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TDM 2.05 official introductory missions


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#51 Springheel

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 12:41 PM

Some people like ambient music, some don't.

 

The inn has sbutle ambient music, the streets don't, because they have a lot of ambient noise already.


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#52 Anderson

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 12:45 PM

In many games it isn't unobtrusive and unfortunately darkmod doesn't have a specific ambient music volune control

If anything TDM underuses it in too many FM's. It's especially underlined in early ones such as The Parcel.

I'm certain in the long run that the default introduction mission should make use of all tools available to increase immersion. It should compensate for the lack of EAX sound design wise.



#53 Anderson

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 12:48 PM

Some people like ambient music, some don't.

 

The inn has sbutle ambient music, the streets don't, because they have a lot of ambient noise already.

A very valid point as well. The issue is not to underestimate it, such as the case with Mount & Blade would be. Makes the game seem more like a mod and less confident. I'm probably very subjective on this, but I felt it was always important not to have prolongued silences as Half Life liked to get the player into (unless there's a good reason).


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#54 grayman

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 12:57 PM

In many games it isn't unobtrusive and unfortunately darkmod doesn't have a specific ambient music volune control

 

Main Menu -> Audio -> Ambient Volume


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#55 chakkman

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 01:08 PM

100% behind that. Simply well balanced music does the job. 

As the first mission seeks to take example from Thief Deadly Shadows, there's that naturally for inspiration. It wasn't loud or obnoxious. It was minimalistic and casual for a casual night:

 

 

The TDS soundtrack is for me the best of all Thief parts. I can only double to take that as inspiration. 

 

BTW, the city parts had ambient parts too, as far as i remember? Here's a vid of the whole soundtrack, and the different city quarters have tracks too:

 



#56 Anderson

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 01:31 PM

The TDS soundtrack is for me the best of all Thief parts. I can only double to take that as inspiration. 
 
BTW, the city parts had ambient parts too, as far as i remember? Here's a vid of the whole soundtrack, and the different city quarters have tracks too:
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=1sv9mnYDwuQ

Yep, the TaffersInn channel on YouTube has them all in a convenient playlist. The video I sent is also part of that.

#57 Oldjim

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 01:32 PM

Ambient volume doesn't just affect music but on the mission it also removes the other ambient sounds such as the dog etc. in the street



#58 Anderson

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 01:38 PM

Ambient volume doesn't just affect music but on the mission it also removes the other ambient sounds such as the dog etc. in the street


I think it's logical. All are part of ambient sounds. I.e. Not relating to the Npc's, voices, dialogues, player monologue.

#59 chakkman

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 01:47 PM

FWIW, i've never been bothered by the ambient music in either part of the Thief games, or, in TDM. 



#60 chakkman

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:00 PM

I have the issue with the unfrobbable journal and ring too BTW, meh. Mission was awesome until that.



#61 Springheel

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:01 PM

:(


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#62 chakkman

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:06 PM

If uploading my savegame in any way helps you track down the problem, just let me know. Not a big deal anyway, i was like half an hour into the mission or so.



#63 Springheel

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:07 PM

That might be useful actually. Does it continue to happen if you reload the save?


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#64 grayman

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:13 PM

Is the save from before you opened the desk for the first time?



#65 chakkman

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:17 PM

No, i only saved after i opened the desk. I just loaded it again, and both items are still unfrobbable.

 

Here is the savegame if it helps: https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing


Edited by chakkman, 18 February 2017 - 05:22 PM.

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#66 Springheel

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 05:34 PM

Ok, I found something.

 

In the save game the book is unfrobabble when the desk is open.  When you close the desk, you can frob the book through the side of the desk.  This tells me that it is a problem with the frob-block getting out of sync with the desk door.  Why that is happening I don't know.

 

Goldwell reported this happening in one of his missions in 2.04--two objects behind a grate became unfrobabble but only randomly.


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#67 Cambridge Spy

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 07:58 PM

I've never had problems with ambient music. Also, can anyone answer my question about how the tweaked light gem affects AIs seeing the player up close in complete shadow?


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#68 Goldwell

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:06 PM

I found the ambient sounds and music to be an excellent balance in this mission myself. Out on the streets the sounds of the crows, dogs barking, pipes pumping water through them and the idle banter between AI's really helps to set the mood. Inside the tavern there is a good balance of ambient music too. It's not too overpowering just a nice subtle track to help fill in the mood and keep the dead silence to a minimum.

 

Also I absolutely love that T:DS ambient for the Blue Heron Inn, I wish we could use the thief soundtracks in TDM.


Edited by Goldwell, 18 February 2017 - 08:12 PM.

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#69 Springheel

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:54 PM

how the tweaked light gem affects AIs seeing the player up close in complete shadow?

 

 

 

On expert difficulty the AI can see better.


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#70 Cambridge Spy

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 08:58 PM

 

 

On expert difficulty the AI can see better.

Does this apply to every Fan Mission, or just those two missions?


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#71 Springheel

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 09:04 PM

I can't speak for other missions.


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#72 New Horizon

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:05 PM

Does this apply to every Fan Mission, or just those two missions?


What tweaks are you referring to?

#73 Cambridge Spy

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:12 PM

What tweaks are you referring to?

I noticed that AIs can see you in complete darkness when they're standing really close to you. In A New Job, I tried to hide in the kitchen corner, but the maid comes over there and stays for a while, in which time she notices me and begins investigating. Also in Tears of Saint Lucia, when I get into a position to wait for a guard to come close to me, they comment that they see something as they come close. I believe it has to do with the coding changes to the light gem in 2.05.


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#74 New Horizon

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:29 PM

I noticed that AIs can see you in complete darkness when they're standing really close to you. In A New Job, I tried to hide in the kitchen corner, but the maid comes over there and stays for a while, in which time she notices me and begins investigating. Also in Tears of Saint Lucia, when I get into a position to wait for a guard to come close to me, they comment that they see something as they come close. I believe it has to do with the coding changes to the light gem in 2.05.


Maybe there were changes made to the ambient lighting, or as spring mentioned difficulty levels affect the sight on expert difficulty. You can also set AI hearing and vision to a more classic thief like level in the main menu.

The coding changes for the lightgem were simply to improve the speed of the processing. Didn't have anything to do with sensitivity or accuracy that I'm aware of.
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#75 nbohr1more

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Posted 18 February 2017 - 10:58 PM

I haven't noticed any change in "awareness" in other missions.

 

What I did notice is that the ambient light in these missions is a tad higher than a typical mission and St Lucia

seems to have been brightened a bit. It makes the missions more challenging and realistic but can lead to

frustration as there are fewer hiding places to cool down in.


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