Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

D3 Open Source coming soon...


AluminumHaste

Recommended Posts

Problem is, you'd still need D3 to run the actual game, unless someone also re-implements the physics/rendering/sound/loading engine etc . But you mean that this "TDM stripped" would simply to gather efforts from people?

 

I'm not talking about writing an engine from scratch here.

 

I'm saying that when the engine goes open source you'll have the code needed to produce a standalone game. The physics, rendering, and sound handling code will be there.

 

The only thing you'd need from Doom 3 at that point are art assets. But the game doesn't have to crash if you are missing those assets. It simply needs to fallback to a set of proxies like black boxes, checkerboard textures, and in the case of sounds a beep.

 

This isn't a problem for people who've purchased Doom 3. They simply copy over the PK4s and all is well. The difference is that people who don't have Doom 3 aren't shit out of luck. They can still experience TDM. They just don't get the full experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only thing you'd need from Doom 3 at that point are art assets. But the game doesn't have to crash if you are missing those assets.

 

It will if you're missing animations.

 

Beyond that, replacing assets is only the second half of the battle. First you have to identify which assets came from D3 in the first place. Is there an automated method that would catch a texture that has been copied from D3, converted to .dds and renamed? Is there an automated method that would catch a head mesh that has been copied from D3 and re-rigged to a different skeleton? What about a model that has been copied, resized and re-saved under a different filename? I know of multiple examples of all of those cases.

 

Rather than trying to replace assets, it would be much easier to specifically create a map/maps that ONLY uses assets we are sure have no connection to D3. Default AI only, no zombies, no D3 heads, no spiders, no blood splatters or anything using D3 impact sounds, etc. Someone would still have to double-check the assets were definitely ours, but that would be a hell of a lot less work. Then some kind of "TDM Demo" that bundles those maps could be released, for those without D3.

(That's assuming there isn't a lot of coding involved; I can't even guess at what might be necessary.)

 

Someone could start on such a map now, if they wanted to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that the D3-derivated art assets will be the hardest part to find, but we have SVN logs and we could do binary / block-level comparisons of our files to find the renamed D3 ones. Also, I'm not sure if a re-rigged and re-skinned head is going to cause any copyright problems, as it's largely unrecognisable whether the bunch of vertices came from D3 or from oddity's models or both. It's only part of the 3D coordinates which are matching, the textures, UV coords and skin weights are different (I'm not a lawyer, as you can tell). The D3 heads and body parts maybe are the most obvious rip-offs, which need to be replaced.

 

Light shaders are easy. Animations are a bit harder. Impact sounds and whole zombie models are definitely a challenge to replace.

 

As far as C++ code is concerned, I don't see any problems with that. In the case D3 goes GPL all of our code is immediately free from that point on, so we don't need to scour through that and remove anything.

 

For D3 scripts: either these files are GPL'd as well, or we "just" need to remove the D3 parts, which is not a biggie as we don't use much D3 script code anymore. Apart from a few animation scripts (which have been heavily re-scripted in the past already) there is not much we're using from vanilla D3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the point is for people who *cannot* buy D3 anymore. Just imagine it gets delisted at Steam for whatever reasons (or Valve closes shop entirely). You already have problems buying Doom3 in Germany, because it is rated 18+ (meaning you need either a credit card for Steam (which is so 18+automatially, too) or find some online dealer (which also makes it automatically 18+). This will only get worse over time.

 

Anyway, we surely have way too many work and way too little people. :(

 

Hmm, well how bad are the restrictions in Germany? Why can't you just go to amazon, or EBay. In addition I don't think we have to worry about steam going out of business. How about if steam DOES go out of business then we can worry about it? :ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, well how bad are the restrictions in Germany? Why can't you just go to amazon, or EBay.

 

You cannot buy 18+ rated games online, unless the dealer does quite a lot of hops (verify yu etc.) That is either costly (Okaysoft wants I think 5Euro registering, plus 2 euro per game, plus the whole send-your-papers there), or simply impossible (f.i. Amazon.de doesn't sell most things in this category). Ebay is out of the question, they pull auctions for these items (or don't show them if you have a german IP).

 

Ebay doesn't list if for Germany, Amazon does, but it is a third-party seller:

 

http://www.amazon.de/ACTIVISION-Doom-III/dp/B0002OJU1Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1278308211&sr=8-1

 

Btw, it is illegal in Germany to "import" such items, meaning if you simply order in Austria, and the border control finds your package, it is gone. That means, you usually can buy such things abroad, but it is a risky that money and goods are gone. I am atm not sure if there is even a fine you have to pay or if that is dropped if the goods value is less than X €.

 

Oh aren't intellectual property laws combined with "think of the children" wonderful?

 

In addition I don't think we have to worry about steam going out of business. How about if steam DOES go out of business then we can worry about it? :ph34r:

 

As far as "Germans under 18 for doom3 shopping" are concerned, Steam is already out of business :)

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh! :o I had no idea how stiff the game regulations were over there! That's tough I suppose you have a point then :wacko:

 

edit: Do they do the same with older games like quake and quake 2 and if so are there shops that sell these old games around? I'm not suggesting we leave D3 to these shops just out of curiosity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gotta love the genius of politicians. Because, of course, there was absolutely no history of violence in Germany until video games came along.

Of course there wasn't. Didn't you know the Nazi's were inspired by Wolfenstein? id Software has a lot to answer for. rolleyes.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And what about all the fat kids who were inspired by PacMan? Say no to the pie-shaped yellow menace!

Come the time of peril, did the ground gape, and did the dead rest unquiet 'gainst us. Our bands of iron and hammers of stone prevailed not, and some did doubt the Builder's plan. But the seals held strong, and the few did triumph, and the doubters were lain into the foundations of the new sanctum. -- Collected letters of the Smith-in-Exile, Civitas Approved

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm hoping if the D3 stuff goes open-source, we can have the load times cut down a bit. Do not take this as any kind of criticism or insult, it is just an observation. I was recently playing Quake 4 and Prey on Linux, and the maps load up much faster than maps in Doom 3 and TDM do.

--- War does not decide who is right, war decides who is left.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So far I've seen that map load times appear to be related to how the video driver tries to optimize or pre-process data before it hits the video card... I believe that this factor is entirely up to the video card vendors... (just from anecdotal evidence at Rage3d forums regarding load times...) :unsure:

 

(plus... bigger maps = bigger load times :P )

Edited by nbohr1more

Please visit TDM's IndieDB site and help promote the mod:

 

http://www.indiedb.com/mods/the-dark-mod

 

(Yeah, shameless promotion... but traffic is traffic folks...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once the source is made available, could the renderer be made to load portions of the geometry (separated by visportals) during runtime rather than all in one go, or is that just being silly? biggrin.gif

 

 

I know that some games do this kind of loading behind the scenes to avoid load zones etc, though I'd imagine the engine and maps have to be designed from the ground up with this in mind.

 

I've never minded the loading times myself, though I know some people have had problems due to their gfx cards / settings, so I'm not suggesting this is even something to consider, just curious about the technical feasibility of this being done in D3/TDM.

Edited by Midnight
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once the source is made available, could the renderer be made to load portions of the geometry (separated by visportals) during runtime rather than all in one go, or is that just being silly? biggrin.gif

 

 

I know that some games do this kind of loading behind the scenes to avoid load zones etc, though I'd imagine the engine and maps have to be designed from the ground up with this in mind.

 

I've never minded the loading times myself, though I know some people have had problems due to their gfx cards / settings, so I'm not suggesting this is even something to consider, just curious about the technical feasibility of this being done in D3/TDM.

 

The engine does this already for models, clipmodels and texture etc. I am not sure it would make sense to load world geometry in portions, tho, it is the smallest part of a level.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm hoping if the D3 stuff goes open-source, we can have the load times cut down a bit. Do not take this as any kind of criticism or insult, it is just an observation. I was recently playing Quake 4 and Prey on Linux, and the maps load up much faster than maps in Doom 3 and TDM do.

Posh. I've finally purchased Thief [3] - Deadly Shadows. And I HATE the loading and quickloading times. TDM is lightning-fast in comparison.

yay seuss crease touss dome in ouss nose tair

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as "Germans under 18 for doom3 shopping" are concerned, Steam is already out of business :)

 

it's sad for the 18-

but is the dark mod really concerned? I was thinking it was only played by people that played thiefs for the last 12years, menaing that they almost all are over 18...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Ansome

      Taking a break to alleviate burnout. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have jumped into a map-making contest so quickly after just finishing another project and especially with my busy schedule, but I do believe I have something that the community will enjoy. No clue if I'll be able to finish it on time for the competition if I factor in a break, but I'd rather take my time and deliver something of quality rather than engage in development crunch or lose part of the map's soul to burnout.
      · 1 reply
    • Skaruts

      Working on an update for my mission By The Cookbook. If anyone that played it has any further bugs to report, please let me know.
      I posted more details about the update in the mission thread.
      · 1 reply
    • lucien

      being thankful for tdm is a good feeling
      · 0 replies
    • The Black Arrow

      Happy birthday to me!
      Yes, today's my birthday and as much as I want to play The Dark Mod, I won't until it's late Autumn, where it should be a bit chilly in my place and there's some wind too.
      For now, it's time to enjoy my birthday, if any of you want to play a great fan mission in my honour...Well that's asking too much, just play the mission because it's fun, not because of me, enjoy it yourself! 💪
      · 5 replies
    • nbohr1more

      New texture wiki article created: https://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?title=Creating_textures_from_Ornate_Photos
      · 11 replies
×
×
  • Create New...