Jump to content
The Dark Mod Forums

This is going to be a fantastic mod


Carnage

Recommended Posts

I've followed the progress of The Dark Mod for years now, but never posted anything. Don't know why actually (probably just a lazy taffer), but now that the release is so close I just want to let you know how much respect I have for you all. A lot of (probably most of) your spare time have gone in creating this mod and after all these years most of you are still together. It takes a lot of determination to do such a thing and I respect you all for that. I'm looking forward to the release of this fantastic mod.

 

Besides the praise, I also have a small question related to creating maps for TDM. I started playing T2 again a few months ago and started creating a story for a FM. I wanted to create one for T2 but now that TDM is coming I might as well start with a FM for that. I know how to work with DromEd 2 a bit and now I wonder TDM Mapping is similar or even easier? Would it take more time to create a map for TDM or T2?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the words. :)

 

Fidcal or Komag are probably the best candidates to judge whether it is actually easier to build stuff in DarkRadiant - but I presume it is. For both worlds it holds true that you'll get a hell of a lot faster with growing experience.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides the praise, I also have a small question related to creating maps for TDM. I started playing T2 again a few months ago and started creating a story for a FM. I wanted to create one for T2 but now that TDM is coming I might as well start with a FM for that. I know how to work with DromEd 2 a bit and now I wonder TDM Mapping is similar or even easier? Would it take more time to create a map for TDM or T2?

 

Well..i'm not exactly a great mapper but i can tell you from my own experience that Dark Radiant is very user friendly and it doesn't take much time for you to build a decent map

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have created both Thief 2 and Dark Mod FMs and can confirm that to make a similar mission is probably easier and faster in Dark Radiant to produce a Dark Mod FM than the equivalent Dromed FM. This is very subjective of course but what is certain is that there not a lot in it. In other words I guarantee it won't be harder to make a Dark Mod FM. In addition to all that, the end result is always better. For every hour you spend building a Dark Mod FM it is certain to be better quality. So it's better *value* for the same effort. If you drag out a Dromed room and texture it then the same effort in Dark Radiant is bound to look better because the texture quality is far higher. If you insert a model then the quality of that model will be better, and so on. You can drag out a brush in Dromed to produce a simple room and texture it in half a minute in Dromed. You can do a similar thing in Dark Radiant by dragging out a brush.

 

Of course, there is a learning curve but if you start with our guide you will quickly be producing FMs. You can browse through this to get a feel for what is involved. Good luck!....

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...e_Start_Here%21

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I absolutely love Dark Radiant. Its my favorite map making tool. I used to do a lot of Half-Life and Half-life 2 mapping, but after using DR, its hooked me :)

 

After learning the ropes and getting used to it, you'll start to mapping pretty fast. Whether you have pre-made drawn out plans for a map or just go along with it in your head, its an amazing tool.

 

Plus its opensource and always being updated :)

 

I highly recommend trying it out.

|=-=------=-=|

happycheeze.deviantart.com

 

Moddb

 

Gamers Outreach, a nonprofit that uses videogames to raise money for chairty.

|=-=------=-=|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't posted much here but I lurk a lot. There's not usually a whole lot to discuss since I don't have access to the SUPER SECRET VOLCANO ISLAND SUBFORUM™.

 

I tried to learn DromEd, but I ended up hating the thing and finding it a drag. I've played with Dark Radiant though, and it certainly does look good. Can't wait to get stuck in.

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, I sold a bunch of my old toys that I had stashed away so that I can afford a new computer for when TDM is released.  ^_^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I concur with Fidcal. Having spent a LOT of time with Dromed (1 and 2) and with Dark Radiant and the Dark Mod, I can say that Dark Mod editing is easier. One of the main reasons is that it is more intuitive - you build more straightforwardly, instead of "tricking" the program to create the stuff you really want. Manipulating brushes is incredibly fast and easy and flexible, and working with patches, once mastered, quickly provides you with nice curves for arches, ramps, hedges, etc.

 

I'll never work with Dromed again, it's just too old and buggy, whereas Dark Radiant is new, runs properly in a Windows environment, had TONS of built in features (such as model viewer), and doesn't crash much!

 

I would also suggest NOT doing any "practicing" with Dromed, because it's quite different and you're probably better off just starting with Dark Radiant from the beginning.

shadowdark50.gif keep50.gif
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another aspect of Dark Radiant that is far superior to DromEd is the ability to undo or make tweqs to your architecture later on without feeling a sense of dread. Being able to resize individual brushes of a room rather than a frightening "resize" command on the entire room has done wonders for my blood pressure.

-DS:12

--- Author of:

 

Tomb of Horrors (coming January 2011)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've found that Dromed and Dark Radiant have different mind-sets in the sense that you build differently for additive vs subtractive geometry.

 

At the beginning of DR mapping, I was using the brush-subtract tool a lot, from my dromed habits, and very quickly found out that's a dangerous way to build in DR and only leads to mis-shaped brushes and exploding numbers of triangles!! So if anything it's good to get dromed habits totally out of your mind and build-up with individual brushes like you're supposed to.

 

(Not surprisingly the opposite applies to Dromed; seeing Komag reminds me of his story that he built The Tower using individual brushes for walls, which you can see when you walk through it... but that's a really bad idea in Dromed. In DR that's exactly what you want to do.)

 

One thing that really puts DR over the top is how easy it is to script things, or create new entities to do cool things that you want. Like Komag was saying, you don't have to "trick" an entity to do what you want, you just tell it directly and it'll do it (usually, there are still a few hard wired walls, but even those can come down when the engine goes open source).

 

I still plan on doing dromed projects on occasion though, smaller things maybe ... just to keep a hand in it, and sometimes working with older and simpler tools has its own interest. But the bigger stuff will go to TDM just so I can realize bigger visions.

What do you see when you turn out the light? I can't tell you but I know that it's mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reading all the replies it seems that it certainly is the best idea to work with DR from the beginning. I don't have a lot of experience with DromEd, so I suppose it gives me some advantage in reducing errors I would otherwise make. I also have the feeling that a FM with DromEd would take me quite a lot longer to complete than with DR, if I understand your replies correctly of course :laugh: . That everything looks better in the end is a nice addition :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just had to log in and say, congratulations TDM team. This is looking to be a great mod, it's even convinced lazy-ass me to try and make a mission in DarkRadiant. Congrats.

Ha! So what if I am, huh? Anyways, I work better when I'm drunk. It makes me fearless! If I see a bad guy, I'll just point my sword at him. And saaaaaay "HEY! Bad guy! You're not s'pposed to be here! Go home or I'll stick you with my sword...'til you go...'Ouch I'm dead!' Ahahahah (hic) See? Ain't no one gonna be messin with old Benny."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest tip I can give any newcomer is to think small. The most common error beginners make is to have a grand over-ambitious plan that uses up months of effort, become a millstone round your neck and is never finished. This is true not only for the extent of terrain but also size of buildings and views which cause performance problems not even the expert can always solve. Always start with a modest, simple plan with minimum potential technical difficulties. Once you have properly finished your first little mission then you have a better idea what is in store if you try to do something bigger.

 

Consider also that building the terrain is only half of making an FM which leads to the second most common error of beginners - "I've nearly finished!" No you haven't. :laugh: You're probably about half way. You've only finished when you have done all the lighting, readables, AI and patrols, monsterclipping, visportalling, decal grime, etc. etc. and it's packaged up in a distributable pk4, with fully working objectives and fully tested and approved by beta testers. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest tip I can give any newcomer is to think small. The most common error beginners make is to have a grand over-ambitious plan that uses up months of effort, become a millstone round your neck and is never finished. This is true not only for the extent of terrain but also size of buildings and views which cause performance problems not even the expert can always solve. Always start with a modest, simple plan with minimum potential technical difficulties. Once you have properly finished your first little mission then you have a better idea what is in store if you try to do something bigger.

 

Consider also that building the terrain is only half of making an FM which leads to the second most common error of beginners - "I've nearly finished!" No you haven't. :laugh: You're probably about half way. You've only finished when you have done all the lighting, readables, AI and patrols, monsterclipping, visportalling, decal grime, etc. etc. and it's packaged up in a distributable pk4, with fully working objectives and fully tested and approved by beta testers. ;)

 

Thank you for reminding me/everyone of that. I was already starting to think bigger and bigger, but a modest mission will probably take some months to complete. I'll focus on story and what kind of readables I want in my mission first and then with the actual building of it. Maybe the beta is already released by then. It's not a big issue to implement stuff from the current release into the beta release? I recon it won't, but just want to be sure :laugh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am really glad and impressed you guys stuck through all of it, for this length of time!! A while ago I noticed quite a "few" questions being asked as to WHEN was it going to be finished.. After seeing these questions, I thought, Man, how are they doing? A project of this size can create so many problems for member-member interaction, or even member-life interaction! Replies to my posting of your welfare said you were all doing well, and then I knew this would be finished and not left hanging

Thank you so much for your effort& sacrifice!!!!!!!! What a team!

 

I cant wait to start working on it & playing the fm's this is a dream come true, especially since the big let down (IMO) of T3. Incredibly exciting to see what will be made from DM by the thief community!

 

Thanks again ( can never be said too much)

 

m

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not a big issue to implement stuff from the current release into the beta release? I recon it won't, but just want to be sure :laugh:
No serious difficulties. You might have to swap and replace a few textures if the path has changed. If you are using builders as AI then they have more variations now you might want to consider. Just ask here if anything not obvious.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

To make building FMs even easier there will be a startpack FM download available with all the main components for a finished FM. Basically you install it as an FM and start building in it instead of a blank map. It's easier to delete what you don't want than to figure out how get things working in the first place. For now, browse the summary and introduction to keep it in mind for the future....

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...appers%27_Guide

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To make building FMs even easier there will be a startpack FM download available with all the main components for a finished FM. Basically you install it as an FM and start building in it instead of a blank map. It's easier to delete what you don't want than to figure out how get things working in the first place. For now, browse the summary and introduction to keep it in mind for the future....

 

http://wiki.thedarkmod.com/index.php?...appers%27_Guide

 

It keeps getting better and better :rolleyes: . I'll be waiting eagerly....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've used Valve Hammer, Worldcraft, The T3 editor, the Unreal3 editor, Doom3edit and the dromEd. DR blows them all out of the water, ironically even the D3 editor in which it's based. It's so much more stable, quicker and user friendly, I don't even map with the other programs anymore because DR has spoiled me :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've used Valve Hammer, Worldcraft, The T3 editor, the Unreal3 editor, Doom3edit and the dromEd. DR blows them all out of the water, ironically even the D3 editor in which it's based. It's so much more stable, quicker and user friendly, I don't even map with the other programs anymore because DR has spoiled me :P

 

Yeah, I was really really tempted to map our new apartment with DR because the free 3d modelling programs (sweethome 3d f.i.) are really really crappy to use and miss tons of features.

 

Actually, using DR is still a good idea, probably needs a few textures, tho... hohum.

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

 

"Remember: If the game lets you do it, it's not cheating." -- Xarax

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I was really really tempted to map our new apartment with DR...

 

Actually, using DR is still a good idea, probably needs a few textures, tho... hohum.

 

Now that would be a sweet project. Making a TDM version of your home.

|=-=------=-=|

happycheeze.deviantart.com

 

Moddb

 

Gamers Outreach, a nonprofit that uses videogames to raise money for chairty.

|=-=------=-=|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recent Status Updates

    • snatcher

      TDM Modpack v3.8 released!
      Introducing the SHOCK MINE!
      · 1 reply
    • JackFarmer

      If you find the new Beatles song "Now and Then", which was created with the help of AI, totally boring, then you should better play the mission of the same name by our esteemed mission maker friend joebarnin, because the latter is actually a creative milestone!
      · 4 replies
    • datiswous

      Idea: Thief 3 style missions.
      One of the great features of Thief 3 are missions defided in small segments with loading screens when you move from segment to segment. We all miss those right? I was thinking of mapping only horizontal, so not stacked. When you go up or down (stairs or elevator), you get a 20 seconds fake loading screen where you can play a minigame (The Builder's Blocks?). After that you get teleported to a different area that seems to be on top of the first, but actually isn't in the map file. It's much easier mapping, because you can see everything in one glance from above. This could also give more freedom building, because it doesn't have to fit. Everything is predictable because guards don't move to different sections.
      This could be used for the Thief 3 contest possibly..
      · 7 replies
    • datiswous

      Just found out by accident how to change the tittle of a topic you made. You long-click (2 seconds) on a topic tittle, then you get an edit dialog to change the topic title.
      The other way I know of is to edit the first post.
       
      · 0 replies
    • datiswous

      I always find it kind of strange that in DR you can't apply spawnargs on specific brushes (I think), but you can apply textures. But those are not listed as spawnargs, so they're difficult to see except if you select the brush and go into the Surface inspector.
      Wouldn't it be easier if DR would list textures for every seperate brush in the entity view?
      · 2 replies
×
×
  • Create New...