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Fan Mission: The Heart of Lone Salvation by Fidcal, Baddcog & Bikerdude (2010/04/02)


Fidcal
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I'd be interested too to hear which routes people took. There are the two main routes but a few variations on them. I'd also be interested in player routes once they got inside the main building as there are about three ways in and variations on those.

 

rope-arrowed up the parapet, then rope arrowed up the archery target and scouted out the courtyard with the spyglass. dropped down into the courtyard, as the stairs down seemed a bit too well lit and patrolled for my taste. searched around for a way into the guardroom under the parapet that i saw from outside the gates, and then opened up the gates. went into the mansion proper through a staircase room, and ended up in a basement area with a locked gate. spent 10 minutes trying to lean sideways through the bars and hit the switch with broadheads rolleyes.gif . ended up ropearrowing up the bathroom to get in. decided i didn't like that entrance as i was disoriented, went back out to the courtyard, rope arrowed up to the balcony, grabbed some boards out of the staircase room (which i think were intentionally placed to be noisy as hell if not careful), made a ramp into the window next to the library room, and started exploring the mansion from there.

 

it is certainly to your credit that i played that a month ago and still remember the experience that vividly. i <3 <3oLS

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Come to the point where I can go no further. I made a mistake in knocking out someone who could have given me access to the library and I can find no more keys. I've covered the level often enough now where I've abandoned all care and knocked unconscious or killed all npcs in the mission including the wife and excluding the forbidden npc. I got so anxious that I started no clipping in certain areas and I think ruined some surprises for myself... nothing I can't rectify if I don't use it to exploit it. I don't suppose there's a key for the library anywhere? I can't think of a place that it would be stowed away because I've searched the places close to it and those notable individuals that should have a key including the fellow I knocked out cold who's key wasn't for the library at all.

 

It seems to me that if an npc is fleeced for keys wile still mobile they shouldn't be able to unlock the door the key corresponds to fit. It's wacky when you take their key and they continue to be able to access rooms which are locked to them and they have no real means of unlocking them because hey, hey you stole their key.

 

I noticed an interesting error wile playing this mission which I haven't been able to locate in other threads yet. I've been playing this mission for a wile now and have noticed that bodies left to their own devices tend to wander around. This is never seen but the results of which are surprising. I think I'll make a thread for this curious phenomenon. Don't know if it's a problem with the mission or the mod. It's nothing I've ever seen in doom3.

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The moving bodies has been much discussed elsewhere; it's a known problem.

 

Many npcs carry two keys - one is visible on the belt while the other is hidden in a pocket and inaccessible to the player. It depends how the FM maker sets it up. This is for gameplay reasons. The maker might want the npcs to continue to access the locked door or not.

 

The particular one you mention is a legitimate but alternate method of access. The main route intended by the author is

 

hint:

given in a clue in the book in the cupboard in the room at the top of the spiral stair.

 

 

nudge:

search that room for the 'secret way'. Martha indicates she can get out and get stuff, ie, the paintings, so it cannot mean that back room but some means to get out.

 

 

spoiler:

Remove the floor tile under the bedding.

 

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I'd be interested too to hear which routes people took. There are the two main routes but a few variations on them. I'd also be interested in player routes once they got inside the main building as there are about three ways in and variations on those.

 

 

Once I got in through the well and into the privy, the first room I remember going to was the armoury, which was nice. Got all loaded up and then continued along the hall towards the kitchen area. I went through the kitchen into the dining room and from there to the Heart's location. I actually got busted there a few times.

 

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johneric:

It's at the south end of the west corridor on the ground floor, opposite the women's quarters. There is a tiny hammer symbol on the door.

 

 

OK - Thanks. Actually, I was able to find it by using noclip - which I never do. The hammer itself wasn't a giveaway enough for me. I know, I'm a chump. One more problem though ... I can't get the finished game message to trigger, even though I've finished all but many of the optional tasks. I went out through the well and out through the gates. Neither worked. It's probably something obvious again, but I can't figure it out.

 

AWESOME FAN MISSION!!!! I am amazed! I can't wait to try more of these. The last FM I played was Tx2. I thought about trying the T3 FMs, but decided to jump right in to these. I have a feeling the T3 ones are going to disappoint by comparison.

 

Thank you so much for your time and effort. Someday, I'd like to develop a sequel to my T2 mission "Stronghold" with this, or a T4 editor. I'm dreaming up the storyline slowly.

 

johneric

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I've managed to get as far as the sealed room, on my own, but haven't detected a method of opening the case yet. It would be convenient if I could kill or drown what was down there using the bath. But it seemed that the water does not drain into the bilge area. This makes moving around difficult and since I can't yet open the casing without the suggested "key" (does it require something extra, or is something broken with my version of the mission?) I can't access the stone and also another key I believe is concealed with the stone. If I could use a light to search the room it would be much easier but that creates a problem, doesn't it.

 

Also found another highlightable object in the room. I believe it's a door handle but I can't be certain as it impossible to manipulate or remove.

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johneric: As a general principle with my FMs there should always be a clue. In this case, if you go in

the women's quarters opposite and read ruth's diary from her footlocker there is a direct clue to the room opposite and the chambermaid

so it's always worth browsing through the readables again when stuck. :)

 

pigtailsboy:

 

Hint: You need to find

Lord Edridge's research log which tells you how to open the case.

 

 

Spoiler:

Only intense red light focused on the case will open it. Light the powder in the lantern above the giant lens above the case.

 

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pigtailsboy:

 

Hint: You need to find

Lord Edridge's research log which tells you how to open the case.

 

 

Spoiler:

Only intense red light focused on the case will open it. Light the powder in the lantern above the giant lens above the case.

 

 

Did that already so I must be approaching it from the wrong direction. I've already gotten on top of it and tried from below. I'll see if it works again later.

 

Found a lot of something in this ep that I think I'll call Geddan syndrome. Is there a way to use screenshots in TDM? I'd like to post this junk so someone can tell me what I'm looking at. Get Down

Edited by pigtailsboy
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Finished the mission today. It was the second TDM mission I played (the first being, quite obviously, St. Lucia) and I must say I was mighty impressed. There've been a few glitches but I don't know if they were general TDM problems or just mission-specific: found some unconscious people I did not KO, one was lying straight at the entryway doorstep ("don't let them know you're here" failed because of him), the other one was

Martha

.

 

There should be a place for rating missions so I could give this one "SUPER GOOD" on a scale from "ONE" to "AWESOME"

Edited by mike mayday
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Very nice, long, mansion mission. Good, moody, backgrounds. And intricate storyline. :wub:

 

 

Route:

Crept about the outside, saw the parapet, and how to get up, but decided to investigate further (in case of more loot outside the mansion). Via the well (could run, crouched, on the 'dry side' of the tunnel), this seems to exploit a bug, where you rise up next to a sloped wall (st Lucia), and occasionally your head pops through the tunnel ceiling, but then you drop back.

 

Inside, explored the cellar, came up into the yard. Then decided to ghost back to the parapet archers, because the spidey-sense was saying there was loot there. Ghosted up, but bjed the archer to get on top of the archery target. Then into the mansion proper, went in through the balcony window. Used match for the optic lense.

 

 

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But after using the Heart are you sure you are really safe from its evil after-effects even if you got rid of it quickly - was it quickly enough? Watch out for Heart 2: The Alchemist, coming to a screen near you soon. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Problem.. Just started this and so far i'm loving it..

 

great map design and tough ghosting challenges if you want to make all the objectives.

 

 

I have a problem though.. I'm crouching in the dark.. my light gem is black all the way.. a stationary guard with a lamp turns in my direction and sees me and I fail the no major alert objective. My light gem does not light up.. I have not moved or made a sound the guard did not move closer to me, only turned in my direction.. by all rights as I understand the game mechanics and the rules, I should not have been discovered. - whats going on here?

 

In another area.. I made loud footsteps and alerted a guard in a place where he could not possibly see me. It did not set off the failed no alert objective.

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There must have been just a temporary glimmer of light for him to see you. Forgetting the light gem for a moment, it makes sense that a nearby guard with a lantern might see you especially if he was on the lowest alert already (which does not fail the objective.) The light gem is absolute borderline in that situation so it is only an indicator.

 

The sound propagation is a known problem and sometimes AI ignore sounds you'd think they hear and other times they come running from the other side of town!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Played through this mission last night. This is definately one of those maps, which make you miss a good night of sleep and zombie the next work day..

 

The storyline was brilliant and the map was very immersive overall. I just had to know what lies beyond the next door.

 

The things I didn't like was the entry to the house as the frame rates were annoyingly low even on my relatively new computer.

The other annoyance was the key hunting: if you miss one tiny key somewhere, the mission grinds to a halt. It might be better that there is only a one or two unpickable doors, giving the player the decision where to go next, not the mapper. But that is just my preference. ;-)

 

But these points aside, this definately is a most excellent mission! Good work!

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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Thanks Sotha. The fps at start was a problem because the original visportals over-complicated the code and produces crashes. It was a web of vertical and horizontal visportals that enclosed the courtyard which had its own visportals. Plus all would be open when you are high up anyway. In the end I had to rip them out so that whole open area is not visportalled. Playing on Easy helps because I put in only a couple of AI there and you don't miss anything in game.

 

The key hunt versus story flow control paradox has been discussed. How do you stop players going straight in and getting the Heart climax within 15 minutes then playing another three hours browsing around picking up loot and finding out story pieces out of order to explain what happened earlier? Bit like an action movie where the hero kills the villain in the first quarter then moves around finding why he did it until the end credits. I do not know the answer. For me it plays better if it builds and saves the best till later.

 

Because of the above, in Alchemist (the sequel to Heart) you only need one main 'key' (not actually a key) and can get the main objective fairly quickly then tour the streets as an anti-climax imo.

 

The alternative is to make the terrain sequential then the player moves along with the story and cannot get out of sync.

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You are quite welcome!

 

The key hunt versus story flow control paradox has been discussed. How do you stop players going straight in and getting the Heart climax within 15 minutes then playing another three hours browsing around picking up loot and finding out story pieces out of order to explain what happened earlier? Bit like an action movie where the hero kills the villain in the first quarter then moves around finding why he did it until the end credits. I do not know the answer. For me it plays better if it builds and saves the best till later.

 

A valid point indeed and not an easy one to answer. I can imagine a few options:

a) Building the story in a way that it can be experienced in any kind of order, but this is definately not compatible with all kinds of plots.

b ) Making a linear key-regulated story, but making the keys easier to find. If the story is key regulated, the keys should be in a very logical place.

 

It was really odd that the manor guard captain did not have the interrogation room key. I checked him and his surroundings several times, because I felt that the key must be somewhere around there. This was before I knew what was in the room, but I heard noise there and wanted to investigate.

 

c) realize that the player can indeed reach the mission target in 15 minutes and then allow him to do so, if he is clever enough. Most likely the placement of guards and the layout of the map lures the player elsewhere. It is quite improbable that the player happens to choose the directmost route to the loot. But if that happens, allow it.

Sneak'em'up players are often curious enough to explore the place first anyway. Maybe there is a risk of alarm sounding when the loot is taken? That makes it sensible to steal the item just before leaving..

There is a door which seals the way to a room full of dark secrets. Do not force the player come there later with the only key which unlocks it, but place a guard near the door and make the lock pickable but difficult enough that the player cannot pick it until the guard returns. Now if the player REALLY wants to go there, he will have to deal with the guard which may have consequences. Or the player gets the key with he can access the door without bothering the guard. There are other methods than forcing the player, in my opinion. You can always lovingly and gently guide the player at a certain direction, but he does not have to go where you want.

 

Because of the above, in Alchemist (the sequel to Heart) you only need one main 'key' (not actually a key) and can get the main objective fairly quickly then tour the streets as an anti-climax imo.

I've come to realize that this is very strongly a matter of taste. I loved the thief missions where the player was allowed to explore the surroundings freely, limited only by the guards and the time it takes to pick a lock. I loved much less the missions where there was an unbreakable, unpickable lock, to which a key had to be found from some dark area where it was easy to miss it. After looking the key and still not finding it I often thought "now in real life I could bash this door down and make progress, but with the consequence of alerting the guards."

 

I suppose the main idea is to have the player to decide what to do, but then the mapper makes sure that decision has dire consequences if the player chooses foolishly.

 

The alternative is to make the terrain sequential then the player moves along with the story and cannot get out of sync.

But we all know that this is probably the most boring option, which we sadly saw so many times in Thief: Deadly Shadows.

 

But again, Fidcal, thank you for the brilliant mission AND this discussion as it has provided me some more insight in this topic. :)

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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OK, I'm wandering round and round and getting nowhere. I've completed some of the objectives but I've finally succumbed and read this thread. The problem is that at this point all of the rooms and corridors are blurring into one. I think I know where I need to be looking to move on, but can't for the life of me think where certain rooms are. Could someon help me on my way?

 

I'm looking for

Lord Eldridge's bedroom and the Housekeeper's room. Pretty sure I've been to both before but can't recall where they are now. Could someone let me know which part of the mansion they are in?

 

 

Awesome map BTW!

"We were travelling in the night of first ages, of those ages that are gone, leaving hardly a sign — and no memories" - Joseph Conrad, Heart of Darkness

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Thanks bambini.

To help orientate yourself, remember to look at Sam's maps which are in your inventory and use your compass. The two rooms you want are probably not marked on them though but the map will give you sense of direction and reduce confusion. Lord Edridge's bedroom is upstairs. It's the large bedroom with a four-poster bed to the east of the main staircase. The housekeeper's room is downstairs again at the north end of the east corridor. There is a sign on the door. If you are still stuck you probably need to explore the upstairs west side.

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