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Suppose we had a system like this: "verbosity story" are small width=0 by default "verbosity speech" are small width=1 by default The default of either can be overridden on a per-subtitle basis by using new option "-smallWidth" or "-sw", e.g.: with verbosity story inline "something.ogg" "I've hid the gem in m'lady's knickers." -sw 1 srt "something.ogg" "something.srt" -sw 1 // sw affects all messages of this srt the same with verbosity speech (as an alternative to breaking into individual messages and using srt) inline "yetmore.ogg" "I need to cast that spell tonight after midnight,\nbut once again, my supply of eye-of-newt is sadly depleted." -sw 0 #define FIELD_MARGIN is not anywhere official yet, just in my prototype tdm_subtitles_common.gui, hidden in yesterday's post. The values I show are from my analysis and testing, earlier reported in this thread and/or AI Barks.

Hazard Pay has subtitles for in-game conversations. The briefing is a video with text, although its not using the subtitle system.

Here's a screen shot of an FM I've been building to help test/review subtitles for an AI, in reproducible order with 100% coverage. It uses the TDM-distributed .ogg files, but has custom soundshaders. Each such soundshader wraps exactly one .ogg file, and has a uniform naming that includes an index number. The collection of soundshaders is housed in a single file. The hope is that that (prior to embedment in the FM) this file can be easily generated from a directory listing of the .ogg files for a particular AI, and subsequent manipulation. There are 3 buttons to step through the file. After each button press, you hear the vocal and see the subtitle. Also, briefly the index number within the list appears (a floating "7" near the statue's shoulder in this screenshot.) You can also - using a custom CVar in the console - jump to a particular index number. Unsurprisingly, you can't edit the subtitle within the FM. Just note what needs changing and do it with a text editor. Also, this FM is not intended to evaluate TDM's stock soundshaders, nor AI lip syncing (so just a statue speaking here.) If you hit the buttons fast enough, multiple sound files play at once, and multiple subtitle fields appear (up to the max of 3 the .gui offers)

I finished this mission. Great mission. It's interesting to play this after having played Braeden Church first. I made the subtitle files. Unzip it in the folder of the fm. I also tested it in-game. If a couple of people will review it over time, it might be enough to include it at some point. It's actually only 3 sentences (2 inline, 1 srt). Edit: subtitles added to mission.

COPIED FROM "English Language Subtitles for AI Barks". MORE RELEVANT HERE... @datiswous, I imagine the TDM fonts don't support bold, italics, underline, etc. Maybe just different sizes. I don't think color by itself would be helpful for speaker identification, unless there was a color halo or name tag above each vocalizing AI. Might be useful for word emphasis, though. @stgatilov, if there is location data available to the subtitle code, that could be used in various ways, using a different GUI: 1) Let the 3 slots be either left justified, centered, or right justified, depending on relative speaker location (including off screen). This could be implemented by 9 actual windowDefs (all of same size; 3 each for each current slot, overlaid, with each of the 3 justifications.) Alternatively, with a 3x3 grid, all windowDefs the same size, but 1/3 the current width.) 2) Or instead, at the top edge of each slot, show a short horizontal bar, whose left/right position is moved to be under the relevant AI. If off screen, add an arrow head (<-- or -->). Naming is harder, if the subtitle code can't get at that info. Though at the point the sound engine is passed the sound to render, presumably it knows the speaker, and could independently and in parallel visualize the name information (particularly if the sound engine passed back which GUI slot it was going to use for subtitle.) It is true that associating a name (say, using a small tab-like field) with a slot is less useful when the player doesn't know the AI names (i.e., with no floating names above the characters). If the technical issues of naming could be overcome, then there's still the question of when you'd want to give a name (Rupert) versus type (thug #3) versus generic (speaker #2). Also have to handle special cases of (narrator) and (player). Dreaming... Instead of text names, more fun would be to show a thumbnail face of each AI next to their slot. With a question-mark face when they are off-screen?

@datiswous, I imagine the TDM fonts don't support bold, italics, underline, etc. Maybe just different sizes. I don't think color by itself would be helpful for speaker identification, unless there was a color halo or name tag above each vocalizing AI. Might be useful for word emphasis, though. @stgatilov, if there is location data available to the subtitle code, that could be used in various ways, using a different GUI: 1) Let the 3 slots be either left justified, centered, or right justified, depending on relative speaker location (including off screen). This could be implemented by 9 actual windowDefs (all of same size; 3 each for each current slot, overlaid, with each of the 3 justifications.) Alternatively, with a 3x3 grid, all windowDefs the same size, but 1/3 the current width.) 2) Or instead, at the top edge of each slot, show a short horizontal bar, whose left/right position is moved to be under the relevant AI. If off screen, add an arrow head (<-- or -->). Naming is harder, if the subtitle code can't get at that info. Though at the point the sound engine is passed the sound to render, presumably it knows the speaker, and could independently and in parallel visualize the name information (particularly if the sound engine passed back which GUI slot it was going to use for subtitle.) It is true that associating a name (say, using a small tab-like field) with a slot is less useful when the player doesn't know the AI names (i.e., with no floating names above the characters). If the technical issues of naming could be overcome, then there's still the question of when you'd want to give a name (Rupert) versus type (thug #3) versus generic (speaker #2). Also have to handle special cases of (narrator) and (player). Dreaming... Instead of text names, more fun would be to show a thumbnail face of each AI next to their slot. With a question-mark face when they are off-screen?

I agree that the current system would allow any of the TDM-supported languages (English or otherwise) in the subtitle strings. But this would still be a relatively fixed choice of subtitle language (e.g., German instead of English). As you say, a design is needed of how to support making the choice of translation language reflect the settings language. Otherwise, we might end up with "language subtitle packs" for each FM that have to be manually installed/manipulated. I'll revisit that wording tomorrow.

If the "mission fails as soon as stealth score turns non-zero," that would not be good for ghost players. They might need to find out "how" they failed and experiment to avoid alerting guards. They might need to take those score points as a "bust". They might need to take those score points to complete an objective. Then, mission authors would need to encode exceptions into their missions, which would be a lot of work (if they decide to do it at all). However, part of what makes ghosting challenging and fun is when mission authors do not create their missions with ghosting in mind. Please see: Official Ghosting Rules: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148523 Writing code for these rules would be a huge undertaking. Ghost Rules Discussion: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148487 Creating an official mode could alienate these dedicated ghost players, because it would clash with what is considered ghosting in the community. Including the Stealth Stat Tool mod in the official release would be more useful. Or, making the audible alert states of guards quick and easy to recognize could help as well. For these reasons, I don't agree with an official "Ghost" mode. If the dev team were to do it, we should consult with @Klatremus so we get it 100% correct or not pursue it at all. (This ghosting bit should probably be in its own thread.)

Mostly yes. For those subtitle sets I've released so far, the remaining steps for someone (not me) are - - optionally do a second QA pass. (I've tried to be careful and thorough, of course.) - fold them into the 2.12dev distribution. This mainly involves deciding where the subtitles for each voice should live when distributed and copying the .subs and .srt files there. It may also involve editing the .subs file to change paths accordingly. That edit is just a find/replace-all, so easy. There are additional gui presentation issues, which are (I hope) unlikely to affect the foregoing. About those issues: experimentation and discussion are on-going, and ideally may be resolved before the final 2.12 release. Also, regarding barks emitted by the player and by non-human AI... unclear to me how they should be categorized ("verbosity speech" vs "verbosity effects" vs ignore). In any event, I don't expect to get to them in a 2.12 timeframe. BTW, I'll be traveling this coming week as well as later in the month, so will be periodically unresponsive.

With TDM 2.12, after the credits finished, the "Mission Complete" screen did not display. I found that the screen was black and I could hear my footsteps when I tried to move around. I think the reason for the mission not completing successfully was that the "Do not kill or harm allies" objective was never marked as "1 = STATE_COMPLETE" instead it was left as "0 = STATE_INCOMPLETE". Note, I didn't use noclip throughout the mission. Same as: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18054-fan-mission-the-accountant-2-new-in-town-by-goldwell-20160509/&do=findComment&comment=458491

How about using TDM automation framework (and maybe pcem/qemu)? More info see: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/19828-automation-features-and-discussion/

@stgatilov, attached is a screen shot of what I'm calling the "sound source cue" or "sound source oval" directional indicator. Unlike the previous Photoshopped mockup, this is implemented as a prototype in gui script. It shows a cropped screenshot of the 3 stacked subtitle slots, with a red dot indicating the direction, respectively (from the bottom slot) left of player, straight in front of player, and straight behind player. Those locations are simply hard-coded by local float variables dot0_x, dot0_y, dot1_x, dot1_y, dot2_x, dot2_y. I need the engine to supply those as gui globals instead. (You can change the names as you wish). Once I have a 2.12dev update with those variables (and please, the verbosity enumeration too, that we talked about), then I'll do another pass to optimize the art and tweak the dot positioning and size. That's better done when dynamic dot movement is available. For the next go around, it might be sufficient if the engine just provided the direction as a unit vector, in which case the engine-side assert is: square_root(dot_x^^2 + dot_y^^2) = 1.0 Later, we could play around and see about encoding distance too. In which case the "=" in that assertion would be replaced by "<=". Do you think that "sound source cue" should be something the user can turn on or off as an option? If so, that's another gui global to pass, probably a cvar.

I dom't use it, i found it here with the filter set to OpenSource. the TOS and PP isn't excluding for an OpenSource app, if they use ads mean that they also need to pay an server for this online service. OpenSource is not synonymous with free either, perhaps after the beta phase it is no longer free, so perhaps you can take advantage of the fact that it is still free to create a series of textures that can be used or search another one in Futuretools. AI generated textures and assets, by definition, don't have any copyright, so you can use them as you want. https://www.futuretools.io/?pricing-model=free|open-source&tags-n5zn=gaming

In the kdenlive subtitle editor, use the "End" counter to adjust the subtitle phrase end point. Then export to an .srt file, and look within that file. Does the phrase have the same specified endtime, or has it been changed? The latest Cadet release version, 2.0.044 of April 14, incorporates the beta. The main feature added was that, if you go into Tool/Preferences, there's a new line "Show cc reading rate with alarm threshold of [...] in units of [CPS or WPM]". There's also a bit more flexibility in how to advance from one phrase to the next. BTW, I found the Cadet project feature adds no value. I just (re)use an anonymous project, and export the .srt. If later I need to adjust something, I can use "Import" of the .srt to do so. If I strongly needed a tool that had speech-to-text capabilities, I would not use Cadet. Since I've got preexisting text for the vocal sets I'm currently processing, I'm not needing speech-to-text right now.

@datiswous, as to where to place linebreaks, I found the "Line Division" section of this webpage to be useful guidance: https://dcmp.org/learn/597-captioning-key---text (For my Style Guide Part 2 - planned for year-end release - I have a very similar section, just with the subtitle examples changed to use typical TDM barks and centered justification.)

To cater to both audiences. I mentioned LibreGameWiki as one example. nbohr1more mentioned other uses. Explicitly allowing reuse and spread will help TDM reach a wider audience and would hopefully attract more volunteers. More volunteers which can help improve both TDM versions. There are several benefits for a project of being in the Debian repo. One is that TDM Debian-users can report defects on any package directly to Debian (no need to register on separate forums). Debian may then fix the issue themselves (in their "TDM-libre" package) and will offer the patch upstream to TDM, who can then choose to accept or reject the patch. I envision "TDM-libre" to have the same capability of downloading any mission as regular TDM. The only difference is that "TDM-libre" would come packaged with the regular engine (which is GPL+BSD) and an included mission that has libre media/gamedata. When I play TDM by myself, I want the unlimited-play and can accept commercial restrictions. But if I were to promote it somewhere, or charge for a stream when playing online, or make a video, I would want a version without commercial restrictions (and can temporarily accept limited-play) to make sure I don't violate anyone's copyright. Perhaps. That's what I'm trying to find out.

hm.. I wonder if that's what I did.. Would be kind of a stupid mistake. But I often make small mistakes while creating subtitle files, which then take a while to figure out.

I suggest you use the term "I", to make clear that it is something YOU want, and that you speak for yourself. But, as wesp5 mentioned, I don't really know what this is about, at all. And, I'm also wondering about all the newly registered people lately, who just arrived at this forum, and already want to revolutionize this mod. This is a thing I noticed 2 or 3 years ago, and which hasn't been present in the 15 years I play this mod and frequent these forums now. Really seems like a common thing these days, to not knock on the door, but kick it in, and stomp right in.

The subtitle cvars are not for user configuration, they are internal. They would change only if if TDM developer decides that... if player changes that, it would be his problem. Just like very many cvars which are totally not for the user to change. I just committed it in svn rev 10358, so expect it to arrive... I guess I'll publish dev build this weekend. I decided that options always start with minus, while commands always start with letter. That's how parsing can work in well-defined way, regardless of linebreaks. The final syntax is: -durationExtend 0.5 -dx 0.4 Also, for now it only work on inline comments (warning and subtitle removal when applied to SRT).

TDM has tons of textures from "free" texture resources that do not allow redistribution and cannot be incorporated into a commercial project. Someone would need to create a huge replacement pack of textures that do not break the look of existing missions and do not infringe on the copyrighted textures. Also, many artists who contributed to this project do not want 3rd party entities to use their work in commercial projects. They intended the models, textures, sounds, animations to be exclusively used for Darkmod content. You would either have to replace ALL assets or contact every contributor and ask them to re-license their assets. Many contributors are no longer active with the project and haven't visited the forums in years so it would be no easy feat. I cannot speak to Debian policy but I think that they treat installers that add non-free content the same as non-free content itself. One could argue that Steam is such an installer but I guess Debian would counter that there are a few fully Libre games on Steam. I think Debian, Ubuntu, or Linux Mint need to consider a repo that allows for games (etc) that include non-libre content but intentionally offer this content for free to the community with no stipulations other than "don't try to sell it as a product".

The gamepad implementation allows for a great degree of flexibility to personalize settings, aside from a few minor issues that I mentioned here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/22337-gamepad-bindings/ I would say that playing TDM with a gamepad works very well, especially considering that it was implemented as experimental and hasn't been changed since then. If I could, I'd go back to 2021-you and congratulate you on buying that gamepad. I notice that your DarkmodPadbinds.cfg looks very different from mine...

It seems like more and more "thief" and "thief players" is becoming a short hand to dismiss community members earnest desire to improve the game - which happens to be a barely legally distinct "thief style" game which was made by thief fans for thief fans and is "designed to simulate the stealth gameplay of Thief". Who is the predominant player base of the game supposed to be beyond fans of the thief games? Is there some better avenue to find feedback for the game beyond this forum? FOSS and linux forums? I have seen maybe half a dozen posts from that segment. I am a thief fan, I play thief fms, my association with those games is what drives me to play and make things for this game. Are we supposed to pretend the original games are not a huge reason why most of us are here at all? TL;DR version:

As for implementation: Let's say the engine generated a sound source location (relative to the listener's axis, and only in the horizontal plane) as a unit vector in Cartesian coordinates. That is, the origin is at 0,0 and straight ahead is 0,1 straight behind is 0,-1 due left is -1,0 due right is 1,0 This would be passed to the gui as floats, e.g., soundDirN_x, soundDirN_y, where N is the subtitle slot number. The gui would take care of translating the origin and scaling the vector. For the oval, the scale factor would be different in the x and y directions. (This is an approximation of actual location on the perspective projection of a tilted circle, but should be good enough. And avoids any trig functions on the gui side)

Mandrasola is a small sized map in which aspiring thief Thomas Porter steals some herbal products from a smuggler. The mission was created by me, Sotha and I wish to thank Bikerdude, BrokenArts and Ocn for playtesting and voice acting. Thanks goes naturally to everyone contributing and making TDM possible. This mission occurs chronologically before the Knighton's Manor, making it the first mission in the Thomas Porter series. Events in chronological order are: Mandrasola, The Knighton's Manor, The Beleaguered Fence, The Glenham Tower and The Transaction. The winter came early and suddenly this year. Weeks of strong blizzards and extremely harsh cold weather hit Bridgeport hard. With the seas completely frozen, a rare occurence indeed, most of the City harbor commerce has stopped completely. Vessels are stuck in the ice and no ship can leave or enter the City, resulting in the availability imported goods declining and their prices skyrocketing. One of these imported items is Mandrasola, a rare herbal product, which is imported overseas from the far southern continents. Mandrasola has its uses in alchemical cures and poisons, but mostly this substance is used for its narcotic qualities by commoners and even the nobility. The problem with Mandrasola is that excessive use is extremely addicting and the withdrawal effects are most grievious. Many are utterly incapable of stopping using Mandrasola and are transformed into quivering human ruins if they do no get their daily dose. And now this expensive and rare substance is running out from the whole City. Me and my fence, Lark Butternose, would love to grab this monopoly to ourselves: selling the last few doses in the City would probably be worth a fortune. According to Lark's sources, there remains only one smuggling lord who still has Mandrasola in stock. The problem is that this individual maintains an exclusive clandestine operation and only supplies a few nobles. Despite our best information gathering efforts we couldn't learn who the smuggler is and where he or she operates. Luckily we have an alternate plan. While searching for Mandrasola related information, we learned that a noblewoman called Lady Ludmilla is addicted to the substance and has paid high prices for small amounts of it. We also know that she has visited frequently someone in the Tanner's Ward waterfront, and since she goes to the area personally we believe she is visiting the smuggler. The plan is simple: I must monitor Ludmilla's most likely entryway to the Waterfront and then follow her to the smugglers hideout. I'd better be very careful around Ludmilla. She must not realise I'm following her or she probably won't lead me to her dealer. Hurting her is also out of the question. After she leads me to the smuggler's hideout, I can take my time to break in carefully and steal all the Mandrasola I can find. While I'm there it wouldn't be a bad idea to grab some loose valuables as well. I've now waited in the blistering cold for a few hours already. Looks like there are a few city watch patrols in the area to complicate matters... I think I heard a womans voice beyond the north gate. That must be lady Ludmilla, I haven't seen many ladies in these parts. I'd better get ready.. Links: Use the ingame downloader to get it. WARNING! Someone always fails to use spoiler tags. I do not recommend reading any further until you've played the mission.