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Inventory Item Results The AI results, generated in a flash, were successful overall. The desired output format was achieved, and the back translations detected very few problems. An example result (before alphabetic ordering), from [Italian]: "#str_fm_map_inv_key_sea_trunk" "Baule da mare" Sea chest "#str_fm_map_inv_key_galley" "Cucina di bordo" Ship’s galley "#str_fm_map_inv_key_mess" "Refettorio" Mess "#str_fm_map_inv_key_master_key" "Chìave maestra" Master key ... Caveats: A judgement of “overall success” is without ground-truthing by human translators. The back-translation uses the same AI as the forward-translation... loosely analogous to “grading its own paper”. Though told not to look at the original English when back-translating, is it cheating and lying? Revisions and Refinements Title Casing for Inventory Items. I should have explicitly prompted to generate this in the results. I manually corrected these (leaving separators like di, de, do, del in lower case), but a few cases required ChatGPT consultation to get the proper upper-case Unicode letter. Mess. Two translation needed revision, because they seemed to suggest an eating area of a much larger or luxurious ship: [German] "#str_fm_map_inv_key_mess" "Offiziersmesse" Officers’ mess [French] "#str_fm_map_inv_key_mess" "Salle à manger" Dining room Rather than rerun the whole translation, I just asked ChatGPT about these cases: On a small ship, what is the mess or eating area called in French? On a small ship, the eating area is typically called la cambuse or le carré, depending on the context: Le carré – This is the standard French nautical term for the crew's or officers’ mess (eating/living area) on a ship. It’s equivalent to the English term mess. Carré des officiers – officers' mess Carré de l’équipage – crew mess La cambuse – Often refers to the ship’s food storage or sometimes the galley (kitchen), but in some informal or small-vessel contexts, it can be used more broadly, though this is less precise for "mess." So for a small ship’s mess or dining area, the best and most nautical French term is le carré. Consequently, I just replaced "Salle à manger" with “Carré”. Likewise, in German, simply “Messe”. Master Key. This was back-translated as “Main key” in 6 of the languages, which I guess is OK. In Air Pocket, a Master Key (entity name key_master) was left in the blue room, if needed for a debugging build; inaccessible otherwise. Arguably, it should not be translated at all. So I’ll comment those non-English lines out. (“Master key” is not part of TDM’s base strings?) Captain’s – Odd Punctuation and Perhaps Compound Unicode. The German translation of “Captain’s Cabin” had odd punctuation: "Kapitan­s¬kajüte" (and some evidence of a Unicode “combining character”). I did a separate follow up to ChatGPT, and revised to drop the punctuation and add an umlaut over the 'a': Kapitänskajüte. Another German use of “Captain’s” was similarly revised. German reportedly never uses apostrophe for possessive form. Captain’s – Title versus Name. There was one case in [Danish] where the word “Captain’s” was not translated, as if it was a person’s name. (Also, reportedly, Danish does not generally use apostrophes for possessives; there are exceptions, but doesn’t seem to apply here.) State of All.Lang So Far Starting from a temporary file into which I pasted the raw AI results (with [<language>] headers added), I fabricated all.lang by: Making sure it had Unix line ending, not CRLF. (In Notepad++, Edit/EOL Conversion/Unix). Begin it with a first-draft preamble comment, heavily adapted from TDM’s all.lang preamble. Following that, a line with just an opening bracket. And a closing bracket line at end of file. Making the handful of translation corrections mentioned above. Change the casing to Title Case. (I didn’t bother changing the back-translation’s case.) Tagging the back-translations with “//bt:”, so they are denoted and if need be can be quickly stripped out with an editor. (If subsequent revision is manually applied, the delimiter will also be altered; preamble will provide guidance.) Lessons Learned So Far Improvements to Prompting... Specify that the FM’s ship is small. Specify that “Captain” is a title, not a person’s name. (Hmm, there’s some shouldered names, not touched by I18N.pl, that maybe should be partially-translated too, with titles like “First Mate Logan”.) For inventory items (and likely readables titles), ask the AI to make the output in Title Case. Tell the AI not to generate Unicode combining characters. Ask the AI to add a special delimiter “ //bt: “ before the back-translation. To the extent possible, convert any directional punctuation (apostrophes, single quotes, double quotes) to non-directional, to comply with TDM font limitations. Since it seems to give better results if you ask about one specific item (like “mess” in French), maybe it’s optimizing for speed instead of accuracy. Ask it to take more time? ChatGPT translation seems to have problems with possessive forms... or at least those problems are more-easily spotted during review. Speculation: maybe one cause of this is that I didn’t specify which country or regional dialect of a language to use. Perhaps a prompt to “prefer the form of language spoken in a language’s originating country, within or adjoining Europe.” Concerns about Translation Length... The results are generally short, but in-game will some of them prove to be too long? Traditionally, inventory names are limited to 2 lines, with “\n” needing to be inserted. This will need to be tested eventually.

This reminds me of Chronicles or Riddick: Assault on Dark Athena... One of my favorite games ever, unfunctional, because of the copy protection. That said, I do get though, that software is a phase-out model. At some point, publishers or developers simply can't guarantee anymore that the stuff will run on current software or hardware. And, it's also not easy to provide the games as is, with a license which allows modifcation of any kind. I can't count how many times I read "Please Open Source your software!". Well, it's not that easy, with potentially loads of licensed code or assets.

Wonderful map. Brutally difficult on "difficult", which of course I like. I'm curious if the mission is any easier at the lower difficulty settings or if it only changes the loot objective. I only managed 4048, so clearly I missed a lot! I only really got frustrated when I ended up using noclip, which I have never done before. I replayed that bit with the gamma turned up after reading another player's post. I found the way, so I could finish without resorting to cheating Thanks for the great mission! [EDIT] I went back in and found I missed ended up with 7088. Well worth retracing my steps for that.

Desired Results File with All Languages What is want to end up with from our AI (with any iterative fixup and manual integration) is an FM-only version of TDM’s UTF-8 all.lang. That file has 17 language sections in a particular order, which we will adopt too (in the prompt further below), although, other than English being first, it doesn’t really matter. Once we have our FM all.lang, we can easily generate all the required ISO-encoded *.lang files, e.g., french.lang. Strategy of Feeding the AI One approach would be to just feed the entire #str list in one gulp, with prompt engineering that covers all aspects. This would minimize the post-translate integration time. But the concern is that prompt engineering becomes more difficult. The AI might get confused about what restrictions and hints apply to which strings. While sometimes shared context across strings can be helpful, too much shared context could lead to overly-creative translations (e.g., hallucinations). [BTW, if accessing the AI through an API, there’s often a "temperature" value you can specify, from 0.0 to 1.0, from most-predictable to most-creative. We can use a few words in the prompt to approximately achieve similar ends.] So, to maintain more control, I’m going to batch-feed. The assumption is that translating #str_ in batches of related input groups will allow more focused guidance from prompt engineering, leading to better results. I’ll start with inventory items, that have the shortest strings and most dictionary-like lookup. An alternative/additional batching (particularly needed with large FMs) would be by "scene". In the case of Air Pocket, it could be thought of broadly as 4 scenes, based on timeline and location. The story, as driven by objectives, is fairly linear; larger FMs would typically have some randomization in scene order. Would batching by scene be useful (i.e., give better AI results) for some of Air Pocket’s #str_ s? Thinking this over. But for now, treat inventory items independent of scene. Prompt Engineering for Inventory Items A stab at a reusable template follows in blue. It describes the overall translation task, the desired tone, and input and output formats. Text specific to inventory items is shown in bold. Text that is specific to this FM, to clarify the context and the meaning of particular words, is in italics, with spoilers hidden. You are an expert translator between English and other European languages, including Russian. You wish to translate a list of inventory items, all inanimate objects, from English to these other languages. Each line of the list begins with a tab, then a word beginning with #str_ within double quotes, then another tab, then a phrase within double quotes. When you translate a line, in the output keep the tabs and the #str_ word unchanged, and only change the phrase to the other target language in UTF-8, keeping it in double quotes. Make the translated phrase reasonably short while preserving the formal meaning. Avoid modern slang. Old-fashioned wording is fine. At the end of each line, add another tab, and then add a back-translation of the previous phrase into English again. When back-translating, ignore the original English phrase. Most of the inventory items are keys, and the associated phrases describe locked doors to particular locations aboard a ship, or locked trunks or safes on a ship. The "Master Key" opens all locks. Following the input list of inventory items, append output lists in these target languages: 1. German 2. French 3. Polish 4. Italian 5. Spanish 6. Portuguese 7. Russian 8. Czech 9. Hungarian 10. Dutch 11. Slovak 12. Danish 13. Swedish 14. Romanian 15. Turkish 16. Catalan. List of inventory items: [... skipping 1 potential spoiler] "#str_fm_map_inv_key_captains_cabin" "Captain's Cabin" "#str_fm_map_inv_key_captains_safe" "Captain's Safe" "#str_fm_map_inv_key_galley" "Galley" "#str_fm_map_inv_key_master_key" "Master Key" "#str_fm_map_inv_key_mess" "Mess" "#str_fm_map_inv_key_sea_trunk" "Sea Trunk" Using ChatGPT As discussed at the outset, you can use this without signing in (it will nag you). Also, if you’d like it not to retain your input for training purposes, click on the circled question mark and change it under "Settings". As of this post, of you ask ChatGPT what model it’s using, it responds "You're currently chatting with GPT-4o, the latest model from OpenAI as of 2025. The "o" stands for "omni" — it's designed to handle text, images, and more, all in one model." Following up by enquiring about usage limitations, it says "Free users can access GPT‑4o, but with strict usage caps, which vary based on demand and time of day". More specifically, "usage falls in the range of 5–16 messages per 3–5 hours, after which you'll be limited or switched to GPT‑4o‑mini." The latter is a faster but lower-accuracy model. "We’ll notify you once you’ve reached the limit and invite you to continue your conversation using GPT-4o mini or to upgrade to [paid] ChatGPT Plus." Because I’m doing this at a leisurely rate (and reporting it to you in posts), the usage restrictions should not bite. About Input and Output Formats As you can see above, the input is the AI prompt, appended with content from english.lang, namely, the lines between the "{" and "}" brackets. For those lines, no change to tab-separation is done. The output is the same format, but with an added English back-translation added to each line. When ChatGPT generates the response, each requested language is enclosed in its own HTML response frame, with a separate "copy" link. So you have to copy each link separately, pasting them successively into your FM-specific all.lang file while adding headers, e.g., [French]. Also, the frame margin contains the word "vbnet". When I asked, ChatGPT indicates that’s the style of syntax highlighting applied to the results, based on source material, but it may be inappropriate and so ignorable. Which explains why the word "key" was always colored green. In the next post, I’ll discuss the specific results.

Ah, now I found it, thanks!

Does anyone have an example of a mission where this check is done? It isn't a bad idea, and seems like something the core game should be doing, with the FMs providing whatever metadata they need to enable it. Something rings a bell recently with maybe some constant being available via script events?

Maybe some of you have the same sort of situation and haven't found an aswer for the pointer appearing in the centre of your tdm game when switching to an other computer and back, and have to quit and restart the game for it to go away ... I just found a solution!: I hooked up another mouse (both logitech now, so maybe that matters .. dunno) to my game computer and just left it on top of the case .. only to keep saying to the game computer: I'm a mouse! Now I can play TDM and switch to mij low wattage internet computer, use my main mouse and keyboard, switch back and don't have the annoying pointer in the middle of my game : ) It will probably work for other games with the same issue.

Renaming the Strings What I describe here is a bit of a fib, reflecting where I ended up, not the iterative process. And some renaming was refined after the first trial AI run. Before doing the translation, I’m going to rename all the FM-specific strings. Why? It’s fair to say the #str_ system was never a hit with DR developers, so features that would support it are scant. A way to make it less painful for mappers to inspect a post-conversion FM in DR is to change the #str_<5-numbers> to #str_<meaningful string>. By convention, <meaningful string> is limited to ASCII alphanumeric characters plus underscore, with no spaces. This generally does not include a version of the full English string (and there are length limitations), but something that clues the mapper. And groups things helpfully. More specifically, I’m going to rename all the FM-specific strings from #str_2xxxx to: #str_fm_<file_source><grouping_and_ordering>_<unique hint> The <grouping_and_ordering> substrings are chosen with an eye to both viewing in DR and group translation. (Later, I’ll talk about batch-processing strategies. The group-naming here does not use a “by scene” strategy.) So this is done first in english.lang and then the altered assets (in .map, .xd). As I search for “#str_” in assets, I am aware that some strings are TDM-level defined, so I should not rename them. These have stringID numbers under 20000, or in theory beginning with #str_main_menu. There were 2 of these found in airpocket: items with inv_name or inv_category given by #str_10052 and #str_02381. Specific Renamings and Examples I’ll be truncating example strings here for brevity and to reduce spoilers. The categories (and an example or two of each) follow. Darkmod.txt and Readme.txt. As mentioned, TDM doesn’t really handle translations of these. Just for completeness... "#str_20000" ==> "#str_fm_darkmod_txt__title" "Away 1: Air Pocket" "#str_20001" ==> "#str_fm_darkmod_txt_desc" "On the run from her husband, me and my girl. With a bribe to a ship's captain, we're away. What could go wrong now? Oh, dammit." Notice that here (and elsewhere) I’ve added an extra “_” before “title”. This is so, when sorted alphabetically, the title comes first before the description (in this case) or body. Mission Briefing. This tells a story, so be sure that its titles (if any), bodies, and pages are well-order to present to the AI. Since the briefing text is long and complex, I’ve opted not to include a #str <hint> for it. "#str_20026" ==> "#str_fm_mission_briefing_xd_pg1_body" "Life is sweet! It's been 3 days since Emily ran away with me, leaving behind her bastard husband. He's miles away now, as our tradeship Esmeralda plies herself down the coast.\n [...] \nAnyway, Emily's set up a cozy bunk for us in the bow galley.\n" Readables. Like the briefing, a readable often tells a story and should be well-ordered to present to the AI. I’ve chosen to skip hints for these. "#str_20024" ==> "#str_fm_airpocket_xd_sheet_appointment_to_service_pg2__title" "Further Instructions\n" "#str_20025" ==> "#str_fm_airpocket_xd_sheet_appointment_to_service_pg2_body" "\n\n\n\nAs agreed, the 2 new crewmates will bunk in the galley, and share the sea trunk nearest the door in the mess.\n\nCaptain Riggs\n" Inventory (mainly keys). The hints for these are usually just the full text, in lower case with punctuation dropped. They could include info about item class or difficulty, but I didn’t find it necessary here. "#str_20021" ==> "#str_fm_map_inv_key_captains_cabin" "Captain's Cabin" (I’ve went with “...fm_map...” here instead of “...fm_airpocket_map...”. I hope that works out. Too bad “map” itself has multiple TDM meanings, e.g., “hungarian.map”; in-game map. Also, since the order in which these inventory items are discovered in the game is pretty variable, I decided not to embed a numeral to force ordering.) Objectives. The objectives as coded in the .map file (and so generated english.lang #str_ numbers) are generally not listed in objective number order. It’s helpful to so reorder the rows. Also, because there are more than 9 objectives, I added a leading “0” to those with a single digit, for lexical ordering. The “obj<num>” is the DR/.map-internal objective number, which loosely corresponds to presentation to the game player, although objectives come and go. "#str_20008" ==> "#str_fm_map_obj01_no_hurt_or_loot_crew" "Rile neither the captain nor crew. No assaults by me or gratuitous thieving... not that there's much to steal." Thought messages. The I18N.pl script did not catch these, so they are manually added (and there’s no #str_2xxxx to begin with). I included an ordering digit after “msg”, roughly reflecting game occurrence (though difficulty and player actions will affect which of these appear and when): "fm_map_thought_msg1_sword_stolen" "My sword's been pilfered... I'm not surprised. It's likely still on-board somewhere." Ordering the Strings The #str_ lines in “english.lang” are extracted and put into ASCII alphanumeric order. I used Notepad++ with Edit/Line Operations/Sort Lines Lexigraphically Ascending. Any full-line grouping comments (beginning with //) will need to be manually repositioned after this. Programmatic Ideas to Better Support Renaming This would be helpful: A program that took the original 5-digit #str form of english.lang, and the renamed-#str english.lang form, and did the surgery on <fm>.map and *.xd . Or alternatively you could make a version of english.lang with an extra tab-separated field; this is what I created manually as a reference for myself, with lines like: "#str_20003" "#str_fm_map_inv_key_sea_trunk" "Sea Trunk" Then have a program that took that and did the surgery, using the first 2 fields. Or most ambitious of all, a version of I18N.pl that created alphanumeric #str_ in the first place, instead of 5-digit ones. Using something like the naming scheme above, this is mostly straightforward. However, for strings that are long sentences, if you still wanted to automatically summarize them into a few words for the #str <hint>, you’d probably need to call upon AI. Next Up I’ll make a version of this data available a little later on. Next post: prompt engineering!

That's correct but many people just use the in-game mission downloader to check for new stuff without even looking at the forums, which is what I did. In the past a lot of missions that required a newer version of the game executable and assets would tell you this when you tried to start them up. I was just reporting on this and that you don't need to reinstall, just update via tdm_updater if you find this issue.

Maybe it's interesting if you would integrate the Player Lamp mod into your mission. Just an idea. Latest version is 0.5 What I understood it's basically a Doom3-style lamp, which is using a weapon slot. So if you need a weapon you have to switch.

Aight well if I'm poking around posting fm reviews, code change suggestions, and asking for tech help I might as well also put up my work. Putzing around with DarkRadiant is quite fun. Not sure when or if I will produce a full map but, considering that I haven't touched dromed or made maps for other games before, I'm really happy with what I've got so far. Kudos to the tooling designers for making something reasonably idiot-friendly. One of the first things the A-Z tutorial tells you is to not use 0 0 0 for ambient lighting, and I immediately said nuts to that lol. I'm really enjoying the harsh darkness and the contrast from light sources. I didn't intend for it to happen, but I've ended up with something that looks like it crawled straight out of TDS. It also makes traversing the level have an interesting trade off - you need light to see, but enemies can see you carrying it and if its in your hands you have to drop it to pull out the bow or mantle stuff. I'm trying to build a whole level around this "mechanic"/"gimmick".

@High John most of this I'll put in spoilers: In closing - my missions are designed to be on the challenging side. My favorite type of missions are ones where the challenge is in trying to progress to the next area (i.e. player vs architecture). I don't like key hunts hence the barred doors. Usually the path can be found with careful observation in all directions (including vertically, which people tend to forget), and use of your spyglass. Either way, I want everyone to enjoy my missions so the feedback is always welcome, and thanks for taking the time to play and comment!

I have got to the end, and found it very challenging and enjoyable. Much appreciated. Some general feedback. 1) The first time I found the Warwick Tower caretaker, I didn't find what I needed to go the next step in the Tower. I went back later, expecting there to be a master key I failed to spot. Which you might expect a caretaker to have. Only because I read in this thread there was a did I know to look for one. A hint in a readable would have seemed appropriate (or did I miss it?) 2) On the outward trip to Fishend, the game was semi-linear, which I found helpful, because it was not always straightforward how to progress to the next area. a) Early on it was evident that the next step was to get into the Art Dealers. b) And when I first reached the Armoury, there seemed no way forward. But because I knew there had to be one, and other options I tried didn't work, I eventually worked out what the route had to be. 3) I eventually found the room with Should I have guessed? Based on ethnicity? 4) I read in this thread what to do about the Clarice objective, but couldn't make it work. So gave up, since it was optional. 5) I did this on Difficult, but only found 7200 out of the target 8000 loot. So clearly I missed stuff, and that's on me. But at least that Objective was optional too.

I just noticed you included a / in there, because Godot uses / for all paths, and all path validity checks just failed when I was testing the code. I'm presuming I don't need to worry about it, as the zip file will probably always contain the compatible one, and it may be ok to not check for that character. But I'm a bit confused at how / causes problems, though, so I'm not sure what to think. The python version uses \ instead (I think), which may be why I never noticed this before, but maybe that's because I'm on windows. If that's the case, then it will misreport every path as invalid on linux.

Hrm I wasn't able to type on *after* the spoiler and accidentally already submitted the reply.. (Does this forum somewhere have a raw mode where you type text with tags around them or something instead of this broken WYSIWYG editor?) Anyway, what I was gonna add: This was a great mission and I already played Away1 - I'm really looking forward to Away2, want to see how the story goes on

That's a fantastic map! I really liked it atmosphere and feel, very calm, mysterious and just pushing you to explore it at your own pace. I really liked that there aren't many dangers. Attention to details and decorations are also extraordinary, the city left a very pleasant expression. I finished the mission, but found very little, and my mind gets back to it regularly, so I will definitely revisit it later to find all that is there. Now, I would be very glad for some help. Two puzzles intrigued me the most.

Steampunk esque spider https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/17/science/spiders-deep-sea-methane-new-species" "First methane-powered sea spiders found crawling on the ocean floor"

Starting the Conversion with I18N.pl Folks have found that it is best to do the conversion only when an FM is complete, which is certainly the case here. As a prerequisite, I installed and tested Strawberry Perl on my Win11 dev box. It worked this time, unlike in the distant past on a different, Win10 machine, where I tried and failed for 3 days to get it to work. Then, as specified in our wiki’s I18N page, I set up a directory with the airpocket.pk4, and a copy of TDM 2.13 strings/english.lang. (The wiki specification missed that last step, which I corrected.) Running the I18N.pl script generated the expected results in its “output” folder: an altered airpocket.pk4 and new airpocket_l10n.pk4. Within both, a /strings/ folder was now present with just an english.lang file, with 28 #str_ entries, covering: maps/airpocket.map xdata/airpocket.xd xdata/mission_briefing.xd darkmod.txt readme.txt However, I believe #str_ support for the last 2 was never implemented (and the output version of those files don’t include #str_ s). So this will be lowest priority for me. Also, I don’t see any auto-generated #str_ for the 5 player “thought messages”. Probably need to add these. English text for these is in the .map file (found by searching for tdm_message_no_art).

Im ok with it but it is getting a bit long in the teeth for a ryzen 5900x even the low cost ryzen models have plenty power to drive this card. I would have used my 3070 instead but with 8gb im running into some rather annoying texture loading problems. So a 16gb model will be next project but the lower end while having plenty vram are just not worth upgrading to with such a small percentage. Guess ill donate a kidney for a 9070 or 5070

I'm on mobile so can't compare the syntax but it looks right; that would show up in dr in the root just called btest. Should show up regardless of correct format. Edit: Just got home and tested it and it shows up fine copied directly from here. If you want it to appear in sound/sfx/world/ inside DarkRadiant you need to edit it as: sfx/world/btest { description "Made by boilerdunce" global omnidirectional looping sound/sfx/world/btest.wav }

I appreciate that, it's half of what I need with regard to custom sounds. I already have the sndshd written up, the format is copied over and everything, its just that nothing appears. I put a sound in sound/sfx/world, i put a sndshd in sound, and it just does not appear in the resources list when I click the Choose sound... button in the s_shade property of the speaker. Custom folders don't appear there either. What am I doing wrong btest { description "Made by boilerdunce" global omnidirectional looping sound/sfx/world/btest.wav }

Apply a thin layer of nodrawsolid with your desired sound over the top. Another option: if there's a texture that you always want to have a custom sound, then modify the material definition and add or change the surface type. Example, if you want the "/darkmod/wood/boards/dark_redwood" texture to sound like stone, clone the default material definition to make a new one, and change it: textures/darkmod/wood/boards/dark_redwood_sounds_like_stone { stone diffusemap textures/darkmod/wood/boards/dark_redwood } If you use that texture it'll always sound like stone. No need for a nodrawsolid.

Apply a thin layer of nodrawsolid with your desired sound over the top. If you want to use custom sounds, you need to create a .sndshd text file that points to it, or just copy one from the base mod and change it to your file path. You can unzip .pk4s to edit the contents, just make sure you include anything you change under a different name in your mission .pk4 so it doesn't overwrite the base mod.

After doing loads of Thief Gold and Thief II missions in the last year or so, I decided to play a TDM mission again, for a change. I'm not sure if it has to do with this particular mission, and the loads of marble floors in it, but, wow... I had my issues with blackjacking before, but, now, even with the indicator on, I miss 9 of 10 K.O.'s, and I have no idea why. Really, this game seriously needs a revision of the hitbox/blackjacking system. It's the biggest crap anyone has ever invented. Maybe someone will tell the person responsible that these systems need a certain amount of tolerance one day. Like, why create a system which is THAT finicky with distances or the area you hit, when most people play on a single screen anyway, where you simply can't measure distance well? Back to Thief fan missions, I guess...

well that's interesting i havent had much luck triggering it without broadhead arrow, amazing to see that you can do it without arrow here is the video on how i did that with a wooden thing (how do you call it ? a wooden slat? i think that's not even remotely close . This was on Volta 3 anyway sometimes I don't want to file a bug report because I'm waiting for someone who has found a similar bug to chip-in first and i gotta do google search legwork for similar bug, there has to be a precursor for this thing