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Fan Mission: The Heart of Lone Salvation by Fidcal, Baddcog & Bikerdude (2010/04/02)


Fidcal
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I'm still only halfway through (dam mapping eating my time) but I have yet to see a body.

 

Yeah, I've played this through without any mysterious casualties. Could it be hardware related or something?

Low spec computer + custom but 'safe' interleaving?

Clipper

-The mapper's best friend.

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It should be figured out.

 

But, in the spirit of the mystery of it all and how that really does lend a special something to this particular mission... I would seriously not want whatever it is that it takes to fix this to be applied to this mission. I too came across a dead man and it just seemed to fit...

 

So, yes, it should be figured out for the sake of stomping bugs and all that, but this was a "happy accident" aka serendipity...

"A Rhapsody Of Feigned And Ill-Invented Nonsense" - Thomas Aikenhead, On Theology, ca. 1696

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  • 2 weeks later...

Fidcal, lately you talked about an optional patch, that was not included in v2.0, but you didn´t updated your first post and I couldn´t find it through Topic-search. I don´t wanna read all the posts. So I´ll start playing anyway. Because it´s optional I shouldn´t care much, I guess, should I?

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:laugh: Yeah, though I only saw the basement-area, your mission deserves this! Such a beast you created, I couldn´t believe that you talked in the ReadMe about up to 6 hours of gameplay, on my pace it could come up to 10!! And so much AI´s, I couldn´t dream of more at what I saw, and perfect performance, no slowdowns! Only the missing ambient-music in the basement and the fog at the beginning I didn´t liked. Speaking of the fog: Does this help to increase performance, because of lower view-ability? Because it didn´t looked so nice...

 

And yes, I confused Heart with Alchemist, sorry, it was so late and because of that I only played until I searched all the rooms in the basement.

 

I missed the part with the archer at 2 AM, was he on the balcony? The map wasn´t clear about his position. And is this event timescaled or triggered?

 

 

Anyway, of what I saw I have sooooo high expectations, this must be the biggest TDM-FM out? And so much AI´s? I hope I won´t have slowdowns at the end, I have a descent system, but you never know... ^_^

 

BTW, are you still interested in a bug-report for this v2.0? Because I have a habit of making screenshots from every stuff that seems not right since NHAT-beta. I already found a couple, stuff like a deactivated light still looks lit and z-fighting.

Also, what´s the problem with the chests? Only in Builder´s Influence I saw them working properly, with both sides, top & bottom highlighted at once, and the dot beneath the needle moving while picking. First I thought it´s mappers laziness but recently Bikerdude talked about Mod-related bugs, though I´m not sure if he was referring to the chests. :huh:

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You don't like fog? Oh well, most players think it looks great. :laugh:

 

 

The parapet archer position is shown on the map. He goes by the clock tower time which chimes so when it strikes twice he knows its time for his break. He carries a lantern. But he might have already gone when you reached that point or you might have entered a different way. You might see him later so that area might be more difficult if he is back on duty but not impossible nor even mission-critical.

 

 

I'm not going to fix minor bugs now. What seems minor can mean a lot of work which is better spent on a new FM imo. :)

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It´s the fog in TDM that looks not right to me, well a little, it´s not serious. Sometimes I get lines in the fog, that seem to be burned into, only go away when I look at un-fogged areas. Also it has a green tint. Is the mapper able to control fog-colour? And the fog is a bit too heavy for my taste, but well, I´m sure you know more about fog has to look like than I do! :rolleyes:

And as we speak of it, extinguished flares had a green 2D-glow around them. Alright, I´ll save the bug-report. ;)

 

Yesterday I was finally drunk (contest-celebration, you know? :laugh: ), but that damn alcohol won´t let me play TDM, so I´ll go on with heart tonight. I´ll make sure to start early, so I can try to finish the mission in one night. Hmm, I think I´ll start over to

see the lantern guy. Was that main gate to the courtyard open from the beginning? On my first playthrough I rushed to the sewer-entry and so I got in and I never saw the lantern guy. And I couldn´t recognize the place pointed out in the map. There was just a wall and a closed gate, there I climbed over it. Hmm.

 

Also I took my time to study the nice maps! The drawn maps I mean, thank you for that, I love to have maps to look at. BTW, I guess the team decided against Auto-maps? Because I don´t like Automaps either, just unrealistic and with TDM´s enhanced graphics one can recognize the areas if the maps are good, and it fits if you have incomplete maps...

 

edit: added spoiler-code

Edited by LEGION

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Try r_skipFogLights 1 in your console if you don't like the fog. :)

 

I think NHAT uses a different fog method and it might be the same one used in the upcoming Hexen mod?

 

http://www.doom3world.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=7750&highlight=

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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@Legion:

 

Fog is tricky. It's done with a fog 'light' which lights in Doom 3 are squares. If the edge of the square can be seen it can leave a line or edge. Unfortunately it makes it hard to 'wrap around buildings' as you don't want fog inside.

But Dromed also had issues, fog there was built into the room brush system, it also would leave a distinct edge from one fog room to a non-fog room.

 

Fog COULD be used for performance now that we have LOD system (1.03) working. Anything beyond the vision distance of fog can be 'turned off', so models will just stop rendering at a certain point.

 

Color/brightness is fully customizable. In fact you can use almost black to just add a really dirty feel to the map.

 

 

The start area of Heart is the worst part for performance since it's pretty wide open and alot of AI, inside performance will only be better.

 

I think automaps are doable, I have some ideas too, but nobody has made them work yet. I'd like to see it done as it can be a good way to help out player imo. Sometimes it's just nice to have an indicator to tell you exactly where you are.

But like everything else, it would be an authors choice whether or not it would be used.

Dark is the sway that mows like a harvest

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I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the Hexen mod. The author says he "has a good feeling" that it'll be done real soon (but he's said that a couple years in a row now)...

 

He created his own light-mapping hack similar to TDM's "Fast Ambient" method but it requires tons of custom textures. Also, I think it's down to a one-man team... :(

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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@Baddgog:

Thanks for that fog-info, that sounds so good. I get inspired everyday a bit more. But before I get into DR completely I´ll finish all the available missions to get even more inspired! :) Hah, if I think back to my early days in UnrealEd (ver.1, only one tutorial in the manual, no Internet-connection...), DR will be like, I can´t find a fitting word...

 

@NilsBohr:

Keep me posted, will ya? I´m not so often over there. Is it HeXen: Edge of Chaos? They have a homepage?

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Yes HeXen: Edge of Chaos is the mod.

There are tons of assets from what I can see in the screen-shots. Most mods would've released a demo already but this guy is keeping his cards close to the chest till release. I am really looking forward to it (if it ever arrives).

 

 

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

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Yes HeXen: Edge of Chaos is the mod.

There are tons of assets from what I can see in the screen-shots. Most mods would've released a demo already but this guy is keeping his cards close to the chest till release. I am really looking forward to it (if it ever arrives).

Man, I just watched all the screenshots in detail, I guess their moddb-page serves as News-page? Anyway, it looks fantastic!! I loved HeXeN II and later GL HeXeN, I know, wrong order :laugh:, and the screenshots just look like what I remember, just in beautiful. Incredible, that Mod-scene...

Ok, enough Off-topic. ;)

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The fog is dull yellowish - 0.12 0.12 0.11 to be precise and yes, it is set by the mapper. I guess I was thinking of a light smog. Likewise, the torch halos are yellowish 0.125 0.125 0 so I suspect your monitor or graphics driver is not quite adjusted correctly and may be biased towards green (or you may be slightly color-blind and don't know it.) The halos should disappear when the torch is extinguished. Maybe I missed one?

 

 

Yes, study the map and you can see where the parapet archer is marked. Better get there before 2:00am though ;)

 

 

Auto-map was not discarded. On the contrary it was intended at least to be looked into but there was no time and other things have priority.

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Thank the builder, I´m not colour-blind! As I increased the gamma it was more yellowish, but I like it more darkish, and so it looked more greenish or kind of neo-green. I saw the glow on two extinguished flares, one outside and one inside the east tower.

But the fog does not appear as greenish as the glows. It´s a 'dirty' fog, smog-like, as you said. Allow me one last question before I finally go back to game and start over (so late again, damn, can´t stop talking). The following screenshot, are that windows? I remember seeing kind of a window-structure like that from the inside, if I don´t mix up sth, but from the outside it looked special:

post-3744-128441057097_thumb.jpg

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As expected, I wasn´t able to finish the mission in one night. I got stuck on the

interrogation room. I expected Sam there in that cage, but it was a bladesmith? There is one cell remaining that is locked and I can´t find a key/way to that cell where I suspect Sam.

And I have no clue where that spring of pure water is, where I have to put the Heart.

 

I already searched this thread for the Sam-issue, but only find talk about dragging him to the chapel? I don´t see why I should do that and I don´t even found Sam, so hell, I spoiled myself, well, I don´t care. I just want to end this mission, but have no clue what to do now.

 

 

I gotta go to dinner, I hope when I come back that there will be an answer here so I can finish this lovely (though I have big criticism, but later...) mission! :)

 

edit: Alright, found what I needed in this thread

Edited by LEGION

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After dinner I came back and found what I was looking for, along other spoilers so

I´ll never know if I would´ve used the Heart, but I guess I would have. Just that damn lever I didn´t saw. Also I figured out why the bladesmith was in the cage, he was the one who stole the wine-bottles...

 

 

:laugh: Hell, as I talked about 10 hours playtime I made a joke, but the mission-stats tell me that I lingered 8:53:54 hours in this goddamn mission, incredible!!! Longest mission ever!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!! :blink:

I found

6728 out of 9307 loot and I found 5 or 6 secrets

, did you provided a full secret-list in this thread? I haven´t read all pages yet.

 

While I´m writing this I´m listening to the Penumbra-Soundtrack and that is the major negative criticism I have to make for this great mission: Most of the time there was no ambiance but the fire of the flares and the guard-footsteps! Only three ambient-music-tracks in this big area, and the areas where the tracks were played were pretty small. I know that TDM is missing a bunch of Ambient-sounds, but it has great music-tracks and most of them weren´t used until today.

In those areas where music was played I had the most fun, though the mission was really great, superb story, great details in optics and nice sneaking abilities, I got bored and even annoyed by this *clomp*clomp*clomp* the guards constantly produced. With a track like the one from the main-hall-area it was much more fun to observe patrol-routes and sneaking around and I got sad every time an ambient-track would fade away. Without I became restless and in the end I started blackjacking.

I guess your reason for not using much ambiance was that it is a big mission and an ever-repeating-track can grow to an annoyance? But why not use more area-tracks?

But it´s very likely I wasn´t in the right mood, because the mission got everything to make it a showcase of what is possible and the performance for my (descent) system was superb (I started blackjacking only at the end)! Also story/changing objectives and amount of readables were more than satisfying I never was able to 'feel' the atmosphere because of the lack of ambiance. Only as I got to the display-room I got finally the feeling I missed all the time. But sadly, lucky me, I made a mistake that forced me to reload and somehow that caused every ambiance-track to be gone!!! (I reloaded before without this annoying side-effect) Even older saves (I use the 3-quicksave-method) didn´t had the ambiance anymore? Restarting DarkMod couldn´t help. Even today it was gone, also the starting-area guards and the machine-hum were missing it sound-effects like the hum and guard-footsteps. To make it even more weird: As I finished the mission 10 minutes ago I was at the courtyard, the sounds were back, and suddenly the ambient-track kicked in again too!? In mysteries ways the builder works, I know, but that was most weird. Also I had another major sound-bug in the Display-room: The 'elevator-sound' that was caused by the released heart wouldn´t stop!! I tried three times, but every try caused this non-stopping sound.

 

I don´t want to sound rude, I´m always better in pointing out negative things than glorifying positive things, but I said before that the mission has so much positive aspects, and most likely I forgot a bunch of details to mention. :( But I can tell what I liked most:

The garden-area and the display-room! Yeah, they had nice ambient-tracks, but the optic/design was very atmospheric too and it looked believable and I loved to see black spiders? They were great and I liked it even more that the big summoned spider in the display-room had no footstep-sound, that is more realistic and makes them more scary!! And it was a good idea to make the big spider invulnerable. Because I shot here from the tree and if she had died the atmosphere would have gone on half, I guess. Sneaking through the plants is really creepy! ph34r.gif

The other most-liked room was the living area near Helenas bathtub, the bathtub was great too, thirst I thought that it´s maybe possible to flood the room, but I guess that nobles have precaution-systems to prevent that. biggrin.gifwink.gif

 

 

Oh damn, I completely forgot about the scoring-sheet, sorry. Well, here are my scores:

 

Gameplay: Excellent

 

First I wanted to score 'good', but that would´ve been only because of the missing ambiance that affected my GamePlay-fun, but that wouldn´t have been fair. There were so much things out of the ordinary, even the bookcase-switch because of the way how you reach it. The objective-related-stuff was real fun and of course the shadow/architecture-'positioning' and AI-routes were great supports for the fun-delivering during sneaking around! Not once I felt the urge to blackjack someone. The reason I did anyway was just that I had enough of hiding and waiting while listening only to their damn 'clomps'. It would be a nice feature that you can: blackjack a guard, take off his boots, wake him again, and he patrols just on his socks!! laugh.gif

Seriously, these stone-footfall-sounds are very bad, the players sounds are not much better. All other ground-footfall-sounds sound very, very good, no need to change them. But these stone-sounds are, arg, can´t stand them, and I know I´m not the only one. Can´t we just rip the Thief-sounds and alter them slightly? rolleyes.gif

 

 

Appearance: Excellent++

 

 

Just the Fog (I love the clear nights when you see the clouds, stars and the moon of course too) and the sometimes too dark ambient-lighting were in the way for a 'Near Perfect'-rating. But it´s for sure outstanding because of the details I spotted (along with two z-fightings wink.gif ). The architecture I liked a lot and it had good gameplay-use in the basement-area because of the hiding-spots. The living-area was a true eye-catcher, though I missed more rooms more like that where the nobles can do their 'I´m so rich, see what I can afford'-stuff.

 

 

Story: Near Perfect

 

 

Not even the mission with most AI´s, but with most readables too! smile.gif And the story was original, a little touching and felt most of the time believable. Just the 'Use the stone to get rescued'-thing was a bit too much for my taste. I would´ve liked it more if I just had thrown the stone against the wall and the stone moved because of that and maybe because Sam worked on that spot too. This way, you never would´ve been sure if the stone really was that powerful or not. Edridge could have come to his fortune due to several ways. He lived the dream of many thieves... And I disliked that I would destroy the stone? I would sell it. Oh, I forgot, it´s an optional objective. Doh! rolleyes.gif And I would´ve liked more clearance about what happened to Martha. Well, she had one wish too much, right? The stone serves fortune only once, but a more common disease without turning her into a monster would´ve been more fitting and touching, oh well, it´s players taste, I know. smile.gif

 

 

 

Now I remember an odd thing: Before the master bedroom I found the corpse of Lord Rodchester (was that his name?), that was the armed noble that patrolled in the main Hall, it´s stairs and the room with the

book of Rogues

in it. I didn´t do nothing to him and I wasn´t in that area before! I never found a readable related to his death. But if his body is called 'Lord Rodchesters corpse', that is your doing, Fidcal, isn´t it?

edit: I just read in the last posts about this bug, strange...

 

BTW:As we´re at it, I never killed a guard. When you pick him up, is there still 'body' show or 'corpse' like in Thief?

And was Edridge somewhere to be found? Didn´t noticed him then. Or was he 'on tour' with all the female staff? :D

 

If it weren´t for the missing ambiance it would´ve been a perfect or near perfect mission. I think I´ll add some music myself. Oh, and please don´t tell me it is some kind of bug that I wasn´t able to hear music most of the time... <_<

 

Note: About the fog-issue I had with the 'burned in' patterns: greetings to Baddcog, it´s my TV :rolleyes:, or to be more precise, the HD-mode caused that. In SD(my TV calles it PC, but it is SD, right?) I don´t have that effect, but still I can see these lines, but they are normal, yes?: (it´s like then watching 32-bit pictures on a 16-bit screen)

post-3744-128459584685_thumb.jpg

Hmm, it´s hard to see, so here´s the whole shot, just saved in Jpeg:

post-3744-128459589587_thumb.jpg

 

But I won´t abandon my HD-mode, it looks so much better for the rest, the black shadows are really black and everything looks more sharp, especially texts and the colours look incredible rich. (I don´t have a good monitor and there are other reasons that make me use my TV as Monitor...)

 

Another question: is it possible to decrease the fog to the top so you can see more of the skybox? In heart I can´t tell if there is a skybox at all, if it was intended that way, I´m just curious how it´s meant to be. :)

 

edit: added spoiler-code

edit again: When I wrote 'heartening', I really meant 'touching'!

Edited by LEGION

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The reason I didn't use more ambience music is more likely I didn't think of it. I think I put some dramatic music when you first got inside to signify danger and in one or two places I put sound ambience. Guess I didn't dwell on it too much.

 

Look close and you can see

an overflow in the bathing pool so it won't overflow.

 

 

Use of the stone is explained in

the log. It was imbued with magic and once used you have to pass it on to someone else or it brings bad luck. To throw it at something makes no sense because it has different uses where it meets each owner's needs. For instance it made Lord Edridge rich so what would he throw it at? It gave Martha skill in art and so on.

 

 

Yes, you don't have to destroy the Heart. I like the fun of giving the player a moral choice.

 

If you liked this story then you should get Thief 2 and play my Nightwatch but hang on to your hat because it is a 4-mission pack full of story.

 

All AI have a corpse name and a KO'd name that shows when you pick them up. By default I think this is just corpse and body but the mapper can set it. Mappers generally set all known characters so you know who they are. Lord Edridge is

the old guy in front of the fire in the parlour next to the main hall.

 

 

Martha:

this is the way the Heart works. You use it once then must pass it on. The magic that it is imbued with was intended by Obrennard to only produce good - but once only so others could have it for a while. He expected the owners to pass it on to others since it was of no further use to them but he underestimated the selfishness of man and some owners clung to the stone even after they had used it. But magic has as it were an unconscious will of its own. It must find a way to spread its good so it gradually made things more and more difficult for its owner to encourage them to pass it on.

 

Obrennard never intended this; it was an automatic side effect of his spell. Imagine if it were a 'smart' computer program that was directed to produce the maximum happiness to the greatest number of people. It had to find a way to get itself shared. In the beginning the owner would pass on the stone and explain to the receiver that he must use it once and pass it on but of course that information kept getting lost and rediscovered throughout history. In the case of Martha it wasn't directly her second wish that caused the problem but that she clung to the stone hoping to see her old companions again. And she had it for a long time so it harmed her more and more. Obrennard would have been aghast at this side effect of his spell.

 

 

Have you ever experienced being in fog? I guess some parts of the world never have it. Believe me - that's how it looks. You can't see the sky. What you are asking is like asking can it be overcast (totally cloudy) and have a clear sky at the same time.

 

Thanks for the feedback LEGION I really appreciate it especially about the story. Strange thing is that I think my Nightwatch story was better but I was disappointed that I got very little feedback on that. Most players skim over the story anyway.

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You´re welcome. For me the story is an very important element and what makes Thief/TDM-FMs so outstanding compared to other games. And due to the Reading-system it´s relatively easy to implement, you just need to have good ideas. :)

I understood how the stone works, I guess if I would´ve written it I would have shrouded it in more mystery, for that reason I would´ve thrown the stone and who knows how the stone works, but well, I need to accept that there is magic in this world. :)

 

I have your Nightwatch-pack right here. Hey cool, a 'Director´s Cut'-mode, but according to your ReadMe I better try that later. Hmm, is it fine for you when I PM you when I´m stuck? Because I have a feeling that I will be. But I´ll search at TTLG before. I don´t even know when I´ll play it, still some TDM-missions to go. But there are no 'crossovers' or references between Nightwatch and Heart, are there?

 

Yeah, that overflow is pretty effective because the water rose pretty fast. :P

 

Cool you had Edridge in there (I hated it in Thief when in most FMs the guy you steal from is not there at all), so he was 'protecting' his book or waited till he goes on to write in it. That part was fun to sneak up to the book, that was the first time in TDM (without the TrainingMission) that I used the moss-arrows. And somehow he got a little suspicious as I read the book while in the shadow. When I 'closed' the book he never seemed to see sth. Hmm.

 

But I really hope that you´ll use more ambiance-tracks in your future missions. Especially with much AI´s around it helps a lot creating atmosphere. I know I´m very sensitive to music and others aren´t, but until Heart I wasn´t aware HOW sensitive I am with music. :blush:

 

And yes, you´re right about me in the fog, at least I never was in fog that thick. Hmm, I guess I only know fog from the movies and there it always looks pretty, like in those too often used cemetery-scenes.

And as I talked about the cloudy sky visible I referred to Thief2´s Life of the Pary where you really had a lot of smog, but the moon and night-sky were still visible. But I guess that Thief2´s fog isn´t a good RealLife-example. :rolleyes: Also TDM-skies are much higher than Thief´s I think.

 

@Rich: Thanks for that info, I´m glad my TV is not responsible for that.

But what does

It should be resolved once HDR is available to the public at large.
mean? Is this task up to the TDM-team or do I have to do or even buy sth? I guess it´s more complicated than JC Denton´s work? Or is it like his DentonMod for Doom3?

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There are four threads, one for each level of Nightwatch, at ttlg. I think if you search for "night watch" in the title zone it finds them.

 

You might want to try Director's Cut. That was closest to my original but I dumbed it down on the advice of several experienced beta testers. I should hold that it is possible to complete all four missions on Director's Cut but nobody has claimed the fame and honor of being the first. But you absolutely MUST read the readme first and study the clues and look at them again if stuck because every time somebody got stuck I virtually always pointed them at the clue. There is no connection with Heart other than both have a magical mystical theme and an evil villain and a damsel in distress you have to rescue

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