Darkmod: Inspiration thread

[chedap]

SSAO artifacts. I'm not sure how much better other titles are at this but I can clearly see popping around dynamic objects.

Patch 1.1 introduced SSAO+AA incompatibility when SSAO would render on top of fog, patch 1.2 fixed that. I didn't really notice problems aside from that, but then again I'm not very sensitive to flaws that only appear in motion, (screen-tearing, aliasing etc).

 

It could be the use of light-maps in many areas conflicting with the dynamic light and the lack of normals on many surfaces. All I know is that some of the stuff I've seen in motion just doesn't give that true light source feel the way that TDM does.

I think it might be another effect of them layering desaturation+green filter+fog on top. It gives the whole scene unnatural feel, and dynamic lights don't behave the way you intuitively expect them to.

You don't realize it's Fallout 3 levels of bad until you open a screenshot in an image editor. Example: in asylum, male/female wards have blue/pink line of tiles along the bottom of the walls. But in the game it all blends together as gradients of green.

[demagogue]

The T4 scenes have a lot of geometry showing. Any ideas on how it maintains good performance? Anything we could learn from it?

[Melan]

Almost all, or all of the scenery is made of models, mostly in a modular way. You could make a similar mission in TDM, but you'd have to build the terrain models first.

[chedap]

Any ideas on how it maintains good performance

One answer would be: it doesn't. It stutters on high-end machines.

Also it's a modern engine that takes full advantage of GPUs and everything's done with models.

 

Anything we could learn from it?

You can observe how they budgeted detalization: they can afford 'redundant' geometry for individual bricks in cramped interiors, but exteriors are much more simple comparatively (pavement is just a believable use of parallax). Exteriors also have noticeable LOD-models and simplified geometry in places player isn't likely to notice. Examples.

[SteveL]

Interesting. You have a very keen eye!

[nbohr1more]

UE3's primary advantages compared to Doom 3 are "Deferred Shading" (this is an optional rendering mode, it can do forward rendering

if the developer doesn't want to sacrifice material quality, etc), and Parallax Mapping (I believe they use a custom algorithm called virtual displacement

mapping which looks a bit better than standard parallax mapping). The benefits of former are somewhat dubious now since it seems

almost every AAA title using UE3 is light mapped.

[demagogue]

I was always a proponent of modeled architecture because it looks good, but if those kinds of lines of sight and open areas hold up for TDM's engine too, I'm even more a fan. I wonder if it's worth investing in a stock of architecture modules like wall sections, pillars, borders, etc, that mappers can piece together over simple brushwork.

[RJFerret]

I wonder if it's worth investing in a stock of architecture modules like wall sections, pillars, borders, etc, that mappers can piece together over simple brushwork.

 

If you can fix the inability to rotate and resize things adequately. I've found none of the current stock architecture models are effectively usable because their sizes don't match and can't reasonably be changed, and if you do assemble something, you can't rotate it for use/re-use.

 

Also provide the ability to re-texture a model, rather than being stuck with another's design aesthetic. (I've had to build brushes over parts of models to hide flaws.)

 

Of course it's also nice to see unique creations, rather than "oh, he used that piece for that". Kind of like with window prefabs now, "oh, he used that window prefab, and didn't even bother flipping, or even rotating the texture, just cloned it a few times as is".

[Flanders]

If you can fix the inability to rotate and resize things adequately. I've found none of the current stock architecture models are effectively usable because their sizes don't match and can't reasonably be changed, and if you do assemble something, you can't rotate it for use/re-use.

You can rotate a rescaled model:

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Resizing_Models

 

For some reason there are two articles on the subject of rescaling models and there are no cross references in it. This is the other article:

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Rescaling,_Resizing,_Models_in_Dark_Radiant#Rotating_Rescaled_Models

[RJFerret]

You can rotate a rescaled model:

 

LOL, ironic you linked articles I provided (one of) to folks the other day to explain scaling.

 

But you missed the problem of this context, try loading a prefab which includes models into DR, then rotate it, and watch it veritably explode. The architecture/buildings/small_house is an example, the model chimney pieces fly off elsewhere.

 

Similarly, you can't effectively scale models, as noted in the wiki. I've done it, for stuff that isn't meant to be architecture, but non-solid features that I built a separate shadow model out of brushes. Were you to have a model column or archway, shrink it in size, the clip model would remain as it was, causing all sorts of problems for AI pathing, players and physical moving objects. Yes, technically you may build a new clip model out of brushes (or models), if you learn how to substitute clipmodels, but now are doing all the work having a stock model was supposed to avoid.

[pusianka]

Ok, this one I found on internet when I was looking at my failed pictures of alabaster glass:

 

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbazia_di_Casamari

[demagogue]

But you missed the problem of this context, try loading a prefab which includes models into DR, then rotate it, and watch it veritably explode. ... Similarly, you can't effectively scale models, as noted in the wiki. ... the clip model would remain as it was,

 

DR is the place to handle these issues. So all of these things should be tracked as feature requests for DR on the bug-tracker, although I bet they already have been. It's an old complaint. I remember being miffed about it before 1.0.

[Bikerdude]

Looking at the images on the thread below and after playing T4 I am tempted to re-create one of those rooms in TDM -

 

- http://translate.goo...al8ipEJDBrHxIPg

 

 

 

 

[Cookie]

Found a CryEngine artwork collection, a bit older I guess, but some pictures might actually fit in here:

 

http://i.imgur.com/28SC6.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/ZSjEb.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/b07eU.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/JrRsV.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/GvlZu.jpg

 

My apologies if those were already posted and I missed them.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Cookie

[Bikerdude]

@Cooki, those are awesome. Ps. you can post the images on the forum rather than the links btw.

[demagogue]

My favorite project to follow, Voxel Farm, is the engine behind Everquest's sequel, called Next Landmark. It's like Minecraft with voxels; you can manipulate all the geometry like ZBrush. Anyway, alpha testing started last month and some fans were able to join, and they've already built a lot of things in the game. This is a video of it.

 

The thing to keep in mind is all the architecture you see was built by hand in the game itself. I think there were some modular brushes ("brush" in the ZBrush sense, we'd think of them like func_stats), but I think a lot of it is just block shapes too. It looks like modeled architecture. I'm interested in trying it out too when it comes out. (Although I think I'm more interested in a future vanilla version more like a Minecraft clone than the cartoonish RPG of Everquest.)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezMpJgNJqHI

[Bikerdude]

Ooooh nice wide open spaces..

[rich_is_bored]

I've been tinkering with Landmark a fair amount lately. There isn't much of a game implemented ATM but it's fun to experiment with the building tools.

 

The world is comprised of both voxels and props. Voxel density is about 3 times greater than Minecraft so player is about 6 voxels tall. Also voxel corners are not locked to the grid. You can push and pull them, albeit indirectly, so it's possible to make virtually any shape provided you work at the appropriate scale.

 

If you don't want to pony up for admission into the beta you can still get a good sense of how things work via Blender. It turns out Blender's remesh modifier uses the same technique to "smooth voxels".

[nbohr1more]

Interesting thread about strange books which includes a few 16th century codices which are yet untranslated:

 

 

I thought the Voynich Manuscript was the only thing like this but apparently it's got some company out there.

 

Though the if Codex Seraphinianus (1981) is any indicator, mental illness might be the birthplace of a few

codices...

[demagogue]

I remember reading that it was a whole subculture scene and there were numerous examples. Medieval and early modern occult writing generally is interesting.

 

[Atheran]

My favorite project to follow, Voxel Farm, is the engine behind Everquest's sequel, called Next Landmark. It's like Minecraft with voxels; you can manipulate all the geometry like ZBrush. Anyway, alpha testing started last month and some fans were able to join, and they've already built a lot of things in the game. This is a video of it.

 

Minecraft is voxel-based as well. In a much more primitive way than this but still...

 

Anyways I got some printed chapters from an awsome book about Victorian age architecture. It has pics/schetches from building facades to interiors to even different ornate details... Public libraries ftw!.

 

Check out if you local library has "Victorian Houses and their Details". Or well pirate it if you find it. It really worths it.

[grayman]

Check out if you local library has "Victorian Houses and their Details". Or well pirate it if you find it. It really worths it.

 

The Google told me where to find a PDF.

 

Very good reference book, with tons of drawings, elevations, and floor plans. It even has floor tile patterns, joinery, and furniture.

[Goldwell]

Wouldn't it be awesome if we could get outside views like this in game

 

 

It would be incredible to be going through a castle stealing plenty of great loot then you just pause for a moment and walk out on to the balcony for a view like that!

[Melan]

You could do it with a carefully built and optimised model. You couldn't go out and explore the place... but then running around in vineyards is probably not TDM's specialty.

 

Although now that I think of it, a vineyard-centric Pagan mission could just work.

 

[demagogue]

This is why I think Dark Mod and VoxelFarm are going to be my 2 perfect games, TDM for the awesome gameplay in tight atmospheric locations & VF for sandbox adventure maps in vast open areas areas (Minecraft in a Skyrim world, NB, not Landmark but a future game). Those are my 2 big gameplay itches, and they complement each other well. What one misses the other emphasizes.

 

The shared element are the fan maps, so endless content.