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NoClip has put out a fantastic retrospective of the Thief games that interviews a lot of the creators on how the game was designed. Edit: New things I learned (or had forgotten & learned again)... - The whole magic system was geared around the 4 elements, which they later played down as such, but they also made up the original arrows, air/gas, water, earth/moss, fire... But noise & rope arrows were too useful to leave out. - A major design idea was "active stealth", one idea of which was creating distractions and negotiating "safe spaces", and a major inspiration was Ken Levine's experience with sub sims, where you can release noise makers and use thermal layers to slip past, both of which had natural extensions in Thief gameplay. - The other game LGS was making right at the same time as TDP was a Golf game. For that game, they had to fill a lot of dead space with commentator patter, which fed directly into using guard patter to fill time since the player was avoiding most things. - I also respected Randy's postmortem of TDS. It was pretty clear he was just as crushed by the design flaws that the rest of the community was (the body awareness supreme backfire, the heartbreaking necessity to break up the levels to meet the XBox memory limits, the render woes & being stuck with a wonky engine, etc.), and I think he did a good job of explained how and why they happened. More or less, he made design decisions before getting all the relevant information that affected what they could do, and some decisions (like body awareness) just didn't work in practice like they may have looked on paper. I can't be too upset. Some good levels and moments still came out of that game, I still love Randy's levels & design thinking (generally), I can understand and very much sympathize with his position and (ultimately mistaken) thinking and intuitions, which I might well have gone along with myself if I were a team member, and above all ... if TDS hadn't been what it was, we probably wouldn't have Darkmod now, and I'm really, really happy we have Darkmod.

Not difficult to knock an not alerted guard (without helmets even if they alerted), only difficult to do so with officials and heavy armed ones (there is better not to try it or use an gasarrow). Way more difficults with undeth and holy water, the need often 3 or more shots to bring them down. This should be somewhat easier.

Creating a new thread for this as it was being discussed in an old beta-testing thread starting here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/&do=findComment&comment=490751 I suppose the main questions are: when should this spawnarg be used, if at all? why was it introduced in the first place? Can we get it documented properly on the Wiki so misuse isn't propagated? @stgatilov @Dragofer

I think we should first decide what do we want TOS for: To protect TDM from legal issues? To protect TDM team from angry mappers in case of conflicts? To guide mission authors in their work? In my opinion TOS should only cover legal issues, and wiki articles about making/releasing missions should cover author guidance. The chance of getting malware in a mission only increases after we write this publicly. Better don't even mention it, we are completely unprotected against this case. By the way, isn't it covered by "illegal" clause? I'm not sure this is worth mentioning, but I guess @demagogue knows better. By the way, which jurisdiction defines what is legal and what is not? Isn't it enough to mention that we will remove a mission from the database if legal issues are discovered? I think this is worth mentioning simply because mappers can easily do it without any malicious intent. We already had cases of problematic assets, so better include a point on license compatibility. It is a good idea to remind every mapper that this is a serious issue. I also recall some rule like "a mission of too low quality might be rejected". In my opinion, it is enough. You will never be able to pinpoint all possible cases why you might consider a mission too bad in terms of quality. And even the specifics mentioned here already raise questions. Having such a rule is already politics. I feel it does not save us from political issues but entangles us into them. If there is a mission which contains something really nasty, it will cause outrage among the community (I believe our most of active forum members are good people). If people are angry, they will tell the mission author all they think about it. And if the author won't change his mind, he will eventually leave TDM community. Then the mission can be removed from the database, perhaps with a poll about the removal. But it sounds like an exceptional case, it is hard to predict exceptional cases in advance. This is not even terms of service, but a technical detail about submissions. The mission should be accompanied by 800 x 600 screenshots. Or we can make them ourselves if you are OK with it. This is again purely technical, and I'm not even sure why it is needed. Isn't it how TDM works? If mapper does not override loading gui file, then default one is taken from core? Is it even worth mentioning? I think we should discuss mission updates by other people in general. This is worth mentioning so that mappers don't feel deceived. The generic rule is that we don't change missions without author's consent. But it is unclear how exactly we should try to reach the author if we need his consent. PM on TDM forums? Some email address? However, sometimes I do technical changes to ensure compatibility of missions with new versions of TDM. Especially since the new missions database has made it rather easy to do. Luckily, I'm not a mapper/artist, so I never fell an urge to replace model/texture or remap something. But still, it is gray zone. On the other hand, I think the truth is: we can remove a mission from database without anyone's consent. I hope it has never happened and will not happen, but I think this is the ultimate truth, and mentioning this sad fact might cover a lot of the other points automatically.

Yeah I'm aware of the use cases - I mainly used it for particles and preventing models from showing up through walls. The point of the thread was to reveal why it was even created, as the thread I linked contains advice from @stgatilov to NOT use it at all: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/21822-beta-testing-high-expectations/page/10/#findComment-490707 If that's the advice, an explanation is needed and the Wiki updated.

Hmm, that is a sound explanation to me But yeah, as you pointed out, we are so used to aesthetic conventions from other dark fantasy games, Souls and souls-likes included, that when something looks brand-new, we immediately get sceptical about it. Another thing might be conventions and tricks used when making materials. Quite long ago, I've heard an advice regarding diffuse and specular texture relationship: first off, to take care about all kinds of damage and imperfections that can be seen from any angle, and these typically will be included on both textures: rust, heavy dirt, dry/wet parts, etc. When you're done with that, think about imperfections that could go to specular texture only, things that are visible typically from acute/obtuse angles, with specular highlight doing its work most: dust, micro-scratches, fingerprints, minor water smudges, etc. That really makes a material look interesting So I'm probably biased because of that, and, since artists in other games use these tricks really well too, when I see a material without a specular, or reflection without any mask, my first reaction is like ewww... But that's just me, I guess

It looks like the inventor guild will need more funding to produce more respirators and gas masks and players will spend half of their loot just to buy those (on player side). Don't forget to make a recurring vision blackout animation when Corby can no longer stand the smell. The inventor guild should also create a parfume potion to eliminate the stench in minutes (on player side) Another idea is to allow players to carry spare robes for infiltration, imagine that much and heavy loot alone can fit and can be carried by players everywhere, let alone just a robe? 1 more idea: The thief take a shower in a place that is being infiltrated by applying the principle of stealth, the sound of splashing shower water can be heard by guards " A sewer never looked so appealing" ~garrett " lord's manor bathroom never looked so appealing"

I would like to see something happening when you get out of water. Sounds, slow movement, watery footsteps, etc.

HAHA, yes it can be really challenging, picking them off one by one and sneaking away with the body to not rise maximum alert. The wait till they all sit down again and get the next one. Shooting candles of of tables with normal arrows when you want to spare the water arrows. I had real fun in Jack's mission Blood & Metal killing the flames of the torch carrying guards, wait till the get to their normal path again, and then clubbing them from the front/walking towards you, in a dark place XD It's also a sport to allert more guards, lure them to one place and get multiple with one gass arrow. There is just one thing I like more then knocking out NPC's, and that is locking them up/out by blocking a door or narrow path with moveables so they won't hinder me anymore in exploring (a certain area). @all Is your goal to meet the objectives, or to explore and find everything? I like to explore, and when it's a really good map I just walk around wondering (after knocking/blocking everyone), and enjoy the build, while searching for the remaining hidden (in plain sight) stuff. Some missions you just don't want to end : )

You think the missions in question were too difficult - other think they are easy. Both perceptions are valid because that is a subjective thing. In its core this is a stealth game and thus I design the missions for sneaking and there are multiple possibilities to do so by using moos arrows, water arrows, throwing items, extinguishing candles, looking for alternative ways, learning patrols, etc. . But we are going too much off topic here and as stated above I am with you when it comes to saving the game.

If you can do this, I don't know how. But it's something I want as well and was actually going to raise it as a feature request. I think speakers are spherical so they model real sound which radiates from a source outwards. I find this doesn't work so well with some scenarios though: water. For example you want to hear the sound of waves lapping a shoreline or a running water sound for a stream, river or canal. If the shoreline or stream is on the longer side, you have to have a speaker with a huge radius to cover it and the sounds extends too far along perpendicular to the body of water. Or alternatively multiple speakers but then you have to manage overlap and it becomes a pain. wind. Same idea but vertical - if you have a long edge or balcony then you need a large radius speaker to cover it and it might extend too low so you hear wind noises on the ground. @Petike the Taffer If all you want is for a sound to fill a room, just use the location system ambients instead. But you can only have one sound I think, so you couldn't have say your ambient music and also a weather sound at the same time without using a speaker for one of them.

Hello, all. This thread is meant as a follow-up companion piece to my previous thread listing royalty-free music by Kevin MacLeod that could be usable for new missions for The Dark Mod. In this thread, I take a slightly different approach. Instead of focusing on one author and his royalty-free music, I'll be writing an ever-expanding list of songs, compositions tracks and ambients by various musical artists that could come in useful for mission makers working on FMs for TDM. Aside from ambient music for background atmosphere, I'll also be listing some historical music and compositions from the real world's ca 14th-17th century that are in the public domain and could be used as background music in your missions, provided that someone does a royalty-free recording of them (i.e. not released on some payed-for album, but at most a royalty-free album or online collection/archive). Please note that, though I will try to provide you with links to royalty-free versions of historical compositions in particular, I sometimes might not be sure of the status of some of these recreations/recordings and you'll have to snoop around for their royalty-free status on your own. However, if you do confirm that, e.g. some freelance artist recorded a well-known 16th century piece of music, and is giving it away royalty-free, possibly with the only necessity being attribution, then please let me know and I'll include any download links and the details concerning necessary attribution. Thank you ! And now, it's time to begin... ---- Royalty-free ambients As in "free to distribute and use (though possibly with attribution)", not necessarily "free of the TDM universe royalty". Free Music Archive (FMA) From his particular website, I'll only be including tracks that have broad Creative Commons licenses or free licenses, and tracks that are suited to both Non-commercial and Commercial use. In other words, largelly CC BY 4.0 and CC BY 4.0 Deed. It's better to search for ambients and tracks that are more lenient with their licenses. Lee Rosevere - All the Answers - Awkward Silences (B) - Baldachin - Betrayal - Compassion (keys version) - Delayed Reaction - Edge of the Woods (kind of too modern sounding in parts, but maybe you could find a use for it á la some of the old grungy-sounding ambient tunes in Thief) - Expectations - Everywhere (sounds like a calm but moody mansion ambient to me) - Gone - Her Unheard Story - It's A Mystery - Not Alone - Old Regrets - Reflections - Slow Lights - Snakes - Something To Fill The Space - Thoughtful (especially the first half to first two thirds, before the more electronic beat kicks in) - The Long Journey - The Nightmare - The Past - Time to Think - Under Suspicion (maybe the bit between 2:26 and 2:48 would be the best for a tension sting, the rest sounds a bit too modern spy-fi for the TDM setting) - What's in the Barrel ? - You're Enough (A) - Maarten Schellekens - A Bit of Discomfort - Daydream - Deliverance - Free Classical Theme (arguably more like for an SF film with classical music portrayed electronically, but not bad) Salakapakka Sound System - Aiti, joku tuijottaa meita metsasta - Holle - Kadonnut jalkia jattamatta - Privatomrode i Vasteros - Syttymissyy tuntematon 1 - Syttymissyy tuntematon 2 Sawako albums - 098 (ambient for background humming and buzzing, perhaps machinery, electricity, industrial ambience, etc.) - Billy Gomberg Remix - If You're Ther (odd city ambience, between moody music and city background ambience, mild background thumping) - Lisbon ambience (maybe usable as background ambience in some mission set at a more Mediterranean city) - Mizuame (Sawako Sun) (could work as ambience for a larger baths or spa hall, with the sound of water, and human voices occassionally heard in the background) - November 25, 2007 - Snowfall - Spring Thaw - Tim Prebble Remix - UNIVERSFIELD - A Beatiful Sky (this track would actually be good for a church or cathedral interior) - A Calm Soulful Atmosphere For A Documentary Film (calm but somewhat mysterious ambient, reminds me of some of the Dishonored ambients) - A Grim Horror Atmosphere - A Music Box With A Tense Atmosphere - Atmosphere for Documentaries (rather suspensful ambient with an undertone of woodwind instruments) - Background Horror Tension - Beautiful Relaxing Ambient (a calmer ambient that's good for a location with some degree of grandeur or one that provides relief to the player) - Blood-chillingly Creepy Atmospheres - Bloody - Cloaked in Mystery - Corpse Rot - Crime City - Dark Background - Deep Space Exploration (has a nice atmosphere of mystery and exploration) - Drifting in Harmony (calm but suspensful ambient) - Embrace of the Mist - Exoplanet (mysterious ambient, could work for various environments) - Exploring the Cursed Cemetery (short, fifteen second tension sting with piano) - Evening Meditation In The Open Air (could work for a number environments during evening hours) - Fading Memories - Gloomy Atmosphere for Documentaries - Gloomy Reverie - Grim Atmosphere - Horror Atmosphere (Version 2) - Horror Background Atmosphere 6 - Horror Background Atmosphere for Horror and Mystical - Horror Background Atmosphere for Scary Scenes - Horror Background Atmosphere for Suspensful Moments (1) - Horror Background Atmosphere for Suspensful Moments (2) - Horror Dark Atmosphere (Version 1) - Horror Music Box - Intergalactic Ambience (good calm theme of mystery and wonder) - In the Embrace of Darkness - Mars (suspensful ambient for a suspensful location, with a metallic undertone in its melody) - Meditation in Nature (aside from outdoor environments, could work in a number of other environments as well) - Melodies of Fear - Midnight Secrets - Mild Heaven (a calm ambient, maybe could work for night time city streets and city rooftops) - Moment of a Dream (suspensful theme, hopefully not too electronic in undertone) - Mysterious Passerby - Mystery Atmosphere - Mystery Horror - Mystery House - Mystical Dark Atmosphere - Nebula Soundscape (sounds like a good ambient for outdoor or cave environments or maybe even churches and city rooftops) - Ominous Criminal Atmosphere - Sad Emotional Piano for Documentary Films - Scary Dark Cinematic For Suspensful Moments - Scary Horror Atmosphere - Sinister Mystery - Sinister Piano Melodies (short, fifteen second tension sting with piano) - Siren's Call (I feel this one has more limited uses, though maybe it could work for suspense in an industrial environment) - Soothing Serenade (calm, soothing ambient, with a slight hint of mystery, could work for several types of environments) - Soothing Soundscapes (calm, soothing ambient, with a slight hint of mystery, could work for several types of environments) - Spooky Hallway - Suspense Atmosphere Background - Tense Dark Background - Tense Horror Atmosphere - Tense Horror Background Atmosphere - The Box of Nightmares - This Sunset (good for an evening or night time ambient, even includes subtle cricket chirping sounds) - Tropical Escapes (good for an outdoor environment with a waterfall, flowing stream or falling rain) Many of these tracks by UNIVERSFIELD are quite short, about a minute or slightly under a minute, but good as tension-building themes or as suspensful ambients. ---- Historical background music - lute and similar string instruments La Rossignol ("The Nightingale"} - a Renaissance era piece, anonymous composer. This one was written as an instrumental duet for two musicians. So, if you'd use this for a scene of AI characters playing their instruments, you should use two such characters for added believability. Here's what the composition sounds like when played as a duet on: - lute (obviously the most medieval/Renaissance instrumentation) - acoustic guitar (example 1) and acoustic guitar (example 2) - 11-string guitar what it sounds when played as a duet on an 11-string guitar - licensed album version (presumably lute) If you find any royalty-free version in good quality, let me know. Lachrimae ("Tears", sometimes known as "Seven Teares") by John Dowland - another Elizabethan era piece, by a 16th-17th century composer. Various reconstructions: - on lute (example solo performance at the Metropolitan Museum) - on lute, with vocal accompaniment (lutist and female soprano) - on lute, violas, and other (six musician ensemble performance) - on viola da gamba (five musician ensemble performance) Lachrimae Pavan ("Teary Pavane / Pavane of the Tears") by John Dowland - a variation on the previous composition, for the Renaissance pavane style dance. Various reconstructions: - on lute - on acoustic guitar (example 1), (example 2), (example 3) Again, I'd like to find a royalty-free version of these two compositions. Frog Galliard - one more by Dowland, for now. Another composition for a Renaissance dance style, the galliard. Reconstructions: - on lute (solo performance) - on lute, deeper sound (solo performance) - on acoustic guitar (example 1), (example 2), (example 3) Royalty-free version would be appreciated. Greensleeves - by an anonymous 16th century author, quite possibly a folk song of the era. Trust me, you know this one, even if you don't know the name. It's one of the most well-known bits of Renaissance secular and courtly music in the popular imagination. (Trust me, it's been referenced in everything. Even the first Stronghold game from the early 2000s had an in-game character sing a made-up ditty to the tune/melody of this song.) Reconstructions: - on lute (solo performance) - classical guitar (solo performance) - acoustic guitar (solo performance) I bet there's a royalty-free version of this one somewhere. I'll snoop around, and if you find one before I do, let me know. In taberna quando sumus ("When we are at the tavern") - anonymous period song from the 14th century, of Goliard origin. Written and sung entirely in Latin (so if you can explain Latin within the TDM setting or use only an instrumental version, go for it). An unabashed drinking song, you could use this for more rascally Builder priests/monks or for various commoners and lower-ranking noblemen while they're having a good time at the inn. A pretty well-known song even nowadays (though the most famous melody for it might be the more recent arrangement). Reconstructions: - example performance 1 - example performance 2 Again, an entirely royalty-free version of this one could come in handy. Historical background music - by Jon Sayles Jon Sayles is a musician who runs the Free Early and Renaissance Music website. His recordings are in .mp3 format (so you will need a conversion to .ogg) and Sayles has made them all freely available. The instrument he used for his musical reconstructions is the classical guitar. Some examples of Sayles' reconstructions of period music by anonymous or known authors: Saltarello, based on the late-medieval and Renaissance dance tune from Italy Madrigal by Anthony Holborne Al fonsina by Johannes Ghiselin Ich weiss nit by Ludwig Senfl So ys emprentid by John Bedyngham, mid-1400s Riu, riu, chiu, famous 15th century Spanish Christmas carol Fantasia, by Orlando Gibbons, late 16th and early 17th century Die Katzenpfote, German-speaking lands, anonymous author, 15th century A gre d'amors, 14th century, anonymous French author Nightengale (unrelated to La Rossignol), by Thomas Weelkes El Grillo, 15th to early 16th century composition by Josquin des Prez The Witches' Dance, by anonymous, Renaissance English composition Ma fin est mon comencement, by 14th century composer Guillame de Machaut In Nomine, late 15th and early 16th century composition by John Taverner Ricercare ("ricker-caré", nothing to do with rice or care), by Adrian Willaert Fantasia by Thomas Lupo, 16th-17th century English composer The Nite Watch, composed by Anthony Holborne - appropriate for TDM Plenty more where these came from... Historical background music - from the A-M Classical website This website offers plenty of freely available, royalty-free .mp3s of early and classical musical compositions and instrumental songs. The only thing you need to do is provide attribution, as everything on the site is via a Creative Commons license (this is noted on every page). Counting Christmas songs from the Middle Ages and Renaissance alone, I was able to download loads of them already years and years ago. Though they're far from epic recordings, if you're just looking for a competently done free version of these compositions, this is an excellent site. A few examples of medieval music from the A-M Classical site: Angelus ad Virginem (played quietly on organ), Diex soit en cheste maison by Adam de la Halle (organ and other instruments), Greensleeves (this is for a carol version of the lyrics, but the melody is the same as standard Greensleeves) Historical background music - by Vox Vulgaris The Swedish band/ensemble Vox Vulgaris aren't very active nowadays, but they did plenty of early music recording in the early-to-mid 2000s. From what I've read about their song releases, they're okay with others using the songs from their 2003 album and other material they've done. I don't know if their website is still around (there's an archived version) and whether you can still contact the band members, but if you'd like to be extra sure and ask, go ahead. I don't think they've changed their copyleft stance to their own works, but it pays off to be sure. So, here are some of VV's own takes on period music: Cantiga 166 - based on the eponymous song (full title "Cantiga 166 - Como póden per sas culpas (os homés seer contreitos)"), by Spanish composer Alphonso X from the 13th century (yes, king Alphonso X ! They didn't call him Alphonso the Learned for nothing). To provide you with a point of comparison, here, here and here are versions by other artists. (If I remember correctly, this particular VV song was also used by moonbo in his Requiem FM, as part of an inn's muffled background music. I did a real double-take when I played the mission for the first time and recognised it.) Cantiga 213 - based on the eponymous song (full title "Cantiga 213 - Quen sérve Santa María, a Sennor mui verdadeira"), again by Spanish composer, king Alphonso X from the 13th century. To provide you with a point of comparison, here and here are versions by other artists. Saltarello - based on the well-known melody for the Italian late-medieval Renaissance dance, the saltarello (also the saltarello trotto specifically in this case). To provide you a point of comparison, here and here are versions by other artists. La Suite Meurtrière - I can't quite source this one, it might be their own original composition, though "in the style of" some particular period music. Rókatánc (Fox Dance) - this is a really wild bit of period dance and festive music, possibly Hungarian-inspired, given the name. I think this would fit both a tavern environment or some public event for the nobility and patricians, including an armed sparring tournament or similar. Final note from me New suggestions are always welcome as I expand this thread. For any suggestions concerning Kevin MacLeod's royalty-free music, please use the other thread I've already made, purely for listing MacLeod's stuff.

@JackFarmeryour new water response might be getting counted as a separate response. Something I'd try is to transfer your new response effects to the inherited version of the water response. To do so, look at the spawnargs that mention your new effects (maybe something like "sr_response_effect6" "run_script") and change the number to the same ID as the inherited water response. Delete your own water response afterwards.

So, I wanted to build on my good experiences with the "Frob" stim/responses that are attached to all entities and find another use for them...and I failed again. Task: If the player extinguishes a certain flame (A) with a water arrow, a script should be started and A should be completely removed from the map (so that it cannot be ignited again with a fire arrow). Solution idea: Every flame has an inherited response to water/water arrows. You can also see this in the S/R editor. So I thought, I'll just add another response to water on the flame and add the desired commands. Result: It doesn't work, the script won't start and A does not get removed. What am I doing wrong? @Dragofer: Sorry for being such a pain, but this drives me crazy. @grodenglaive@Frost_Salamander: For your information...Maybe we should start an extra topic for the the whole subject...?

I played it with 0 score in difficult mode, but Ghosting, I think is too challenging at least for me in this Mission.one more Mine for the undeath would be nice, holy water isn't very efficient, too much shoots needed (>3) in TDM, not usefull when there are several undeath.

puh-ha Okay @Sotha i´ll have to give my response before having it done like i want to sadly i have to tell about my only but sure the most innocent victim in my supGhost-Run your demanded : o-Save run should be possible ! your on difficult expected Ghost-Run is possible ! a Supreme-Ghost-Run is randomly possible !?! a Zero-Save + Supreme-Ghost is impossible !!! i will go on to do a 1-Save Sup.Ghost-Run and maybe there will be only one (but the right) undead´s victim - or better none and i´ll bust my run by using one water-arrow to escape ahh - a nice hiding place if timing gets wrong

Flakebridge Monastery In this mission you will visit a Builder outpost to steal some valuable books. It is the first in what I hope will be a series about Selis Woderose. I would like to take the opportunity to thank my beta testers: Aprilsister, Bikerdude, Chiron, lost_soul, and prjames. As well as Fidcal for his starting map, and Melan for his texture pack. Known bugs: A small number may appear at the bottom left corner of your screen when the mission loads. Press sheath weapon to make it disappear. As already mentioned this is the first mission in a series. When you have completed it you may know what you'll be going after in the next mission. You may even know where! Enjoy! And please use spoiler tags where appropriate. A couple of screens: (thanks lowenz) http://2.bp.blogspot...0/shot00001.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot...0/shot00003.jpg

Ah, that needs to be fixed by sampling the depth buffer like the other water shaders do. Gonna be difficult since all 5 sample pixels need to check the depth buffer before the final blur.

@nbohr1more When I played with mirrored reflections on water I would render them at super low resolution mirrorRenderMap 128 128 Can't we just scale _currentRender down and get blur for free instead of doing the offsetting thing?

You can start here: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/12558-useful-important-editing-links/ Specifically, I recommend Springheel's new mapper's workshop: https://forums.thedarkmod.com/index.php?/topic/18945-tdm-new-mappers-workshop/

I actually forgot that there's a blurring effect in the water. It would be useful if we had a stronger version of this effect. For example if we wanted to make Casper the friendly ghost. Or crystal - I'm thinking of the scepter loot ice glass, etc. In this video I used env/gen3, works quite well here. According to the logs those were maade by @Wellingtoncrab

Some more debugging using actual debug tools on 2.12, and I've also had a better look at the history and compared the two offending versions better. The major change between version 2.06 and 2.07 is that the lightgem was moved to a separate subview (or viewport) for rendering. Most of the calculation logic was moved from LightGem.cpp to tr_subview.cpp and it was also adapted to the new system. I think I've managed to narrow it down to two core issues: 1. Positioning From what I gather, the gem position should not be adjusted or calculated in tr_subview.cpp. If the subview is only used for rendering the light gem, I presume it should not also have to deal with the logic of its positioning relative to the player/camera. Also, if that's the case, that makes it redundant, since the lightgem's position is already adjusted in LightGem.cpp. To solve this, I simply commented out the position adjustment code in tr_subview.cpp(lines 550-564), and also added the missing lg->SetOrigin( LGPos ) in LightGem.cpp. If this logic is sound, it's presumably a copy-paste artifact from when the code was being moved and adapted to subview. 2. Shadows in the light My current theory is that the player, one of its attachments, or something else entirely is casting a shadow in the VID_LIGHTGEM render layer. Now obviously, the player and the head are specifically flagged not to render their models and shadows in the subview: The only question then is what is actually casting that shadow. In the attached video you can see that this theory holds water. Since the gem only moves a little bit towards the lean position, it makes sense that the player leaning towards the light source would obscure the light and darken it. Turning away from the light makes it brighter. As a side note, player shadow being enabled/disabled has no effect on this. Sullium mentioned above that it seems to have something to do with light elevation, which is kind of true. Since the player is leaning and offsetting on a flat plane, an overhead light will exhibit this problem less than one at eye level. Now, this issue is 90% mitigated by fully moving the gem position to the camera position: However, that's not the real solution. It makes it so that when the player walks around it makes the light level very responsive, but also very jittery. I suppose the player walking/running animations are casting a shadow on the light gem when moving. It's a bit of a leap, but from what I can see it seems consistent. The light level also jitters more slowly when the player is crouching. I have no solutions for this, as I'm not yet familiar enough with the rendering system, or perhaps any rogue attachments on the player/camera. EDIT: Scratch that, I think I got it. // Added this to tr_subview.cpp:567 lightgemRv.vieworg = lg->GetPhysics()->GetOrigin(); Unpacked a fresh copy of the 2.12 source, added this line in, seems to work like a charm. I was considering that the lightgem camera might be offset from where it's actually supposed to be and then I saw that the vieworg is not set anywhere in the subview, when the view should be at the center of the gem model. It just works™. I'll remove the position adjustment in subview as stated in point 1 above, since it really does seem redundant, and test these changes on a few missions. I'll also test it out with func_peek, since I noticed an issue mentioning it.

A great little map! I always love it when simple missions have a story twist in the end and I liked this one. Like STRUNK I didn't find the intended way out though and used the same trick, so maybe you should add text to the priest's journal to hint at the lever? Also if you are going to patch the mission, I found a lot of floating rats and I agree with others that the flowing water is cool but should have a puddle at the bottom. Last not least there are some text issues unless it's intended that some notes are missing several words...

Hi, I need to know what the code is to use Spoiler Tags. I am using my tablet and I don't have the options to use anything, like spoiler tags, quote tags, text changes etc. Thanks

I've released an update for this, details here: https://github.com/FrostSalamander/lt3/releases/tag/4.0 The main change is to the reflective water material, as it was causing a performance issue in 2.13. This new version includes a new material from @nbohr1more which looks the same but doesn't cause performance issues. The release also includes a couple of bug fixes and gameplay improvements. It should be in the mission database soon, but here are download links in case anyone wants them: Proton: https://drive.proton.me/urls/FTE3WRST48#yvnLUZBtBpDD Github: https://github.com/FrostSalamander/lt3/releases/download/4.0/faffairs.pk4