI to "ai_trigger_look" instead of "trigger_look", or do we have to write our own 'merged' script object?  It's not clear from that page.

Edited by Frost_Salamander
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1 hour ago, Frost_Salamander said:

"Script object 'trigger_look' not found on entity <entity name>".

This means the game can't find the script file. Did you include it into your fm as described in the article?

1 hour ago, Frost_Salamander said:

Does this mean we can just set the scriptobject on the AI to "ai_trigger_look" instead of "trigger_look", or do we have to write our own 'merged' script object?  It's not clear from that page.

If you include the corresponding script file, you can set the scriptobject to ai_trigger_look. Note that entities can only have on scriptobject, so if you want the functionality of the trigger_look on an entity that already uses one, a merge of the code is needed. I created the ai_trigger_look version in the past and iirc @Springheelused it in one of his missions. It probably needs to be included first, too.

FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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14 minutes ago, Obsttorte said:

This means the game can't find the script file. Did you include it into your fm as described in the article?

I didn't, no.  The article doesn't say you need to.  It says to add the spawnarg, and then 'that's it'.  Also, the 'trigger_look' and 'ai_trigger_look' are both distributed with TDM (in tdm_base01.pk4\script) - why do I have to include it anywhere?  The article says:

Quote

(Any FM that used trigger_look before it was part of the standard distribution will have a copy in the FM's script folder as well as the line

 #include "script/trigger_look.script"

This makes me think one used to have to do that, but not anymore?

14 minutes ago, Obsttorte said:

If you include the corresponding script file, you can set the scriptobject to ai_trigger_look. Note that entities can only have on scriptobject, so if you want the functionality of the trigger_look on an entity that already uses one, a merge of the code is needed. I created the ai_trigger_look version in the past and iirc @Springheelused it in one of his missions. It probably needs to be included first, too.

I get the same error if I try this on an AI with 'ai_trigger_look' as well.  I even tried including it in my FM scripts/ folder along with the include statement.  Same error.

Edited by Frost_Salamander
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23 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

The article doesn't say you need to. 

Yeah, the formulation is misleading. You don't need to ship the script with your fm as it is now part of the core mod, but still need to include it.

23 minutes ago, Frost_Salamander said:

I get the same error if I try this on an AI with 'ai_trigger_look' as well.  I even tried including it in my FM scripts/ folder along with the include statement.  Same error.

Well, it works fine on my end. Here are the steps:

  • Create a folder script in your fm folder
  • in that folder, create a file tdm_custom_scripts.script
  • in that file, add the line
#include "script/ai_trigger_look.script"
#include "script/trigger_look.script"

That's it.

It is not included by default as some missions released before it was added to the core mod may have already used the script.

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FM's: Builder Roads, Old Habits, Old Habits Rebuild

Mapping and Scripting: Apples and Peaches

Sculptris Models and Tutorials: Obsttortes Models

My wiki articles: Obstipedia

Texture Blending in DR: DR ASE Blend Exporter

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