Thief 4 is trash.

[Springheel]

But it's hardly something to lose sleep over - it's pretty subtle. (not that being subtle is a reason to insist on it being a permanent feature.)

 

I have a hard time imagining how the white and red flashes all over the edges of the screen could be subtle. Do you have information I don't about this?

[jay pettitt]

It's at the edges. They're brief (over in a flash). They're even low opacity. What's hard?

Edited December 5, 2013 by jay pettitt

[Viktoria]

The shroud looks good to me.... I liked it from day one.

They said it was WIP and they do appear to have filtered it down a lot. So, I agree... it is subtle enough.

[New Horizon]

Yeah, but if you liked it from day 1 then it stands to reason that you're going to find it subtle enough. I never liked it and I still don't like it. Baffling to me is that you can completely remove the light gem. As limited as it may be in this game it's a staple from the series...yet you can not remove the shroud, something created only for this game. Yet, it was one of the things that has long been requested to turn off.

 

I'll never buy the game but, if a friend loans it to me, I'll happily look into hacking the shroud and those flashes OUT...as well as seeing if it's possible to reposition the gem.

[jay pettitt]

It is bizarre that the options are hugely comprehensive. Over the top so, but that they don't let you turn pretty much that one thing off.

 

Maybe there's a technical thing with how HUD elements are rendered that makes the shroud different somehow... but it is odd.

 

But pfft, I doubt it'll be the worst thing in T4, and if it is... hray.

[Springheel]

It's at the edges. They're brief (over in a flash). They're even low opacity. What's hard?

 

Maybe you're not bothered by bright flashes on your screen while playing. I am, especially when they're completely unnecessary.

 

I'm also annoyed that the lightgem is now ONLY a light gem, not a visibility gem. Even though crouching, etc, affects whether you're visible, the lightgem (and presumably the shroud) only tells you how much light is hitting you (in a highly simplified "dark/light/in between" trinary readout). That makes the gem FAR less useful.

[jtr7]

...............

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[Viktoria]

It's at the edges. They're brief (over in a flash). They're even low opacity. What's hard?

 

Yeah, the flash is very brief .... like the blink of an eye. It appears to work well as a visual warning.

I imagine that after a short time of playing you stop "noticing" it so much (as was stated by playtesters) as pretty much anything habitual becomes second nature after a while, or rather a subconscious action.

[Springheel]

Whether it's brief or not isn't the point. It's immersion breaking, and it's unnecessary, How much forethought is needed to realize that you should avoid flashing bright lights at a player in a game that's designed to be played in dark rooms?

[jtr7]

.................

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[jtr7]

..............

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[Vae]

Yeah, the flash is very brief .... like the blink of an eye. It appears to work well as a visual warning.

I imagine that after a short time of playing you stop "noticing" it so much (as was stated by playtesters) as pretty much anything habitual becomes second nature after a while, or rather a subconscious action

 

I know...The inescapable, red and white flashing lights are the perfect compliment for a THIEF game, because you're going to be in and out of the light, all the time...How else would the player know if they can be seen, or know if they get hurt, without a flash to the face?...Trust me, after a while you won't even notice all those bright flashes, once the game has had enough time to dumb-down and desensitize you...EM is happy with their choice!...and if you don't agree, then you are a Gloomsie!

 

Whether it's brief or not isn't the point. It's immersion breaking, and it's unnecessary, How much forethought is needed to realize that you should avoid flashing bright lights at a player in a game that's designed to be played in dark rooms?

 

Yes, a Flashing Shroud inhibits immersion without question...This is basic...Yet for EM, deep immersive play isn't the priority...it is to serve the inadequacy of the casual couch player...playing with the lights on.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Vae

[jtr7]

...............

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[Viktoria]

Whether it's brief or not isn't the point. It's immersion breaking, and it's unnecessary, How much forethought is needed to realize that you should avoid flashing bright lights at a player in a game that's designed to be played in dark rooms?

 

I do understand that everyone is different.

I don't find it necessarily immersion breaking as it happens so quickly and certainly those who have actually playtested stated they didn't notice it after a while... and that was the point I was making.

Hopefully it won't be so bad for you (and others) when you actually play... we'll soon find out.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Viktoria

[Vae]

I do understand that everyone is different.

I don't find it necessarily immersion breaking as it happens so quickly and certainly those who have actually playtested stated they didn't notice it after a while... and that was the point I was making.

 

As usual, you are incorrect...with your ignorant, relativistic conclusions...Objectively and universally, bright flashes of light that are incongruent with a simulated environment, are intrinsically immersion-breaking for the human mind...If there is no immersion break, then you were never immersed to begin with, and only engaged in the game.

[jay pettitt]

Yeah I think you might be over egging it just a tiny bit.

[Vae]

It might seem that way to someone with a weak grasp of such things.

[Viktoria]

Yeah I think you might be over egging it just a tiny bit.

 

Haha. Scrambled, for sure.

[Bridge]

Wait, fire arrows don't make the player fully visible? In the demo it seemed to only increase the player's visibility marginally, if indeed at all.

[jtr7]

...............

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[Vae]

I'm pretty sure we're going to see a lot more of these unfortunate inconsistencies.

 

 

Haha. Scrambled, for sure.

 

Why don't you tell me how I'm wrong, without resorting to idiotic remarks with a vacant smile on your face...Of course you can't, because I'm right about what I say...You're so desperate for me to be wrong, that you're willing to look like a complete fool by agreeing with false statements, just as long as they assert something contrary to what I've said.

 

I will enjoy your indiscriminate simple-mindedness...as it does entertain me.

 

 

All these visuals are probably replacing clever Thief-y use of audio. It'd improve continuity within the Thiaf canon itself to have the waypoint markers, and alertness icons for AIs that the player can't even see, as part of Focus.

 

I would think that the lower-fidelity stealth system will need to rely heavily on the Flashing Shroud...As the Flashing Shroud will be the dominant feedback device for NuThief...I think the NuGem has just been tacked-on by the devs, in order to appease the fans...It's a removable, crude, light-only gem with 3 stages....In truth, a mockery of the true 16-stage Viability Gem.

[jtr7]

..............

Edited February 19, 2014 by jtr7

[stumpy]

didn't their playtesters have problems with their 'deus ex' reboot, maybe they should change their playtesters they seem mighty thick.

[jay pettitt]

Why don't you tell me how I'm wrong, without resorting to idiotic remarks with a vacant smile on your face...Of course you can't, because I'm right about what I say...You're so desperate for me to be wrong, that you're willing to look like a complete fool by agreeing with false statements, just as long as they assert something contrary to what I've said.

 

oookay. So the poster who says...

 

"Yes, a Flashing Shroud inhibits immersion without question..."

 

...wants the other poster to justify themselves.

 

Actually, the shroud inhibiting immersion is very questionable.

 

It's questionable on the grounds that human psychology (which is at the root of immersion) is quite capable of doing its thing in numerous scenarios.

It's questionable on the basis that it's no more an immersion breaker than, say, a row of health shields or any other gamey feedback system.

It's questionable on the grounds of pragmatism - that games need additional feedback systems, so it's desirable to have compromises anyway.

It's questionable on the basis that it's actually just a very minimalistic, neat feedback system that adds additional value to something (a vignette) that many people would think desirable on its own.

 

And I'm sure more besides.

Edited December 6, 2013 by jay pettitt

[Viktoria]

Why don't you tell me how I'm wrong....

 

...as it does entertain me.

 

Apologies... I thought it was obvious I tend to skip past most of your posts.

 

Any sensible debate or question that lies within them is unfortunately drowned out by peculiar and quite unnecessary aggression.... thus I just don't feel any urge to respond.

I imagine you're permitted to say whatever you like that personally provides you with great pleasure and happiness through "entertainment"........ you'll just have to excuse me if I don't share the same entertainment values as you and thus have absolutely no interest in engaging.

 

I come here to listen to peoples thoughts and opinions on the game and express my own; that is all. I also visit this forum for the TDM fan missions. I'm not here to be rude to people or tell them they are wrong... or right. I remain respectful of all people and their opinions, regardless of whether or not I agree with them.

 

Now that I have answered your question, you should understand why I don't respond to you.

I shall continue to ignore you until such a time, of course, you decide to ask a question and/or conduct a worthwhile discussion with me without the habitual need to add pathetcally rude and self-righteous comments within your post.

 

Now THAT would be something I could respond to.

 

 

 

Wait, fire arrows don't make the player fully visible? In the demo it seemed to only increase the player's visibility marginally, if indeed at all.

 

 

Yeah, I wondered about that. No idea if it will make sense in the end but I recall Adam/B1skit mentioning that more information about the arrows is/was in the pipeline. Hope that is still happening.

 

The only logical conclusion I personally can come up with is that the fire arrow head holds a sort of "microflame" in the casement and perhaps the flame is hardly visible to the naked eye - particularly from straight ahead and at a distance. Perhaps you could spot it if you just happen to be looking right at it and see movement to draw your attention. I imagine it burns low because it remains in a state of non-combustion until it breaks out of its casing on impact? No real clue myself. Technically speaking, little miniature "fires" happen all the time at the molecular level and as Thief retains the "mystical"... I guess there is little point trying to justify the science behind the idea (if it is their idea?).

No doubt we'll know more about the arrows in due course. I'm looking forward to that.