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Newbie DarkRadiant Questions


demagogue

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You can use any number of additional digits to the used_by spawnarg eg,

 

used_by1 simplekey

used_by2 anotherkey

 

Got it, just had to change the entry used_by to used_by1 and click apply. thank you - Fidcal

 

funny thing is that I actually was doing your personal tutorial and was stuck, because i was looking for another property named used_by1.

 

Thanks again.

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Could someone explain a little bit more in depth how inserting a sky works? What if I have a balcony, do I have to make a room and remove all the walls and texture the ceiling with a sky brush? When I create an outside area and the ceiling needs to be higher than the walls, will this not cause leaks? As you can see, I don't really understand everything, if anything, about skies. An in depth step by step guide to insert skies would be much appreciated. Cheers

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Yes, basically you create another room adjoining the first and texture it with sky. This room needs to be sealed like any other so if there are gaps then just fill them with brushes and again, texture the inside with whatever is appropriate.

 

This sky room does not need to be high but note that it is solid. So in theory it can be a ceiling just above the player's head but if he jumps he will hit it. If he stands on a crate then he will have to crouch. So make it just reasonably high. If you make it the same height as your real room then it may be OK.

 

The sky will always look far away even if it is one inch away from the player so this room does not need to be deep. If the balcony rail is solid stone then create a brush above it of sky. Note that this will be solid so the player cannot jump off the balcony. If they shoot an arrow it will not go beyond the sky wall. Seem players hate these invisible walls and some don't mind. If you don't want such a wall then it means a lot more work. You have to consider what will happen if the player jumps off. If you have played Chalice of Kings then look at how the the sky was done in the yard and through the glass windows. You can climb up on the walls but the sky is solid. (you might need to extract the map from chalice.pk4 by renaming it temporarily to .zip)

 

If the balcony rail is an open metal rod fence for example then build the sky wall just immediately behind it.

 

There are also two types of sky: static and dynamic. The first gives better performance and just needs a texture from darkmod\nature\skybox. The second looks better with moving clouds and twinkling stars. But this needs two things:

 

Texture with smf\portal_sky

Make sure Texture lock is ON (Surface Inspector)

Right click your map in the grid plan view well away from anywhere you might build.

Insert one of the skyboxes from prefab nature\skyboxes

This effectively works as if it had a little camera inside transmitting and your portal_sky texture is a big tv screen seeing what it sees.

 

 

Post again if you need more clarification.

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Perhaps I should add that even on a small balcony, if you look back at the door you came through then you can see the walls on either side and above and below to some extent so you sky room needs to be at least begin enough for that - and of course, you texture that with brick or stone whatever. Do it very simply at first so you can adjust before you waste time with detail.

 

If this is a small FM for the contest then I recommend you keep this balcony very tiny in depth to restrict the players view and also put a stone overhead ledge to block the view above.

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Small question about models here: If I export a mesh as .obj and then open it in Blender to edit it further, is there anything special I have to do before I export it as .ase? I can't get any .ase files that were originally from Dark Radiant to appear. Files that I created from scratch in Blender seem to appear just fine.

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Small question about models here: If I export a mesh as .obj and then open it in Blender to edit it further, is there anything special I have to do before I export it as .ase? I can't get any .ase files that were originally from Dark Radiant to appear. Files that I created from scratch in Blender seem to appear just fine.

The model must be one Blender object for each shader you're using - so you might need to separate your geometry in case you need more than one tex. Furthermore, it should be properly UV-mapped, triangulated (Ctrl-T, IIRC), and the scale and rotation should be applied (I think that's Ctrl-A in object mode) before exporting it. Then your ASE file must be tweaked (the *BITMAP) line, before the shader shows up in-game.

 

I recall there is a small tool written by Constantine, which is monitoring a certain folder and is automatically updating the ASE file if it finds a new one. I think that was mentioned in the internal forums.

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Would putting a large ceiling with a sky texture above the complete map work? The sky prefab is automatically used by the way? I just have to keep it outside where I'm bullding and then it will be used where necesarry?

 

Yes, if you choose to use one of the dynamic skybox prefabs then you only need the one and then wherever you texture in your map with portal_sky will show as that sky.

 

Sky shows wherever the player can see the sky texture. If you have built a street and the ceiling is sky then it shows as sky. If you are inside a closed room and you put a big sky brush above the whole map then you won't see it - if that's what you mean.

 

If you mean can you build a big box with sky at the top then build buildings inside it into which the player can go in and out then yes that is possible but you are likely to get performance problems so not for the beginner plus no internal leaks will be reported giving even more performance problems. I don't recommend it except for the advanced user. If you want open areas then build them as rooms joined together. A street or a yard is just a 'room box' with a sky ceiling. If you can't visualize how these go together you should study some of the existing maps such as chalice and outpost and patently_dangerous which all have sky.

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If you mean can you build a big box with sky at the top then build buildings inside it into which the player can go in and out then yes that is possible but you are likely to get performance problems so not for the beginner plus no internal leaks will be reported giving even more performance problems. I don't recommend it except for the advanced user. If you want open areas then build them as rooms joined together. A street or a yard is just a 'room box' with a sky ceiling. If you can't visualize how these go together you should study some of the existing maps such as chalice and outpost and patently_dangerous which all have sky.

 

Yeah that's what I meant, so that's a no go. Okay final question about sky, and then it's completely clear to me. I stand on a balcony and I can look over a wall. Do I have to place a wall behind the wall I'm looking over with a sky texture on it, or would I have to place some house textures and streets to make it more realistic. I can't really explain very clear in words, but what would be the most logical thing to place behind a wall a player can look over. I hope you understand what I mean.

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It depends on the location and what effect you want. If you are looking out from a castle high in a mountain then the sky with the dark ground might do. If you are looking out onto a street then you need to build the street or use a custom sky texture with a street. The only one I know of is the one used in chalice. If you build the wall say 4 feet high then the sky brush wall sits on top of that but pushed back to the thickness of the wall you want. You'll learn a lot faster by looking at existing maps. This is exactly how it is set up in the Chalice yard except for the heights of course. The sky texture works in such a way that the player has the illusion of looking down over the wall when in fact he is looking at a brush a few inches in front of him.

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It depends on the location and what effect you want. If you are looking out from a castle high in a mountain then the sky with the dark ground might do. If you are looking out onto a street then you need to build the street or use a custom sky texture with a street. The only one I know of is the one used in chalice. If you build the wall say 4 feet high then the sky brush wall sits on top of that but pushed back to the thickness of the wall you want. You'll learn a lot faster by looking at existing maps. This is exactly how it is set up in the Chalice yard except for the heights of course. The sky texture works in such a way that the player has the illusion of looking down over the wall when in fact he is looking at a brush a few inches in front of him.

 

Thanks for the answers, it's becoming clear to me. I'll take a look at the Chalice and how that is built, because I think that's what I want. If it's not too difficult for a beginner of course. I'll just make another back up of my existing map and will try some stuff.

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Yes, in this case I think you will learn by trial and error. I suggest even possibly making a new simple map of just two rooms together which you can make in 5 minutes. Then experiment with the sky texture to see the effects and the problems. I think the main problem may be looking back at the house. Even from two paces you should see the walls of the house. That might involve substantial building depending on the situation. Are you certain you need a balcony? Worth considering just a glass window which is far easier (see how in Chalice.) Or one of those tiny balconies which essential are a wrought iron fence immediately outside so you can open the full height windows inward to let the air in and stand at the window but you can't actually step out. So you would then only need a very shallow box room outside the window.

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Maybe I'll just stick to the sky texture. I took a look at the chalice and how that is built, and got demotivated right a way. It's way too difficult at the moment for me, so maybe something for later. I still want to complete my map so I'll stick to simple things for now :).

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Hey, just got into darkradiant some days ago. ( it's great! ) my questions are:

 

1. I tried making a small hut, snowing outside.

The problem is that player can climb up and see that snow isnt falling above the roof.

Wouldn't be a problem in this case cause it's a realy small hut and visually it is quite tricky to notice the miss, but what if i had some bigger spaces that should be avoided by particles, like a cellar under the courtyard or a crypt in a cemetery. Is it possible to solve this by stopping/hiding particles where they dont belong or maps should just be desinged in a way so this is avoided?

 

2. Is it possible to create a readable like entities to view for example a painting close up? a carving on a grave/rock? i saw the backround can be changed and 'Patiently dangerous' contained pics in the readables so i guess it can be done i am just interested what the limitations are if any?

 

3. Last for now is about sound. I didnt manage to find out how i could make an ambient-like sound like a wolf howl to repeat every set or random x sec. tried doing it with loop on and wait:D but guess its not for that as owls went raving...:)

Edited by _Atti_
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1. Snow and rain just have to be carefully arranged so the player cannot get above; they must be higher than the player can reach. Examine Thief's Den to see the many rain patches. This eyeline problem also applies to skyboxes generally where the illusion is broken and it is just a matter of careful planning and arrangement. :)

 

2. Yes, custom readables can be made with graphics. Not certain it would make a lot of sense but if you wanted say to frob a painting and get a full screen view then that is possible. You would make a readable gui file (see prefab readables for examples) with the painting as the background then make the painting a static readable.

 

3. Study the wiki on speakers etc and also existing FMs. There are variations in the way they are set up. Here is a section on repeating: http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Sounds:_Background_and_Local#wait_.28repeat.29

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Sorry - I think I misunderstood what you meant about the snow - although the answer is much the same. You mean the problem is that snow and rain penetrate straight through brush roofs and fall inside in the hut or similar. But if you avoid placing the snow/rain patches above such then it can be noticeable outside. No easy solution except careful planning. I had this with rain above the little tudor house in Den. I think I managed to obscure it with player clip above the roof to prevent the player climbing up. In the future it might be possible to produce new rain/snow particle effects where there is better control of the depth they move down through.

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Yes, I think one solution there might be as easy as new particle effects that just don't fall as far (maybe have a set of them falling to different heights).

 

Re: the painting idea. That would be pretty cool. You frob it and you'd get a pop-up on a detail in one corner of the painting with a mysterious scrawl that's a hint. That's completely possible and a cool idea, IMO.

 

You can open up the .xdata file in Patently Dangerous, look for "blueprints" and "end_pages" (I think?) where I put those images in the books and use that as a model. You'd do basically exactly the same thing for the painting set up as a static letter entity, one page, replacing the entire page-image with your custom-image in the same way I did, and packaging your custom-image in the .pk4. (If you look at it and still need help, ask again and I can go into more detail.)

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

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Yes, there are lots of possibilities. This is how I did my nametags to help ID different characters in the game. At one time you could creep up to the cook in Chalice and read the tag on the back of his collar. Might still be in there as it was very discreet. I know many did beta test it with the tag in but never noticed. But I think I took it out because of lack of interest. I might re-instate it in Heart because there are quite a lot of characters in the story and you need to know who they are. Unless you want to kill them all first of course. :laugh:

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So, I decided to start messing around in DR, just using Thieves as a testbed for what it can do etc (since I have never really mapped like this)...

 

Anyhoo - node link lines pic

 

The 3/4 lines that link to the cursor all come from ai path corners, I am not too sure why they want to hug the crosshair, but wherever I am on the map they will surely follow. I made sure everything is linked correctly, as the problem exists even after reloading the map. The lines also show us going towards an asymptote on the orth view.

 

Another minor issue is that the textures often become... distrorted

 

I always get an error about a chest lid being outside of a valid AAS node, however it seems to be quite happy where it is. This does not stop the map loading.

 

After making a number of new changes, I have to dmap the map, if I devmap a first time the map wont start, it will just return to main menu, a 2nd or 3rd try will almost instantly start the map. Not 100% sure on what its doing, not too much of a problem as it works first time if I had to start it normally.

 

Other than that - excellent work on DR, greebo and co :3

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So, I decided to start messing around in DR, just using Thieves as a testbed for what it can do etc (since I have never really mapped like this)...

 

Anyhoo - node link lines pic

 

The 3/4 lines that link to the cursor all come from ai path corners, I am not too sure why they want to hug the crosshair, but wherever I am on the map they will surely follow. I made sure everything is linked correctly, as the problem exists even after reloading the map. The lines also show us going towards an asymptote on the orth view.

 

Another minor issue is that the textures often become... distrorted

 

I always get an error about a chest lid being outside of a valid AAS node, however it seems to be quite happy where it is. This does not stop the map loading.

 

After making a number of new changes, I have to dmap the map, if I devmap a first time the map wont start, it will just return to main menu, a 2nd or 3rd try will almost instantly start the map. Not 100% sure on what its doing, not too much of a problem as it works first time if I had to start it normally.

 

Other than that - excellent work on DR, greebo and co :3

 

Don't use Devmap. Just map <mapname>, all cheats are enabled.

For your texture issue you can use the Naturaly command in the texture tool. Also if you need better alignment you can use the Surface Inspector.

I always assumed I'd taste like boot leather.

 

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Don't use Devmap. Just map <mapname>, all cheats are enabled.

For your texture issue you can use the Naturaly command in the texture tool. Also if you need better alignment you can use the Surface Inspector.

 

Ah fair enough, just used to devmap, but map seems to work as expected.

 

The problem with textures is specific to the render, they look as if everything is environment mapped with their texture, so when you move the camera around they distort and react... somewhat annoying when trying to do texture work, ok for construction tho.

 

I've also noticed archers throw arrows at you, is this intended? Im sure I've been shot by one before who wasnt just throwing the arrows at insane velocity :P

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