Nosslaks stuff

[nbohr1more]

Oh wow Noss!

 

That looks great!

[Sotha]

What do you think?

 

Most excellent like every single model you've created thus far..

[Nosslak]

Screenshot on AI head plz.

I had just the sort of AI that might use this too.

The doctor will see you now:

 

 

Do you need help getting it into the game? (What about your other models, getting them into the game?)

I'll probably need help getting this into the game (it will be attachable and I don't know how to do that). It would be nice if someone got the other models into the game for me as I find it really boring and often frustrating to do it (and therefore always push it up until the last minute), but to be honest I can do it myself.

 

Btw

 

http://web.siat.ac.c.../2011/lobetree/

 

is about constructing trees by positioning texture lobes. Do you think you could model the indiviual branches/leaf bunches they mention in their paper? Then maybe I could write some code that randomly arranges them into trees/bushes.

I will try! The video and paper takes ages to load (why couldn't they just use Youtube like everyone else?) but from the pictures on the abstract it just looks like textured planes and that I can do.

 

Oh wow Noss!

 

That looks great!

Most excellent like every single model you've created thus far..

Goodness that's wicked looking. Good work.

Thanks!

[fllood]

chiming in to say what an fantastic, very useful model, ... !!

 

can't wait for this one into the mod. 'opening up lot's of story possibilities ...

 

Superb job done Nosslak!

[Midnight]

I'll repeat what others have said, this looks brilliant! I'd previously thought about a new faction type for the plague ward, "The Accursed" or "The Ashen Hordes" or something like that, but what I came up with was too similar to Zombies to make it worthwhile, but I think this mask would give this kind of faction a unique identity. Also, bird masks are scary as f**k, even more so if these characters had wheezy breathing and coughing vocals to go with them.

[Springheel]

I'll probably need help getting this into the game (it will be attachable and I don't know how to do that).

 

I can help with the mask. It will need a couple new head entities for it anyway.

[_Atti_]

Wow , nice work with the mask. It rocks!

[Nosslak]

can't wait for this one into the mod. 'opening up lot's of story possibilities ...

I'll repeat what others have said, this looks brilliant! I'd previously thought about a new faction type for the plague ward, "The Accursed" or "The Ashen Hordes" or something like that, but what I came up with was too similar to Zombies to make it worthwhile, but I think this mask would give this kind of faction a unique identity. Also, bird masks are scary as f**k, even more so if these characters had wheezy breathing and coughing vocals to go with them.

There seems to be a lot of interest for a new plague faction both here and in Fidcals thread, but I feel that one single unique item just won't suffice for them (everyone can't run around in the same mask). So as someone suggested a couple posts back I think I'll try to adjust the existing cowl/hood to fit with my mask and some new heads (right now it only fits on 2 heads I believe and it's clipping with the mask). Is there interest in this or do anyone have any better suggestions for a needed item for this new faction?

 

I can help with the mask. It will need a couple new head entities for it anyway.

I haven't done any mapping and don't know how the system works or anything so I might've misunderstood, but wouldn't it be better to have it as an attachment than to make new entities with it on? As I said above I might want to convert the hood so that both can be used at the same time. If we add new head entities that would require 5 for the mask, 5 for the hood and 5 for the hood+mask. I hope I just misunderstood because that doesn't sound effective at all.

 

Wow , nice work with the mask. It rocks!

chiming in to say what an fantastic, very useful model, ... !!

 

 

Superb job done Nosslak!

Thank you!

[Springheel]

There seems to be a lot of interest for a new plague faction both here and in Fidcals thread, but I feel that one single unique item just won't suffice for them (everyone can't run around in the same mask).

 

A plague "faction" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Some kind of "leper colony" idea might be feasible for a particular story or two, but it's not like people with dangerous contagious diseases would be allowed to wander freely around the city, mask or no.

 

but wouldn't it be better to have it as an attachment than to make new entities with it on?

 

You could, but you can't def_attach something directly to the head mesh that way. You have to attach it to the AI head joint, so there's no way to vary the attachment position based on the specific head. It will be hit or miss whether it lines up well.

[demagogue]

Well they're not primitive pagan masks; they're steampunk tech.

(Maybe there should be some primitive masks like this for pagan tribes too.)

But anyway the kind of faction this mask calls for is some ambiguous offshoot or associated group to the Inventors, which implies they're into darker, weirder territory than their surface reputation. I always liked the idea that the Inventors have a kind of warped quasi-theological or cultish ideology among the upper echelons, and maybe they have a clan of brainwashed thugs that do their darker bidding, and these masks would be the mark of that clan... but the relationship is never entirely clear. Something like that. Well, since they look like kind of gasmasks... Maybe they were originally the workers for the Inventors down in the gas chambers doing all sorts of sinister jobs, but a little of the gas's effect has had its toll & they've gone a bit mad, but they still have their uses...

[Springheel]

I always liked the idea that the Inventors have a kind of warped quasi-theological or cultish ideology among the upper echelons

 

Doesn't that steer them right back into Mechanist territory?

[Midnight]

I always liked the idea that the Inventors have a kind of warped quasi-theological or cultish ideology among the upper echelons, and maybe they have a clan of brainwashed thugs that do their darker bidding, and these masks would be the mark of that clan... but the relationship is never entirely clear. Something like that. Well, since they look like kind of gasmasks... Maybe they were originally the workers for the Inventors down in the gas chambers doing all sorts of sinister jobs, but a little of the gas's effect has had its toll & they've gone a bit mad, but they still have their uses...

The cause of the plague quarter is already quite mysterious so it would seem fitting to also leave some mystery around who these men in masks are and how they came to acquire their unique appearance (this wouldn't preclude that they could be some Inventor offshoot, but I agree sometimes it's more interesting if you leave it to the player to come up with their own explanations to mysteries like this). I like the idea that there could be a link to gas chambers, some of them could use some kind of gas attack against foes to make them a formidable enemy (why is it that only the player gets to use gas as a weapon?), but clearly anything like this would need to be limited to a select few, maybe identified by a variation on the gas mask attachment.

 

A google for "steampunk gas mask" brings up some interesting variations, though I prefer the worn leather look that Nosslak's mask has than the heavy brass look.

 

 

A plague "faction" doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Some kind of "leper colony" idea might be feasible for a particular story or two, but it's not like people with dangerous contagious diseases would be allowed to wander freely around the city, mask or no.

I imagine this faction would mostly be relegated to the plague quarter itself, with a few individuals or even a small band occasionally venturing outside the plague quarter to steal fresh untainted food. The rarity of encountering these AI in regular FMs would increase their 'fear factor' IMHO. Just throwing ideas about really, a whole new faction is obviously a huge deal that would need a lot of discussion before even considering whether it's worth it or not to introduce new AI.

[demagogue]

Doesn't that steer them right back into Mechanist territory?

 

In my vision of them it didn't. For most of the lower ranking members, it's just a tradesman guild. It's only the highest members that have some mystical beliefs or dabble in dark arts involving supernatural things... Not necessarily spirits, it's not about worship, but like some kind of mysterious Lovecraftian "dark power" that's not natural that they want to tap into. I mean basically it's the idea they carry big secrets that only the top of the top know about, and that's rooted in their secret history, or secret purpose involving that "dark power" in the world; there's more going on than just inventing... But it's all shadowy and ambiguous, and maybe so secret it never is entirely clear what it is; the player just sees suggestive hints now and then ... inscrutable inventions & machines scattered all over the city & countryside that do "something", not sure what, but it's unsettling. But as to the basic MO of their day to day work, it operates like a specialized tradesman guild. They're inventors first. Definitely not like a religion. This is just my personal vision of them anyway.

 

it would seem fitting to also leave some mystery around who these men in masks are and how they came to acquire their unique appearance

 

That's kind of my thinking I just mentioned... It can be suggestive of certain things, but yeah, leave a lot of mystery around it that never makes it entirely clear who they are or what they do. Anyway it's sort of academic since it'll be up to an FM author to use them in their story, and they'll sort of get the first crack at it however they want to use them.

[fllood]

Well they're not primitive pagan masks.

 

Yes indeed.

 

This would be an example of a pagan mask made from bark:

 

 

 

Animal masks would be pagan as well.

 

A group of people wearing Nosslak's mask may - but needed to be - tight to the inventors. There a lot of possibilities with preserving a mystery around such group. An feared secretive assassin faction to name just one other example.

 

 

. It's only the highest members that have some mystical beliefs or dabble in dark arts involving supernatural things... Not necessarily spirits, it's not about worship, but like some kind of mysterious Lovecraftian "dark power" that's not natural that they want to tap into. I mean basically it's the idea they carry big secrets that only the top of the top know about, and that's rooted in their secret history, or secret purpose involving that "dark power" in the world; there's more going on than just inventing... But it's all shadowy and ambiguous, and maybe so secret it never is entirely clear what it is; the player just sees suggestive hints now and then ...

it would seem fitting to also leave some mystery around who these men in masks are and how they came to acquire their unique appearance

 

I really like that!

 

 

they're steampunk tech.

 

Could be. But needn't be. There is no functional need for (fictional) tech attached to such a mask unless someone make it a live preserving device in a FM for some reason. But would such kind of "Daddy Vader" Star Wars gasp mask really fit TDM??

 

Masks usually aren't used due to an illness but to hide the identity of it's wearers. A group using the same type of mask make it also a symbol of some identity or belief. A mask like Nosslak's might also have a third function: spreading fear and terror for the whispered myth and/or known actions of the people wearing that certain mask.

Edited August 11, 2011 by fllood

[Tels]

You could, but you can't def_attach something directly to the head mesh that way. You have to attach it to the AI head joint, so there's no way to vary the attachment position based on the specific head. It will be hit or miss whether it lines up well.

 

What's the reason we cannot do this? Is this just an issue of "not enough code to support this feature"?

[Tels]

I imagine this faction would mostly be relegated to the plague quarter itself, with a few individuals or even a small band occasionally venturing outside the plague quarter to steal fresh untainted food. The rarity of encountering these AI in regular FMs would increase their 'fear factor' IMHO. Just throwing ideas about really, a whole new faction is obviously a huge deal that would need a lot of discussion before even considering whether it's worth it or not to introduce new AI.

 

Er, why not make them what they have been in real-life: plague doctors? They worn these masks to protect them from the plague, and had herbs+spices in the beak (presumable because the stink would otherwise unbearable).

 

In real-life medivial ages, sound and healthy persons wore these masks, not people plagued by the pest.

 

So why reverse it suddenly for the game (and come up with a lot of handwaiving and so on just to explain them)?

 

Edit: About the "plague ward" or "plague sector" - there is the legend/story of the "Graseweg" (grass path) in Halle, Germany, which was 1350 walled-off at both ends to detain the pest.

 

http://www.sos-halberstadt.bildung-lsa.de/sagen/pdf/DerGraseweg.pdf

 

For about 10 years nobody entered there, and when they entered, there were skeletons overgrown with grass (hence the name). Guess the detainment didn't really help, tho.

 

Oh, and there is the story that https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Flagellant did carry the pest over wide areas because they travelled a lot (and had open wounds, too). Not sure how credible that is.

[Tels]

 

it would seem fitting to also leave some mystery around who these men in masks are and how they came to acquire their unique appearance

 

I really like that!

 

 

A lot of people from Europe (esp. older, more educated) would instantly recognize these masks as "Plague doctor mask" and jump to conclusions - I am not sure why you expect them to still have some mystery about them

[demagogue]

Could be. But needn't be. There is no functional need for (fictional) tech attached to such a mask unless someone make it a live preserving device in a FM for some reason

 

My original meaning was just that they were made from machined & refined parts, the goggles & nose-hole meshes, the leather and brass screws, and it was in the steampunk aesthetic... It means some skill went into making them. I didn't mean to imply it necessarily had to be some special tech involved, aside from it just visually looking like a kind of gas mask or air-filter.

[fllood]

A lot of people from Europe (esp. older, more educated) would instantly recognize these masks as "Plague doctor mask" and jump to conclusions - I am not sure why you expect them to still have some mystery about them

well... only because something had been originally used for a certain purpose in real history doesn't mean that a group of people take some symbol or mask and give it a new meaning. That's a not uncommon practice through history as it still is today.

 

To me personally the best fiction and games are rooted in some historical background but do create an own altered universe based on that. So I think TDM isn't and shouldn't be a 1:1 history simulation. TDM shouldn't hesitate to change real world history things if it enhance the world, gameplay or atmosphere. For an example George R.R. Martin's work wouldn't be such appealing to so many people if he would have put his settings in a pure and historically correct medieval world. I think dogmatically to stick and simulate history for the sake of it has been seldom fun to see, create or play. Therefore the fact alone that this mask had been used in for plague doctors in European Middle Ages is no reason for me it couldn't be adopted for some other purpose or mystical reasons by a group of people in the world of TDM or single FM's.

 

My original meaning was just that they were made from machined & refined parts,

thanks for explaining. Make sense now

[fllood]

Edit: About the "plague ward" or "plague sector" - there is the legend/story of the "Graseweg" (grass path) in Halle, Germany, which was 1350 walled-off at both ends to detain the pest.

http://www.sos-halbe...DerGraseweg.pdf

nice finding!

[Tels]

well... only because something had been originally used for a certain purpose in real history doesn't mean that a group of people take some symbol or mask and give it a new meaning. That's a not uncommon practice through history as it still is today.

 

To me personally the best fiction and games are rooted in some historical background but do create an own altered universe based on that. So I think TDM isn't and shouldn't be a 1:1 history simulation. TDM shouldn't hesitate to change real world history things if it enhance the world, gameplay or atmosphere. For an example George R.R. Martin's work wouldn't be such appealing to so many people if he would have put his settings in a pure and historically correct medieval world. I think dogmatically to stick and simulate history for the sake of it has been seldom fun to see, create or play. Therefore the fact alone that this mask had been used in for plague doctors in European Middle Ages is no reason for me it couldn't be adopted for some other purpose or mystical reasons by a group of people in the world of TDM or single FM's.

 

Well, I thought that while we are at it, we might explain history, and people/kids could learn something from it. But then, our timeline is completely screwed up, anyway (forks where coming from the italian much later, victorian era was waay after the medivial ages, electricity even much later, plus wireless electricity, magic, etc.)

 

So you are right, it's a bit pointless so we might as well do whatever we want.

[Baddcog]

I'm with Tels on this one, and Spring a bit too.

 

It is easily recognized as a plague doctor mask by most. The new Nick Cage movie 'season of the witch' had them and a bunch of gross plague ridden people. So even more people will probably become familiar with them.

I never knew they had herbs in the beak, explains the shape a lot, good to know.

 

Having a plague 'ward' doesn't seem unfitting to me. it could easily be a sectioned off quarter somewhere, just a quarantined area. Really filthy, bodies in the streets. Could be a real creepy place to send the player.

But I don't see all the people wearing the masks, just the important ones, doctors/religious leaders/whatever. Maybe they even have their own escape route to the larger city, or a quarantine area of their own where they take off the masks.

But I think having all the ai in them would cheapen it.

[Renzatic]

Hey, Nosslak. I have to say, you're a helluva modeler. Props on your skills.

 

And also, what with imitation being the sincerest form of flattery and all, I thought your lamp post was so nice, I aped the design a bit for something I'm working on.

 

Here.

 

I expanded a bit on the arms and the lights themselves, but the post itself barely has any differences at all in comparison to your original. Since it's more or less your design, if you want it, I can upload it and post it here.

 

In the meantime, keep up the good work.

[Nosslak]

Thanks for all the compliments again.

 

And also, what with imitation being the sincerest form of flattery and all, I thought your lamp post was so nice, I aped the design a bit for something I'm working on.

 

Here.

Very nice, the design isn't mine though. I just found a reference photo-pack from CG-cookie which had a photo of such a lamp so I just decided to make it. I made some of the details myself but most of it were just based directly off of the photos. I also never uploaded mine because there were some smoothing errors and after I fixed them I forgot all about it. I've got to say I like yours a lot more as mine was quite boring IMO. I do think the top part of the lamp (with the round holes) is bulging out a bit too much, otherwise it is very nice.

 

You don't need to post it or anything. It would look very good in the mod, but I suspect that is what you made it for anyway.

 

In the meantime, keep up the good work.

Always!

[Melan]

This mask is wonderful... uh... I mean absolutely horrible!