Poll: Inventory cycling

[Fidcal]

This is just an idea that's been nagging me about large cluttered inventories. I'm sure it was considered during development but now a year after release maybe it's worth a second look?

 

The idea is that the 'cycle inventory' would no longer cycle through everything but only through the current category (like the hotkey cycles.) So to use the inventory you would always cycle through the categories to which one you want and then cycle that category. Need that blue key you found? Cycle to keys then cycle through them like a key ring.

 

"But we can already do this!" I hear you cry. Not quite because you shoot over the end of the category. It's not the same as going round and round the same category.

 

If it could be optional then so much the better.

 

Another possibility is a mode key so the mousewheel scrolls categories to which you want. Hit a key. Continue scrolling the mousewheel within that category.

[STiFU]

To me, it seems like it makes things actually more complicating and I don't see any advantage in this change, to be honest.

 

The best thing against inventory clutter would be an actual gui popup on which you can use the mouse in order to pick your item. Definitely the most comfortable solution for inventory management, in my opinion, and the proper inventory icons are already available. It would help a lot in hectic situations, like when you try to use a mine as fast as possible. While the popup is open, the movement keys should still function, so that you can run and pick your item.

[Melan]

I believe the best defence against inventory clutter is to drop superfluous items, which is player-controlled. This can still be problematic with keys, but I am not seeing any great game-breaking issue here. Plus if people need to reach an item super-fast, they can assign a hotkey to it.

[Aprilsister]

I still am not quite sure a keyring that basically swallows every key and then serves as a single tool isn't the way to go... but I haven't thought about it much beyond just now.

 

But what would be good is a separate sack of inventory in which you can effectively drop what you deem to be superfluous without the totally-GoddamnitIgottaGoGetThatBack!-risk that may occur. This inventory would hold notes, keys (if the first thing I mentioned here isn't a go, maps, any tools the player doesn't really use for his/her game, anything that you want moved off of the immediate inventory.

[fllood]

But what would be good is a separate sack of inventory in which you can effectively drop what you deem to be superfluous without the totally-GoddamnitIgottaGoGetThatBack! -risk that may occur.

Yes, indeed that would be a very helpful feature.

 

Instead of sticking to categories what about thinking of an optional setting so that items assigend to hotkeys do not show while mouse-wheeling but only items not assigned to a hotkey. these are usually of the category keys, readables and usable objects, ecetera... Such a broader classification would smallen the item list for inventory cycling considerable as well. and without the laborious need of using a hotkey every time you like to change category first.

Edited December 21, 2010 by fllood

[Sotha]

To me, it seems like it makes things actually more complicating and I don't see any advantage in this change, to be honest.

 

The best thing against inventory clutter would be an actual gui popup on which you can use the mouse in order to pick your item. Definitely the most comfortable solution for inventory management, in my opinion, and the proper inventory icons are already available. It would help a lot in hectic situations, like when you try to use a mine as fast as possible. While the popup is open, the movement keys should still function, so that you can run and pick your item.

 

Agreed here. A popup gui with all the stuff neatly separated: items, keys, readables. It could even have the lootbag in which the player can drool over all the cool things (and values) he has already stolen.

 

There could be a few quick-item slots (pockets), say 4 of them. And the player could choose which items to put in these slots: lockpick 1, lockpick 2, flashbomb and a holy potion, for example. Later he could take the holy potion out and put the brass key there. These quick items could then be quickly chosen with the corresponding quick-slot key. h=slot1,j=slot2,k=slot3,l=slot4. Or the current inventory selection keys could simply swap between these quick-slots.

 

Just throwing ideas around. Please feel free to disagree.

[STiFU]

Just throwing ideas around. Please feel free to disagree.

I totally agree!! Damn much actually! Quickitemslots on F1 through F4, fully configurable through the Inventory-Menu. Static bindings just don't make sense, because you don't need a holy potion in a mansion FM and you don't need a flashbomb in a zombie mission. This feature would make the metagamemechanics really perfect.

[Springheel]

A popup gui with all the stuff neatly separated

 

I'm not a fan of an RPG-style inventory, personally.

[stumpy]

I do wish sometimes that the weapons that go in the inventory were seperate from the general stuff like keys and readables, and that maps of the area were also seperate from the weapons and general stuff. eg press the m key for maps then use the up down arrow keys to cycle through map levels.

[jaxa]

My current method / keybindings is to use the scroll wheel to cycle through all of the inventory items and use the number keys to switch weapons. As long as the scroll wheel is quick and I can back up if I overshoot, that works for me. Clutter can be avoided in several ways by mappers:

 

1. Missions only allow really important readables (explicit instructions, alarm codes, etc.) to be picked up. Other books are just read where they are found. If there are a lot of such important readables, you could maybe have a "notes" system like the really cool one in T2's Mission X or Fidcal's planned one, that records the important findings from a large variety of readables.

2. Single-use keys are used up when the door/chest is unlocked. For doors you might want to lock it to slow pursuers... for chests and other storage, you probably don't ever need the key after it's unlocked. You may shut the chests, etc. if AI react to open chests, or relock it if that's a mission objective and a scripted character checks the lockedness. With single-use keys you could potentially make a keyhunt without having more than 1 key in the inventory at all times.

3. Keyring as in GATI, Mission X, other missions. Keys listed in a notes system.

 

Edit: After re-reading Fidcal's idea it sounds a lot better.

Edited December 17, 2010 by jaxa

[Noisycricket]

It makes sense that you would go right to the area on your person where the keys are for example and wouldn't go "flashbomb?, no. Telescope? um no. Mine? Nope. Surely the compass? no.... But to keep the game easy to use for new players, i think the system should be optional and default [for now] with the previous option.

 

Thinking out loud:

I'd love to eventually see someone implement this in 3d. IE, when you switched to a lockpick, your right arm would up and into view with your hand making a fist, the other hand would slip the lockpick out out a band on the underside of your forearm and as soon as the hands went back down you could use it. And [yes im using and at the start of a sentence, i don't agree with our goofy conventions] when you switched to the compass, your hand would come put grasping an attractive looking 3d model which reacted to shadows. And when you needed to grab something large, you quickly shifted a rucksack around to the front and looked down into it, seeing the items in the bag which you simply clicked on to use, etc. And when you selected keys, your left hand came up and release a roll of padded fabric down your arm with key in bands that you could scroll with the mouse wheel. That would take a lot of work.

[Berny]

For me such a methode used in crysis would be nice, but only beside the current methode

[Diego]

Voted 'yes'. I would go even further and redesign the whole thing from start and make all the navigation with the mouse.

[Diego]

I don't understand why the reluctance in changing this.. yes, it's how it was in T1, 2, 3 but it sucks and it always sucked. You have to remove the hand from the mouse OR from the wasd keys and look at the keyboard in order to press those buttons.

 

Even in great games, there will always be room for improvement

[Springheel]

You have to remove the hand from the mouse OR from the wasd keys and look at the keyboard in order to press those buttons.

 

I scroll through my inventory with the mouse wheel. Quick and easy for the most part, and far less obtrusive than having a point and click menu.

[Noisycricket]

Personaly, for anything that, in real life, would cause you to have to look down to get done, like selecting a key from a set, i never mind looking at the keyboard for.

 

 

[Diego]

I scroll through my inventory with the mouse wheel. Quick and easy for the most part, and far less obtrusive than having a point and click menu.

 

I didn't know we could navigate with the scroll wheel! This is much better than hitting the keyboard.. I would suggest something like ctrl+scrollwheel = scroll groups

 

Personaly, for anything that, in real life, would cause you to have to look down to get done, like selecting a key from a set, i never mind looking at the keyboard for.

 

Forget "real life" arguments, that's just bad design.

[Fidcal]

I didn't know we could navigate with the scroll wheel! This is much better than hitting the keyboard.. I would suggest something like ctrl+scrollwheel = scroll groups

Yes, I was saying this the other day - perhaps on one of the private threads. If we had a shift mousewheel for going through the categories and the regular unshifted mousewheel only scrolls within the category it should be ideal imo.

 

What do others think of that idea? If there are enough to support it I'll add it to bugtracker.

[Berny]

it would also be nice if there was a real inventory - a simple one, just like gothic. Sometimes it's really annoying searching for the right key or item...

[Noisycricket]

Forget "real life" arguments, that's just bad design.

 

Too late, im set in my ways, as are the rest of us virtual reality lovers...

[OrbWeaver]

Voted no because I'd rather not add confusion to the existing system, but I would be in favour of an optional GUI overlay to display and choose from all items in the inventory. Some people might feel this is too RPG-like, but I would just consider it better UI design.

[demagogue]

I'm in favor of category-cycling, cntl-mouse wheel. But I'd still want the mousewheel to cycle through everything, NOT just the category, because many times when I'm in a bind I don't want to have to think about what I'm doing; I just want to start cycling until I find what I need, and I would be put off by having to go through 2 steps, back and forth, to cycle through everything.

 

As for a GUI inventory overlay, I don't like it either. I can agree it's good UI and good for some games, but I like that there is very little meta-UI in this game and it's quite minimalist, and an inventory grid would definitely change that character. So I think it's worth the cost. It's not even about "immersion". It's just part of the character of the game that I like. E.g., it means you largely interact with the objects as objects (granted not always); whereas on a grid you interact with them as icons much more. Like if you wanted one object to frob another, currently you have to drop one and then inventory-frob the other to it. With a grid you might pick up the icon and frob it to another icon. It's abstracting the objects which is good for some games but isn't right for this one IMO. Edit: If someone did implement it I'd be curious to see it and test it out, though.

[Springheel]

As for a GUI inventory overlay, I don't like it either. I can agree it's good UI and good for some games, but I like that there is very little meta-UI in this game and it's quite minimalist, and an inventory grid would definitely change that character.

 

I feel precisely the same way.

[Fidcal]

Well, I'd like to see the option to try it.

 

But demagogue, I don't quite see what you mean about back and forth two steps.

 

What you do to say find a particular blue key among say 30 inventory items (not counting hot keys)

 

At present:

 

Mousewheel down through say 15 items, perhaps even skip over it without realizing.

 

With category scrolling:

 

Ctrl + Mousewheel down through readables, potions, to keys.

Release ctrl and continue mousewheel down to blue key. If you go to far you are still in the keys (maybe just 3 of them) and keep going till you go round again, red key, green key, blue key, red key, green key, blue key.

 

Thinking about that I'm wondering if there is a case for mousewheel up through categories and mousewheel down within the category. So, up readables, up potions, up keys, down red key, down blue key. Might take some getting used to but with just two controls you don't need a shift and release two other controls for hot keys.

[demagogue]

But demagogue, I don't quite see what you mean about back and forth two steps.

 

When I'm just casually looking for a key because I'm in a safe place, I don't really care the method so much either way, and don't mind cycling through some crap.

 

Where the inventory-cycling method really matters I think is when you're on the run or in a risky situation and want to find a flash bomb or something you need. Or like the magic horn in Ominous Bequest you have to find and blow when burricks are suddenly charging you. If I'm not sure what kind of tool the magic horn is -- is it with the lock picks or the flashbombs? -- then I cycle through the categories to one I think it is, maybe with the lantern, then I have to cycle through that category to confirm if it's in there and if it's not I have to cycle through categories again, maybe with the flashbombs this time; or I get hung on readables and am absent mindedly cycling through it wasting time because I'm running. That's what I meant by back and forth. But that's actually not the bigger problem I was thinking. I was thinking more that all the while I'm on the run so maybe I'm not paying very close attention to which category it is at all, whether I'm on keys or readables now and which category was I looking for again?? I just want that horn ASAP, click click click, until I get to it because something is charging me. When it cycles through everything, there's more fluff, but there's less load on the attention, you just click till you're there.

 

Edit: Also, if you can cycle through categories, then it's easy to reset yourself at the start of the category by just using the category cycle again, or just change from cycling down to cycling up. Then you're only getting hung on one category because you intentionally want to be.