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Public release v1.7.6 (with Dark Mod support) is out. Improvements since the final beta 14 are: Fixed a few remaining bugs with zip/pk4 support. Game Versions window now properly displays TDM version. Import window no longer has a vestigial off-screen TDM field (because TDM doesn't need or support importing). Web search option is now disabled if an unknown/unsupported FM is selected. If an FM with an unknown or unsupported game type is selected, the messages in the tab area now no longer refer to Thief 3 ("Mod management is not supported for Thief: Deadly Shadows"). The full changelog can be viewed at the release link. The de facto official AngelLoader thread is here: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149706 Bug reports, feature requests etc. are usually posted there. I'll continue following this thread though. Thanks everyone and enjoy!

Good work! I enjoy short missions because things are nice and focused - you get in, you get out. Also I tend to do better with the loot amounts and I was able to get all the loot without too much trouble, which is rare for me. If I were to make a suggestion though - I found the intro briefing sequence a bit distracting because it was so obvious the narration was pitch-shifted to make a deeper voice. If you felt the original voice wasn't deep enough for your needs, I would either get someone on the forums to record it for you or just leave as is. That's my only real complaint and it's not even about the mission itself, so pretty good first start!

Beta 11 Fix finished-on state auto-update was unreliable Slighty improve scanner title/author detect Tags are now named some whatever regular-version-looking thing to force GitHub to put the newest at the top

The subtitles of The Simpleton vocal set is now available for eventual incorporation into TDM: testSubtitlesSimpleton.pk4 "Vocal Script: Simpleton" says that he is "an uneducated, simple character, who speaks in a slow, measured voice. He goes about his life dealing with the here and now, and doesn’t think much about anything beyond what he’s doing. He could be a simple servant or labourer. For inspiration, think of the pirate with the wooden eye from 'Pirates of the Carribean', or Hank Hill from 'King of the Hill'. This is the default voice for common townsfolk, so don’t give him too much personality, or over-exaggerate it for laughs (even though some of the lines are played for comedic value)." Statistics In file fm_root.subs there are 496 inlines, including: 52 with an explicit linebreak, intending 2 lines 444 without Of these, 59 with explicit duration extensions, as follows: 37 from 0.25 to 0.49, for 17 cps 22 capped at 0.50 seconds, for 17-20 cps There are 3 SRTs, all representing vocalized tunes. Each has 2 messages, with a 2-second start message and later 2-second end message. None required an explicit linebreak. In all, there are 499 voice clips with subtitles, showing 502 messages. Corresponding Excel File SubtitlesSimpleton.xlsx As usual, this is based on Version 5 of the Excel Template for TDM bark subtitles.

Here are my thoughts on version 20-Oct: Consideration: as a general rule, the vast majority of players will never know what a cvar is, much less how they work. I don't consider cvars an option because after a while, people forget what they changed, how and probably why. - Snuffing out candles feels very natural and I don't personally perceive players could unintentionally put them out often. The risk is there though, especially for people with especial needs. - In my opinion, the probabilities of unintentionally dropping bodies while operating doors is considerable, specially when the frob distance of doors is reduced. - Moving a leg of a body aside is ok but dragging or toying with bodies is no fun anymore therefore the feature is gone for (old and) new players. I personally see more cons than pros and I don't feel I can do anything new, faster or better. It actually is a little confusing that I can do a same thing in different ways now. I am convinced this is a missed opportunity and a common place exists but... Having said all that, if I was a new player I guess I would have to do with what I am given and there's no way for me to tell if I would have felt that something was off or missing therefore: if this change is to take TDM to new heights I will rewire my brain. I would just appreciate that the shortcomings are properly and honestly acknowledged, instead of telling tales. Fun fact: we now have three different keys to drop bodies.

I'd like to better understand what you want. The design of dragging bodies is to hold frob (key down) to drag and release frob (key up) to let go. That way it's impossible to walk away while unintentionally dragging a body. Plus, it's quick to grab and move several body limbs in rapid succession. This is thought to provide a better experience, especially for new players. Towards the beginning of this thread, I created a "tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior" cvar. https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22198-feature-proposal-frob-to-use-world-item/&do=findComment&comment=487580 "tdm_frobhold_drag_body_behavior", default:"1" Which drag body behavior? 1 --- on frob key up, drop body (limb). 0 --- on second frob, drop body (limb), TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. That cvar was removed shortly afterwards, because it was said that it wasn't needed. With that cvar set to 0, a second frob would be required to let go of the body. Is that the behavior that you want? If so, I can add that cvar back. Also, I saw elsewhere that you want the ability to revert back to the old way. If you mean that all of the controls match TDM 2.11, that can be done with "tdm_frobhold_delay 0" and there will be a menu setting to disable it as well.

Not to be a nag, but I was thinking about the columns problem. If you go to the view source tab in the wiki article: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Fan_Missions_for_The_Dark_Mod&action=edit The raw table data is accessible directly: |- !align=left|{{TDM-FM|written|Written in Stone}} |Bikerdude, Amadeus, Dragofer |{{Forumlink|https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21265-written-in-stone-beta-210-only-20220128/}} |2022-01-28 |338 |Yes |Yes |CCC 22, Elixir |City Missions |Undead, Horror Themes |- Each pipe character represents one of the columns.

Terrific! The beta test thread is up: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22238-beta-testing-the-spider-and-the-finch/

Whereabouts, in Yorkshire perhaps? I have lived in England all my life, mainly the east midlands, the north west and the south east, and everyone I know pronounces threepenny as threppenny, the double e being pronounced as a short e rather than a long e. The UK has many accents for a relatively small place, so the pronounciation you suggest may exist, but is not the most common one.

Welcome to the Dark Mod forums MarsManon! Thank you very much for the kind words about SLL, it's always nice to hear We all worked real hard on bringing Grayman's map to life and I'm glad you enjoyed it

I was so enchanted by this FM, I had to sign up to the forums the same day I finished it to come thank the authors Genuinely, truly incredible work! I was so overwhelmed in places that I resorted to just shouting joy at my monitor two, three, maybe four entirely separate times while playing. Exploring, puzzling, finding something new, trying to use it, and finding it does a whole new, separate, wonderful thing! There aren't enough words inside me to describe the feeling. It was breathtaking. I don't have any specific feedback that hasn't come through this thread before Thanks so much for making this, for all the inspiration and ingenuity and effort it took. If I never play another level this good, in any other game, in my life, I'd be fine with that.

There's a group of players who have meticulously tested and adjusted ghosting rules for The Dark Mod. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Why alienate an established group of dedicated players?

That is incorrect. Multiloot is still click and hold to loot. It's a compromise, and that compromise is only for moveable light sources. It gives players a way to extinguish a candle without picking it up first, reducing steps. And, it gives players who ghost the ability to extinguish it without moving it. The point I was trying to make is that holding frob to perform an action is common. Multiloot happens while holding frob. Dragging a body happens while holding frob. Extinguishing a candle happens while holding frob. As another example, some missions have a wheel (switch) that opens a gate. While the player holds frob, the wheel turns, opening the gate more and more. I'm not sure if there is a TDM mission with one, but there are Thief missions that do. There's hold "attack" or "use" button to throw objects farther. There's hold "manipulate" button to rotate objects.

There's no conflict there, though. If you're aiming at the belt-purse, you loot the purse. If you're aiming at the body, you shoulder it. Just like you do in Thief. Shouldering is the most common action when you're deciding what to do with the body, not with the items it's carrying.

It’s incredibly common in controller mapping - to the point even the game’s current controller implementation supports it. Not sure if switching this to a double click is additive or subtractive. What is getting lost is the primary interaction with a body imo is actually to shoulder it - not drag it. Obfuscating this behind a second input is clunky and confusing to new players. What is “intuitive” is a matter of perspective, but the current patched method of the initial click shouldering a body makes a lot more sense to me and actually addresses some of the complaints from new players as laid out in the initial post. There is a method via the delay cvar for experienced players who prefer the old system to restore it, so I am uncertain what the down side is really?

OK I think I've got to the bottom of this. I've created this forum thread (with bug report): https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22221-bug-drowning-ai-in-shallow-water/ I can apply a workaround, although it won't be perfect and the bug itself needs fixing in the engine. There are a few other things that need fixing so will put an update together soonish.

If any mappers have encountered weirdness with kill objectives not working with drowning AI, I think I've found out why. I don't think it would be a particularly difficult one to fix either. I've raised this bug report: https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6323 Some context here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21837-fan-mission-the-lieutenant-2-high-expectations-by-frost_salamander-20230424/&do=findComment&comment=487316 I think this is a bug, but just raising here in case some people think otherwise.

I dom't use it, i found it here with the filter set to OpenSource. the TOS and PP isn't excluding for an OpenSource app, if they use ads mean that they also need to pay an server for this online service. OpenSource is not synonymous with free either, perhaps after the beta phase it is no longer free, so perhaps you can take advantage of the fact that it is still free to create a series of textures that can be used or search another one in Futuretools. AI generated textures and assets, by definition, don't have any copyright, so you can use them as you want. https://www.futuretools.io/?pricing-model=free|open-source&tags-n5zn=gaming

i5-6600T here which is virtually identical or slightly slower, same Intel HD 530 graphics, paired with 32 GB dual-channel DDR4-2133, and a M.2 SSD. With my 720p display (which is set to 1360x768 for whatever reason) I was getting around 40 FPS in High Expectations beta testing, with dips to the 20s. But the internal TDM/Doom3 FPS counter seems very erratic. I've ended up getting a much better experience in TDM by locking it to 30 FPS. Dips are less common, the experience is playable. It's clearly faster than the old A6-3400M APU I used to use to play TDM a decade ago, which was not always bad but would sometimes crater down to 4-5 FPS. I'm pretty much always getting around 28-30 FPS when locked. I think I can upgrade the CPU itself to at least an i7-7700T which is slightly better all around (maybe i7-7700 if I have the correct 65W-capable Dell motherboard), but the prices I've seen on ebay suck. If it's significantly more than $30 shipped, I might as well stick with the 6600T and put that cash towards the next mini PC.

My wife got me my first iPhone around 2013 I believe ( old iPhone 4 classic ). At the time I had very mixed feelings as I really hated Apple's walled garden OS, lack of MicroSD slots, lack of replaceable battery, and proprietary charging \ data transfer port. That said I was still a little jealous of my old co-worker who had the first iPhone and showed off the wonders of the Lightsaber App and reading websites with pinch zoom so it was cool to finally have these capabilities on my own device. Since I am ostensibly a hermit and do not really "consume" digital goods like paid apps and music, I jailbroke the phone not long after owning it and gleefully installed a number of janky retro emulators on it. I kept that phone for a LOONG time. I believe it was about 1.5yrs ago when my phone provider was acquired \ merged and the new owners mandated that I could no longer use my ancient beast on their new network. My wife ( who is now thoroughly entrenched in the iPhone world ) insisted I get a newer iPhone as a replacement so I got a slightly aged iPhone 11 due to the supply shortages. At first I was thrilled at the increases in storage and processing power but then using phone began to sour my mood. They removed the headphone jack in iPhone 8 (?) I believe so obviously this was strike one against the device. I think the home button was removed in iPhone 10 so "strike two". Then the charging cable does not connect to a standard USB port on a PC or standard USB charger so I could no longer sync iTunes over a cable without buying some specialized adapter cable. Third strike. Since the whole world followed Apple's lead and no other phones offered these features either I was consigned to fume about the supposed "progress" of my new device. Flash Forward to 2023 and the iPhone 15 Pro launch and now we can see that they are removing the "Easy silent mode toggle switch" and are replacing it with a haptic multi-function button. Garbage. The point of having a silent toggle is that you can quickly silence your phone even if it's dark or in your pocket. Now you need to look at your phone to see that you actually succeeded in silencing it. How can they possibly think this was an improvement? I really am stumped here. Did someone at Apple think that forcing you to look at your phone to silence it will give advertisers more time to show you advertisements on lock-screen news-feed? Are the trying to make going to the movies more inconvenient so that you will stay home and watch Apple TV+ instead? Did the US Government tell Apple to change this so that law enforcement or intelligence agencies and explicitly tell when you are silencing your phone so that no clandestine recordings can be captured without an easily spotted visual of someone struggling to silence their phone? Is this just more "reduce the number of buttons" Apple insanity? It really boggles the mind. When they got rid of the Home Button, they seriously damaged the product brand in my opinion. The whole point of having a Home Button is that if you are stuck in some misbehaving App or Website and you need to get back to the starting GUI you can press a button to get safely home. Now if the bottom swipe is obscured by a misbehaving App your only choice is to power off the phone. The excuse for the removal of the Home Button as that it made the phone less water resilient. In that case, how did the buttons on the side of the phone continue to persist? If there is some absurd logic that can be put forth about why side buttons are more water resilient than a front button, then why not move the Home Button to the side? So I went around looking for iPhone 15 critique videos and to my utter dismay nobody was complaining about the removal of the Silence Toggle switch. Instead they bemoan that the iPhone 15 is "more of the same" even though the CPU, GPU, RAM, and Storage are all significantly upgraded. The common complaint is that Apple hasn't improved the physical aspects of the phone such as not having a folding or flip phone design. I find that to be a completely crazy take on things. The classic buttons worked fine. The form factor did not need to be substantially changed. The underlying CPU and GPU is where you should expect to see improvements for products like these. Beyond bringing back the Home Button and Headphone Jack ( and preventing the full removal of the Silent Mode toggle ), the only "form factor" change I would like to see is some sort of accessory that approximates a slider era cellphone keyboard so I can type out texts or phone numbers with real keys as feedback. Nakey Jakey sorta touched on a few of these issues in one of his newer videos:

It's not hard. Nor would it be hard if you had to simultaneously hold down 3 different key modifiers, or enter a sequence of 5 directional inputs timed with key presses like a fighting game combo, and yet I bet you would agree that would be ridiculous. For any software there is value in streamlining the most common interactions thathas nothing to do with accessibility. When most players click a body 95% of the time they don't want to nudge around the limbs, they want to pick it up and move it. When most players click a candle 99.8% of the time they don't want to move it, they want to put it out. It doesn't make sense for these most common interactions to require 2 actions when they could require just 1. That's not to say that this is a obligatory change that will massively improve the quality of the game. You are right that it is a very minor thing, but if the willingness exists to create a patch to change it then it seems like a no-brainer to make it the default. That's my interpretation of this thread.

Hello TDM-ers. I am encountering an issue where textures seem to partially disappear. I tried searching the forums, but, I don't know what to search for. The missing textures are a worldspawn brush acting as a roof with {for now} flat iron texture. There are other worldspawn brushes right below to create an attic ceiling with roof framework board texture. These gaps appeared a few edits ago. I can't "undo" to get back before whatever edit did this. The gaps are only visible during play and are not visible during editing. Closing and reopening DR and TDM do not fix anything. Some of the brushes overlap in areas behind the play area but I have never seen an issue doing that. The attached image has the effect I am now seeing. Ideas on where to start debugging this? Very much appreciated. Clint

Slight necro... What would be useful is a global surface parameter that allows frob to stick to non-solid, invisible surfaces. Then it would be possible to define a material like this: textures/common/nodraw_frobable { description "used to make invisible, nonsolid brushes that nevertheless accepts frobs" qer_editorimage textures/common/nodraw_frobable.tga nonsolid noshadows allowfrob //new global surface param } Then it would be child's play to do all sorts of useful things like: * Make barred gates less irritating by painting the bars with it, so that you don't have to aim pixel-perfect at the visible geometry. Facing the gate, even looking between the bars, will do- and being non-solid you could still shoot projectiles through it. * Less messing about with atdm:target_set_frobable brushes which, let's face it, are finicky and often don't work right. If you want to block a frob, just make a func_static out of the new nodraw_frobable material and then just trigger the func_tastic to remove the frob block. * If you need a frobable shape for an object that differs significantly from its visible shape or collision surface, a frob_peer made of this would be perfect. Regular nodraw doesn't work, and the various clips are pretty gunky for this purpose.

Awesome! Post is up! https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22200-beta-testing-the-house-of-delisle/#comment-487365 Thanks!

Complaint From Players The player must pick up candles before extinguishing them, and then the player must remember to drop the candle. The player must drag a body before shouldering it (picking it up), and the player must remember to frob again to stop dragging the body. The player finds this annoying or easy to make mistakes. For players who ghost, some of them have the goal of returning objects back to their original positions. With the current "pick up, use item, and drop" system, the item might not return easily or at all to its original position. For example, a candlestick might bounce off its holder. (See player quotes at the bottom.) Bug Tracker https://bugs.thedarkmod.com/view.php?id=6316 Problems to Solve How can the "pick up" step be eliminated so that the player can directly use or interact with the item where it is in the game world? How can so much key pressing and mouse clicking be eliminated when the player wants to directly use an item? How can candles be extinguished and lanterns toggled off/on without first picking them up? How can bodies be shouldered without first dragging them? Solution Design Goals Make TDM easier for new players while also improving it for longtime players. Reduce tedious steps for common frob interactions. Make it intuitive so that menu settings are unnecessary. Do not introduce bugs or break the game. Terms frob -- the frob button action happens instantly. hold frob -- the frob button is held for 200ms before the action happens. (This can be changed via cvar: 200ms by default.) Proposed Solution Note: Some issues have been struckthrough to show changes since the patch has been updated. Change how frobbing works for bodies, candles, and lanterns. For bodies: Frob to shoulder (pick up) a body. Second frob to drop shouldered body, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Hold frob (key down) to start drag, continue to hold frob (key down) to drag body, and then release frob (key up) to stop dragging body. Also, a body can be dragged immediately by holding frob and moving the mouse. For candles/lanterns: Frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. Hold frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to extinguish candles and toggle off/on lanterns. For food: Frob to pick it up, and then frob again to drop. Hold frob to eat food. For other items: No change. New cvar "tdm_frobhold_delay", default:"200" The frob hold delay (in ms) before drag or extinguish. Set to 0 for TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Benefits Bodies: New players will have less to learn to get started moving knocked out guards. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players have played several missions before realizing that they could shoulder a body instead of dragging it long distances. Frob to shoulder body matches Thief, so longtime Thief players will find it familiar. Second frob drops a shouldered body. Players still have the ability to both shoulder and drag bodies. Compatible with the new auto-search bodies feature. Dragging feels more natural -- just grab, hold, and drop with a single button press. There is no longer the need to press the button twice. Also, it's no longer possible to walk away from a body while unintentionally dragging it. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Candles: New players will have less to learn to get started extinguishing candles. With TDM v2.11 and earlier, some players didn't know they could extinguish candles by picking them up and using them. Instead, they resorted to throwing them to extinguish them or hiding them. Hold frob to extinguish a candle feels like "pinching" it out. Once a candle is picked up, players still have the ability to manipulate and use them the same way they are used to in TDM v2.11 and earlier. For players who ghost and have the goal of putting objects back to their original positions, they'll have an easier time and not have to deal with candles popping off their holders when trying to place them back carefully. Set "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar to delay of 0 to restore TDM v2.11 (and prior) behavior. Solution Issues Bodies: Frob does not drop a shouldered body, so that might be unexpected for new players. This is also different than Thief where a second frob will drop a body. "Use Inv. Item" or "Drop Inv. Item" drops the body. This is the same as TDM v2.11 and earlier. This is the price to pay for being able to frob (open/close) doors while shouldering a body. Patch was updated to drop body on second frob, while allowing frob on doors, switches, etc. Candles: Picking up a candle or lantern requires a slight delay, because the player must hold the frob button. The player might unintentionally extinguish a candle while moving it if they hold down frob. The player will need to learn that holding frob will extinguish the candle. The player can change the delay period via the "tdm_frobhold_delay" cvar. Also, when the cvar is set to a delay of 0, the behavior matches TDM v2.11 and earlier, meaning the player would have to first "Frob/Interact" to pick up the candle and then press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish it. Some players might unintentionally extinguish a candle when they are trying to move it or pick it up. They need to make sure to hold frob to initiate moving the candle. When a candle is unlit, it will highlight but do nothing on frob. That might confuse players. However, the player will likely learn after extinguishing several candles that an unlit candle still highlights. It makes sense that an already-extinguished candle cannot be extinguished on frob. The official "Training Mission" might need to have its instructions updated to correctly guide the player through candle manipulation training. Updating the training mission to include the hold frob to extinguish would probably be helpful. Similar Solutions In Fallout 4, frob uses an item and long-press frob picks it up. Goldwell's mission, "Accountant 2: New In Town", has candles that extinguish on frob without the need of picking them up first. Snatcher's TDM Modpack includes a "Blow / Ignite" item that allows the player to blow out candles Wesp5's Unofficial Patch provides a way to directly extinguish movable candles by frobbing. Demonstration Videos Note: The last two videos don't quite demonstrate the latest patch anymore. But the gist is the same. This feature proposal is best experienced in game, but some demonstration videos are better than nothing. The following videos show either a clear improvement or that the player is not slowed down with the change in controls. For example, "long-press" sounds long, but it really isn't. Video: Body Shouldering and Dragging The purpose of this video is to show that frob to shoulder a body is fast and long-press frob to drag a body is fast enough and accurate. Video: Long-Press Frob to Pick Up Candle The purpose of this video is to show how the long-press frob to pick up a candle isn't really much slower than regular frob. Video: Frob to Extinguish The purpose of this video -- if a bit contrived -- is to show the efficiency and precision of this proposed feature. The task in the video was for the player to as quickly and accurately as possible extinguish candles and put them back in their original positions. On the left, TDM v2.11 is shown. The player has to highlight each candle, press "Frob/Interact" to pick up, press "Use Inv. Item" to extinguish, make sure the candle is back in place, and finally press "Frob/Interact" to drop the candle. The result shows mistakes and candles getting misplaced. On the right, the proposed feature is shown. The player frobs to extinguish the candles. The result shows no mistakes and candles are kept in their original positions. Special Thanks @Wellingtoncrab was instrumental in improving this feature during its early stages. We had many discussions covering varying scenarios, pros, and cons, and how it would affect the gameplay and player experience. Originally, I had a completely different solution that added a special "use modifier" keybinding. He suggested the frob to use and long-press frob to pick up mechanics. I coded it up, gave it a try, and found it to be too good. Without his feedback and patience, this feature wouldn't be as good as it is. Thank you, @Wellingtoncrab! And, of note, @Wellingtoncrab hasn't been able to try it in game yet, because I'm using Linux and can't compile a Windows build for him. So, if this feature isn't good, that's my fault. Code Patch I'll post the code patch in another post below this one so that folks who compile TDM themselves can give this proposal a try in game. And, if you do, I look forward to your feedback! Player Complaints TTLG (2023-01-10) Player 1: TDM Forums (2021-03-13) Player 2: Player 3: TDM Forums (2023-06-17) Player 4: TDM Discord (2021-05-18) Player 5: TDM Discord (2023-02-14) Player 6: Player 7: Player 8: